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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:49 am 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
Son Of Willie The Pimp wrote:
The bonus stuff on Uncle Meat deserves to be underrated.
They suck and they don't belong there amidst the other tracks. :P

The original Uncle Meat = masterpiece.
Uncle Meat w/ bonus tracks = flawed masterpiece.


And I can't say I disagree.

What infuriates me more than those bonus tracks themselves is the fact that you could easily have all the original UM material on just ONE CD! But noooo, there has to be those redundant chunks that make up 50 minutes or so and thus you have a 2cd re-release. Rip-off. God, what was FZ thinking when he opted for all the blatant revisionist tactics in the 80s.


I'm sorry guys, but i'm going to defend the bonus tracks. They are fun and entertaining and everyone in it is so positive and free. I think the girl with the new england accent is so cute sounding, and the hillbilly is funny. And I can sit and listen to that sexy italian singing Tanta over and over. I think they add a great deal to the over-all album. And King Kong kicks ass. 8)

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:18 am 
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Well, King Kong was part of the original album though.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:51 pm 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
Well, King Kong was part of the original album though.


i know that, Ayb. But it was put on disc-2 with the other material. :P

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:06 pm 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
I don't like OS. I delete it from my computer.

What are you doing about george duke playing ?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:12 pm 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
I don't like OS. I delete it from my computer.


I rather kick off XP and reinstall Windows '95 than deleting ANY Zappa from my hd.
(that rhymes!)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:29 pm 
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nico wrote:
Aybe Sea wrote:
I don't like OS. I delete it from my computer.

What are you doing about george duke playing ?


Oh i've got live bootlegs for hearing GD playing (np: 10-26-73 show, in particular: lounge-jazz version of "Inca Roads").


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:33 am 
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erica wrote:
Aybe Sea wrote:
Son Of Willie The Pimp wrote:
The bonus stuff on Uncle Meat deserves to be underrated.
They suck and they don't belong there amidst the other tracks. :P

The original Uncle Meat = masterpiece.
Uncle Meat w/ bonus tracks = flawed masterpiece.


And I can't say I disagree.

What infuriates me more than those bonus tracks themselves is the fact that you could easily have all the original UM material on just ONE CD! But noooo, there has to be those redundant chunks that make up 50 minutes or so and thus you have a 2cd re-release. Rip-off. God, what was FZ thinking when he opted for all the blatant revisionist tactics in the 80s.


I'm sorry guys, but i'm going to defend the bonus tracks. They are fun and entertaining and everyone in it is so positive and free. I think the girl with the new england accent is so cute sounding, and the hillbilly is funny. And I can sit and listen to that sexy italian singing Tanta over and over. I think they add a great deal to the over-all album. And King Kong kicks ass. 8)


Well in a topic I started a while ago on Uncle Meat, someone stated that back in the '80s UM couldn't be released on just one CD because 80-minute CD's were not available back then.

With that in mind I think Zappa made a good choice by adding something to the album instead of omitting something. The latter would have pissed off more fans than the Film Excerpt Tracks.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:28 am 
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Sy Borg wrote:
With that in mind I think Zappa made a good choice by adding something to the album instead of omitting something. The latter would have pissed off more fans than the Film Excerpt Tracks.


I see your point, but then again, many who are familiar with the Uncle Meat album would also agree there already is some filler on UM album too, such as the Creamcheese dialog or the bad live recordings ("Louie Louie") or even dissonant noodling ("We can shoot you"). If FZ had omitted stuff like that, it would've been revisionist too, but maybe some wouldn't have missed those filler bits?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:28 am 
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They should add a 3rd CD, and mix in some Pat Boone and Perry Como, and a long George Bush speech.
:evil: :twisted:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:40 pm 
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Sy Borg wrote:
Well in a topic I started a while ago on Uncle Meat, someone stated that back in the '80s UM couldn't be released on just one CD because 80-minute CD's were not available back then.

Yes, that thread inspired me to burn my own one disc version of Uncle Meat. It's very handy.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:51 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
Sy Borg wrote:
Well in a topic I started a while ago on Uncle Meat, someone stated that back in the '80s UM couldn't be released on just one CD because 80-minute CD's were not available back then.

Yes, that thread inspired me to burn my own one disc version of Uncle Meat. It's very handy.


Yes, that thread inspired me to burn my own dick...uh, disc....Uncle Meat is very handy. :twisted:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:54 pm 
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Son Of Willie The Pimp wrote:

I rather kick off XP and reinstall Windows '95 than deleting ANY Zappa from my hd.
(that rhymes!)


NO IT DOESN'T!! :evil: :evil:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:59 pm 
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erica wrote:
I'm sorry guys, but i'm going to defend the bonus tracks. They are fun and entertaining and everyone in it is so positive and free. I think the girl with the new england accent is so cute sounding, and the hillbilly is funny. And I can sit and listen to that sexy italian singing Tanta over and over. I think they add a great deal to the over-all album. And King Kong kicks ass. 8)


So, Erica.....it's safe to say you like "Uncle Meat"? :twisted:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:12 pm 
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SHUT THE FUCK UP :evil:


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pedro1 wrote:
SHUT THE FUCK UP :evil:


You must be a REPUBLICAN!! :evil:

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Aybe Sea wrote:
Sy Borg wrote:
With that in mind I think Zappa made a good choice by adding something to the album instead of omitting something. The latter would have pissed off more fans than the Film Excerpt Tracks.


I see your point, but then again, many who are familiar with the Uncle Meat album would also agree there already is some filler on UM album too, such as the Creamcheese dialog or the bad live recordings ("Louie Louie") or even dissonant noodling ("We can shoot you"). If FZ had omitted stuff like that, it would've been revisionist too, but maybe some wouldn't have missed those filler bits?


Lumpy Gravy is equally guilty of these things, but people are more hesitant to jump on them in that context...maybe because they're split into 'tracks' here?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:28 pm 
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Sy Borg wrote:
With that in mind I think Zappa made a good choice by adding something to the album instead of omitting something. The latter would have pissed off more fans than the Film Excerpt Tracks.

Aybe Sea wrote:
I see your point, but then again, many who are familiar with the Uncle Meat album would also agree there already is some filler on UM album too, such as the Creamcheese dialog or the bad live recordings ("Louie Louie") or even dissonant noodling ("We can shoot you"). If FZ had omitted stuff like that, it would've been revisionist too, but maybe some wouldn't have missed those filler bits?


fillers on 'uncle meat'? no way.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:24 pm 
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FeralCats wrote:
Aybe Sea wrote:
Sy Borg wrote:
With that in mind I think Zappa made a good choice by adding something to the album instead of omitting something. The latter would have pissed off more fans than the Film Excerpt Tracks.


I see your point, but then again, many who are familiar with the Uncle Meat album would also agree there already is some filler on UM album too, such as the Creamcheese dialog or the bad live recordings ("Louie Louie") or even dissonant noodling ("We can shoot you"). If FZ had omitted stuff like that, it would've been revisionist too, but maybe some wouldn't have missed those filler bits?


Lumpy Gravy is equally guilty of these things, but people are more hesitant to jump on them in that context...maybe because they're split into 'tracks' here?


I gotta jump in here.
The whole collection of releases can be seen as one big piece completed by the maestro. Everything from Freak Out! to Civilization Phase III is one big piece of art. This is the sand-box (you can call it a piano) that the whole conceptual continuity 'project/object' fits in [I think there are several . . .]. One of the really audacious things frank did was to call all of it music: the spoken word stuff, the 'dissonant noodling' as someone called it, the doo-wop, the rock, the jazz, the classical and synclavier works: all music. Some of it composed, some of it improvised, some of it mistake, but all of it music. It used to be, the generational difference was exposed by the elders often saying things like 'you call that music?' . . . and it has been a mark of the younger generations to always cleave unto a kind of music that would naturally be despised by the elder generation. but Frank -- probably inspired by Varese or Cage-- thought, why can't it all be music? and why can't you put a little bit of this right up next to a little bit of that? and why not make it all so big that it can take in everything? If music is harmony and rhythm and dischord and dissonance, cut up and mixed around -- not unlike a polyglot or extremely diverse neighborhood of different cultures --
then, well, wouldn't that be interesting?, instead of the same old, 4/4 or I - IV-V or whatever it was your parents were into, etc, you could mix it up, a LOT, everybody liking the bits they liked and being exposed to the other bits and having to learn how to DEAL with it, since you had to hear it, you paid for the ticket, right? Even tho, frank knew that those who REALLY couldn't deal with it, weren't patient enough to sit it out til the next bit they might like came around and like, walked out would probably tell all their friends how much it sucked with a vehemence that would make many people at least remember the name and maybe later want to check it out. But it's all music, just maybe not the season for the bit you might like. And the body of work is SO FREAKING HUGE so it DOES come around, and then ya start noticin the conceptual continuity bits that 'tie the whole body of work together' -- like it says in one of the linernotes-- and which help stitch it up tight. and it becomes this weird, huge organic whole . . . that continues to grow in this weird way. Like this, just a random stream of conciousness -- tying the bits together -- trying to make sense of it and seeing how every bit, every player, every recorded track as there for a REASON. If only that was merely a momentary whim, but essential, cuz without it, it's not the whole piece, or something. Maybe that's just me :wink:

but these were just a bunch of random thoughts I had, just a little something to keep me going from day to day

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:31 pm 
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matt groening: do you rank your music in any kind of hierarchy?
do you consider the rock and roll stuff inferior to the classical stuff?

frank zappa: no.

matt groening: it's all the same?

frank zappa: it's a different aspect of the same thing. I've got an imagination.
so I earn a living by producing merchandisable manifestations of portions of my imagination.

1992

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:56 pm 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
Sy Borg wrote:
With that in mind I think Zappa made a good choice by adding something to the album instead of omitting something. The latter would have pissed off more fans than the Film Excerpt Tracks.

Aybe Sea wrote:
I see your point, but then again, many who are familiar with the Uncle Meat album would also agree there already is some filler on UM album too, such as the Creamcheese dialog or the bad live recordings ("Louie Louie") or even dissonant noodling ("We can shoot you"). If FZ had omitted stuff like that, it would've been revisionist too, but maybe some wouldn't have missed those filler bits?


fillers on 'uncle meat'? no way.


So i figure you listen to the stuff like "God Bless America" or "Bizarre Relationship" as well? When I want my Uncle Meat fix, I usually go after the true meat of the album: King Kong, UM, Dog Breath, Pound (and their variations) and a few other songs. I regard Burnt Weeny Sandwich a lot more cohesive record, although I agree that UM is one hell of an eclectic mindfuck.

I was mainly arguing that would've FZ fans really noted the absense of stuff like "...living in california", or more fanatically still, would it have pissed them off as much as the penalty tracks on 2nd CD did?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 10:28 pm 
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sure, I'm suggesting looking at the work not as something judged singly, track by track, but as a whole, like he did:
each track is it's own thing, surely, and each track fits where it was placed by the maestro. I grew up on album-oriented radio and appreciate that's the world frank released stuff in, so things like FO! and LG and burnt weeny sandwich ARE very cohesive units, but you can see uncle meat as basically an unfinished work, which it was when it came out -- the music for a movie they hadn't finished yet.
I see 3 uncle meats:
the original 2-record set,
the movie that came out in the '80's and woefully under-distributed and
the 2cd version.
I can judge them individually as separate 'units' in the overall body of work and compare them as such, but also see them as three parts of another whole, which is Uncle Meat.
The inclusion in the '80's of more pieces with the 2cd version which were recorded in the '80's AND the film excerpts strikes me as yes, another of Frank's idiosyncracies, adding chunks of this or that to an old decayed master and spiffing it up with what was then new technology AND acting as a bridge between the original uncle meat and the film version, to me, is typical Frank. But see that's another bias of mine, trying to see Frank's vision rather than my own interpretation. His work, not mine. :) It's also typical that he would put Tengo Na Mincia Tanta ['I've got a big bunch of dick'] in a collective stew like Uncle Meat. It seems like a big joke to me.

maybe we're dancing with apples and oranges here

of course, I listen to all the early records on vinyl or digital rips of vinyl, because I recognise the seemlessness of particularly those early records so that a whole record side becomes it's own unit, much as he designed them, when he could. And with Uncle Meat, he sure did!!!!!!!!!! :)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:36 pm 
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Uncle Meat? I agree with punknaynowned in that UM is a total piece. When I was getting into FZ 30 years ago I really enjoyed that aspect of his albums, that they weren't just track lists, the way they were more like movies. Sometimes, I still like to listen to them right through. Nowadays I am more focussed on individual pieces like the ones Aybe Sea has listed above, but I can't agree with Aybe's opinion on cutting some of those pieces out.

Whether you like it or not, Uncle Meat is an intgerated whole and it is no less cohesive than Burnt Weenie Sandwich. Even if I do like to listen to individual tracks, you can make your own compilations but I believe the albums themselves shouldn't be messed with.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:01 pm 
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I'm sorry if I sounded like i was advocating cutting out the more extra-musical stuff off UM. I was just trying to understand which really is worse in terms of being more offensive to Zappaphiles: adding nearly another CD worth of film dialog or cutting back some of the original noise?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:22 pm 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
fillers on 'uncle meat'? no way.


I'd fill 'er with 'Uncle Meat'!! :twisted:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:25 pm 
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punknaynowned wrote:
One of the really audacious things frank did was to call all of it music: the spoken word stuff, the 'dissonant noodling' as someone called it, the doo-wop, the rock, the jazz, the classical and synclavier works


Don't forget the BEER FARTS..... :twisted:

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