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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:32 pm 
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The New Vaudeville Band won a Grammy for Winchester Cathedral. Against Good Vibrations. FTGrammys.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:31 am 
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wakawazooinregalia' wrote:
Opus131 wrote:
Zappa did have an habit of starting off some of his albums with rather conventional sounding tunes

Yeah, like Plastic People or Didja Get any Onya. :P Well I must give you the reason because they 2, Uncle Meat and Are You Hung Up are the only exceptions I can think of right now. :wink:


"For Calvin" is another example of Zappa putting the least listener-friendly song first. (He seems to have had second thoughts about it since some CDs start with "The Grand Wazoo" instead.)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:08 pm 
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pbuzby wrote:
wakawazooinregalia' wrote:
Opus131 wrote:
Zappa did have an habit of starting off some of his albums with rather conventional sounding tunes

Yeah, like Plastic People or Didja Get any Onya. :P Well I must give you the reason because they 2, Uncle Meat and Are You Hung Up are the only exceptions I can think of right now. :wink:


"For Calvin" is another example of Zappa putting the least listener-friendly song first. (He seems to have had second thoughts about it since some CDs start with "The Grand Wazoo" instead.)

As far as i know the original album started with the (more accesible) title track. It was the first (and maybe the following) CD-release(s) that started wiith Calvin.

My first album was Does humor belong in music. It is not discussed very much here, so maybe i might call it underrated. After a long series of albums that were dominated by songs with vocals and mostly only FZ himself as instrumental soloist this album offers lots of stunning solo work by the band mates.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:16 pm 
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ursinator wrote:
My first album was Does humor belong in music. It is not discussed very much here, so maybe i might call it underrated. After a long series of albums that were dominated by songs with vocals and mostly only FZ himself as instrumental soloist this album offers lots of stunning solo work by the band mates.

I have never heard it, but it seems good.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:23 pm 
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ursinator wrote:
As far as i know the original album started with the (more accesible) title track. It was the first (and maybe the following) CD-release(s) that started wiith Calvin.


The Bizarre LP and 1986 Ryko CD both start with "For Calvin." (I own the LP, used to own the CD.)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:49 pm 
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Opus131 wrote:
I was just listening to Make a Jazz Noise, and i'd argue that whatever was lost in 82-84 was regained in 88.

I agree 100%.

pbuzby wrote:
Give Guitar another try sometime. I didn't care much for it at first, but it has subtler pleasures than the Shut Up sets. Pay attention to Scott Thunes's bass, especially on the 1984 tracks.

Good point. Thunes is amazing. I really paid most attention to the guitar because, well, it's the Guitar album. I picked up on the drums and keys a lot as well and that didn't help. I suppose maybe I prefer less fastidious drumming and I dislike the 80s keyboard sounds in general. Listening to Thunes is a whole new approach to this album.

pbuzby wrote:
"For Calvin" is another example of Zappa putting the least listener-friendly song first.

I'm curious what your other examples might be.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:16 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:

pbuzby wrote:
"For Calvin" is another example of Zappa putting the least listener-friendly song first.

I'm curious what your other examples might be.


Hmm. "Wind Up Working At A Gas Station"?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:33 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
I'm curious what your other examples might be.

WPLJ, obviously.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:01 pm 
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You Are What You Is and Thing-Fish. I can barely even wrap my head around what Frank did on those two albums. Freakin' stellar, and definitely underrated.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:17 am 
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wakawazooinregalia' wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
I'm curious what your other examples might be.

WPLJ, obviously.


Plastic People is very very unconventional! I also know people that really can't stand No Not Now! I love that song dearly though.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:50 am 
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So here's a tentative list of less listener friendly album openers.

Plastic People (arguably)
Are You Hung Up (but perhaps it can simply be dismissed as an "intro" track)
Didja Get Any Onya
For Calvin and His Next Two Hitchhikers (original Grand Wazoo LP)
Debra Kadabra
Filthy Habits (well, according to George Starostin anyway, he can't stand these "police siren" guitars)
EDIT: The Perfect Stranger's title track also makes for the most challenging listen of all seven compositions. At least The Yellow Shark proper began with Dog/Meat.

As you can see, the list is very short indeed.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:37 am 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
So here's a tentative list of less listener friendly album openers.

Plastic People (arguably)
Are You Hung Up (but perhaps it can simply be dismissed as an "intro" track)
Didja Get Any Onya
For Calvin and His Next Two Hitchhikers (original Grand Wazoo LP)
Debra Kadabra
Filthy Habits (well, according to George Starostin anyway, he can't stand these "police siren" guitars)
EDIT: The Perfect Stranger's title track also makes for the most challenging listen of all seven compositions. At least The Yellow Shark proper began with Dog/Meat.

As you can see, the list is very short indeed.

Uncle Meat is not friendly. Transylvania Boogie neither. And Inca Roads.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:56 am 
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wakawazooinregalia' wrote:
Uncle Meat is not friendly. Transylvania Boogie neither. And Inca Roads.


Inca is the most friendly of those three, especially for 1975 with the rise of high concept Prog.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:32 pm 
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NuclearProstate wrote:
wakawazooinregalia' wrote:
Uncle Meat is not friendly. Transylvania Boogie neither. And Inca Roads.


Inca is the most friendly of those three, especially for 1975 with the rise of high concept Prog.

But the rest of the album is more friendly. Also, Greggery would be another case.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:14 pm 
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You're getting into some murky water now.

It's difficult for Zappa fans to objectively determine which Zappa album openers the average listener would find easiest to identify with. I like the concept, though.
Of the ones mentioned I'd say Are You Hung Up is the most likely to be skipped over. Keep in mind that Who Needs The Peace Corps is one of my favorite songs.
And Debra Kadabra is certainly not intended for mass appeal. It also precedes one of the greatest songs of all time.

It's funny, Ed.... before I asked you the question, Gas Station was the only song I could think of and that was what you said in your initial response.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:13 am 
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Billy The Mountain?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:46 am 
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pbuzby wrote:
Billy The Mountain?

I guess it has to be the most challenging of the album.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:59 am 
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ursinator wrote:
My first album was Does humor belong in music. It is not discussed very much here, so maybe i might call it underrated. After a long series of albums that were dominated by songs with vocals and mostly only FZ himself as instrumental soloist this album offers lots of stunning solo work by the band mates.


Absolutely, it's one of the few 80s albums I often go back to. It's been trashed for not having any new songs, but they're all great takes.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:41 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
You're getting into some murky water now.

It's difficult for Zappa fans to objectively determine which Zappa album openers the average listener would find easiest to identify with. I like the concept, though.
Of the ones mentioned I'd say Are You Hung Up is the most likely to be skipped over. Keep in mind that Who Needs The Peace Corps is one of my favorite songs.
And Debra Kadabra is certainly not intended for mass appeal. It also precedes one of the greatest songs of all time.

It's funny, Ed.... before I asked you the question, Gas Station was the only song I could think of and that was what you said in your initial response.


this whole topic is fucking stupid!!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:12 pm 
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Wow. Stupidity. What a concept!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:58 pm 
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NuclearProstate wrote:
wakawazooinregalia' wrote:
Uncle Meat is not friendly. Transylvania Boogie neither. And Inca Roads.


Inca is the most friendly of those three, especially for 1975 with the rise of high concept Prog.


Kelly Fisher Lowe writes in "The Words and Music of Frank Zappa" that "Inca Roads", along with other proggy tunes on OSFA, avoids some of the difficulties in previous Zappa work. And I kind of agree, "Inca Roads" is definitely more accessible than the likes of "The Eric Dolphy Memorial Barbecue" or "For Calvin and His Next Two Hitch-Hikers".

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:57 pm 
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jaypfunk wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
You're getting into some murky water now.

It's difficult for Zappa fans to objectively determine which Zappa album openers the average listener would find easiest to identify with. I like the concept, though.
Of the ones mentioned I'd say Are You Hung Up is the most likely to be skipped over. Keep in mind that Who Needs The Peace Corps is one of my favorite songs.
And Debra Kadabra is certainly not intended for mass appeal. It also precedes one of the greatest songs of all time.

It's funny, Ed.... before I asked you the question, Gas Station was the only song I could think of and that was what you said in your initial response.


this whole topic is fucking stupid!!


Ain't you a big ole ray of fucking sunshine? I was looking through the view new posts, and didn't see any threads authored by you. What would you like to discuss wise elder of the forum? Please tell us what to discuss on the Zappa forum, besides Zappa? Politics don't work, and there's only a handful of people on here who truly care what is happening in each other's lives.

@ downer
I agree with you on the Debra Kadabra statement


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:51 am 
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Okay so it's not his most underrated but most people do deem it rather average to just good. But god damn BROADWAY THE HARD WAY is just fucking killer. The CD version especially.
This is probably one of my most spun albums at work due to the fact it is so damn musical! Singable and lots of fun.

The only weaker tracks to me are Jezebel Boy and Promiscuous but then again the line "Don't blow Jimmy, don't blow Bobby. Get yourself another hobby" Gets me every single time.

How can anyone not just love all the musical themes and quotes in Rhymin' Man or those beautiful horns in Hot Plate Heaven????

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:05 am 
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Philostopher wrote:

Ain't you a big ole ray of fucking sunshine? I was looking through the view new posts, and didn't see any threads authored by you. What would you like to discuss wise elder of the forum? Please tell us what to discuss on the Zappa forum, besides Zappa? Politics don't work, and there's only a handful of people on here who truly care what is happening in each other's lives.


Dear Phil, dear Phil... things that are pointless in this world are plenty: broken pencil, watching a movie for the second time, life itself... this entire forum is pretty pointless as well. But one of the still more pointless activities here is arguing with jaypfunk. Save yourself the typing and the frustration and put him on ignore.

On this forum, Ship gets very underrated. It's one album I gave a lot of airtime, it being my first non-compilation FZ album, and I love it very very very much because of that and because all the songs on it are really very awesome. However there appears to be a mass hatred towards Valley Girl here, so for as far as this place goes, my vote is for Ship.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:22 am 
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I know BBP. I didn't lose any sleep over it last night. :wink:

Ship Arriving gets a lot of airtime here too, and I never skip "Valley Girl" either.


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