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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 2:54 pm 
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I too must take issue with Aybe. I find Apostrophe, for the most part, to be either dull or obnoxious beyond belief. I'll take sexual humor over potty jokes any day. I also think that, from an instrumental standpoint, OS is a perfectly valid entry in FZ's canon, regardless of whatever objection you may have with the lyrics.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:26 pm 
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Given that the majority of FZ fans dig his solos, regardless of what else they get out of his music, try comparing Overnite Sensation and Apostophe minus the guitar solos. Funny thing is, I tried that and I'm not sure which is best, although previously I would have chosen Apostophe but not necessarily because of the solos. This discussion has just got me looking a little deeper into the decision.

And the other thing, by who is it underrated? By Zappa fans or the public at large? And what exactly do we mean by Zappa fan? Given the significant variations in sales figures for his albums, we can assume that some people only buy a few of his albums. If Apostophe is one of the most popular, how can it be underrated?

And I can't agree with Aybe Sea about Zomby Woof, for me that's one of the best tracks on OS, even without the solo.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:56 pm 
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CarvinAbuser wrote:
Over-Nite Sensation
Ahead Of Their Time
Chunga's Revenge
Burnt Weeny Sandwich


Over-nite Sensation was a major success, commercially. That success gave frank the $ his bank balance needed.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:59 pm 
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I'm interested to hear from Zappa 'offianados' which album's they think are underrated. Thank you everyone for your answers. The 'Thingfish' responses are interesting.


Last edited by Eric Vaxxine on Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:00 pm 
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Waka/jawaka!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:15 pm 
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200 motels has many unrecognised gems.

I regularly visit Stricly Genteel on YouTube to hear Bikels opening dialogue and singing.
'Lord have mercy on the people in England for the terrible food, these people must eat. And may the Lord have Mercy on the fate of this movie ..etc etc


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:15 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
And the other thing, by who is it underrated? By Zappa fans or the public at large? And what exactly do we mean by Zappa fan? Given the significant variations in sales figures for his albums, we can assume that some people only buy a few of his albums. If Apostophe is one of the most popular, how can it be underrated?


exactly. by not giving any reference as to why a certain album is considered underrated, and by whom, this topic is totally pointless.

MentalTossFlycoon wrote:
Okay; now name one that isn't underrated...

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:57 pm 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
polydigm wrote:
And the other thing, by who is it underrated? By Zappa fans or the public at large? And what exactly do we mean by Zappa fan? Given the significant variations in sales figures for his albums, we can assume that some people only buy a few of his albums. If Apostophe is one of the most popular, how can it be underrated?


exactly. by not giving any reference as to why a certain album is considered underrated, and by whom, this topic is totally pointless.

MentalTossFlycoon wrote:
Okay; now name one that isn't underrated...


I agree with Polydigm & Lumpy Gravy that the criteria that this thread is based on is vague at best.

I think the 80's remix versions of Were Only In It For The Money & Ruben & Tha Jets are underrated though I might be in the minority on these opinion-wise.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:32 am 
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FeralCats wrote:
I don't follow. Hot Rats is a very colorful album, I don't see why anyone with an open mind would expect it to be homogenized in anyway.


Right. I was more commenting on the way Hot Rats is in one particular style, jazz-rock/fusion that is. And Overnite sensation follows the prog/funk/fusion formula throughout the entire record, yet it isn't as captivating as HR. HR at least ran gamut from concise thoughtful short songs like "Little Umbrellas" to the lengthy jams like "Gumbo". OS pretty much sticks to one particular formula throughout. the combination of funk/fusion rhythms, typical hard guitar sound and silly lyrics.

Quote:
Camarillo, Dirty Love, Dynamo (Dynamo and Dirty Love especially) are a revelation of what all those guys on the radio when singing about 'love' and such REALLY want. 50/50 is Zappa's statement to the fans that must have come along with the album. "I'm not safe, but if you're brave, come on." Then Zomby and Montana are the two 'complex' things on the album, to counteract...give them a taste of what more to expect. They're still much more conventional then much of his stuff, but it's pretty out there regardless.


So how does "I'm The Slime" fit in the picture?

Quote:
'Apostrophe' as a track is one of the only Zappa instrumentals I don't like. It's boring..it's a very basic jam, I think. The solo's are good, but..the track just sort of appears than dissappears.


I wonder what's your opinion on "Down In De Dew" off "Läther"?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:36 am 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
CarvinAbuser wrote:
Over-Nite Sensation
Ahead Of Their Time
Chunga's Revenge
Burnt Weeny Sandwich


Explain the first, please. Methinks it's au contraire: over-rated.


I like OS because I spend lot of money to buy the Frank Zappa Musicâ„¢... arf

I don't caculate but I spent more than 0.2x $ and I'm not a musician just a modest guy who listen to OS...

If you bought the MOFO pre-order why you ask to explain ?

LG given the solution, just buy the RYKO edition and it's enough :!:

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:53 am 
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I don't follow.

What does spending money on FZ' discography have to do with preference of some albums over others?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:15 am 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
I don't follow.

What does spending money on FZ' discography have to do with preference of some albums over others?

Because you use bittorents basis knowledge to criticize a Zappa Album. OS brought money that enable people like you to listen shows... So it could be over-rated but to write it is pretty excessive but I agree OS isn't the best of course :D

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:52 am 
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I don't know about others, but i've never downloaded a single FZ thing via BitTorrent (ok, save for 200 motels movie).

and also, to put down the way i've supposedly downloaded an album and then based my opinion on it, is actually circumstantial ad hominem fallacy. rather than attack my argumentation, i'm accused of deviating from some preconceived idea that only those who buy albums are adequate to judge an album. if i want to buy an album i have to hear it first.

Let's see: I download both OS and Grand Wazoo.

I don't like OS. I delete it from my computer.
I love GW. I give in an order for it from a record store and some days later i'll pay for the physical copy of the album.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:39 am 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
I don't know about others, but i've never downloaded a single FZ thing via BitTorrent (ok, save for 200 motels movie).

and also, to put down the way i've supposedly downloaded an album and then based my opinion on it, is actually circumstantial ad hominem fallacy. rather than attack my argumentation, i'm accused of deviating from some preconceived idea that only those who buy albums are adequate to judge an album. if i want to buy an album i have to hear it first.

Let's see: I download both OS and Grand Wazoo.

I don't like OS. I delete it from my computer.
I love GW. I give in an order for it from a record store and some days later i'll pay for the physical copy of the album.


I bet a lot that you are US resident. Because in Europe if you proceed with this kind of behavior, you will have serious problems.

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Last edited by nico on Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:41 am 
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That's right!

I do have a serious problem!

FZ' records aren't DISTRIBUTED here! (in Estonia that is)

And I don't fucking have a credit card to order stuff online.

That's my problem.

Fortunately, there are some FZ' records in my university library.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:04 pm 
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'I'm The Slime' is the cynical look that the public who first look at Zappa need to realize he's not just out for laughs, he's out for your gut.

"Down In De Dew" was an Apostrophe out take, wasn't it? I really love that one-I cannot for the life of me see why it was taken out but 'Apostrophe' was left in. Everything about that one is perfect.

Anyway, just some healthy discussion. I can understand why people who only have 'Apostrophe' don't come back for more Frank.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:44 pm 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
polydigm wrote:
And the other thing, by who is it underrated? By Zappa fans or the public at large? And what exactly do we mean by Zappa fan? Given the significant variations in sales figures for his albums, we can assume that some people only buy a few of his albums. If Apostophe is one of the most popular, how can it be underrated?


exactly. by not giving any reference as to why a certain album is considered underrated, and by whom, this topic is totally pointless.

MentalTossFlycoon wrote:
Okay; now name one that isn't underrated...


I take your point about underration of FZ output being totally subjective.
Perhaps someone has a list of the best selling albums in terms of $/units.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:58 pm 
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Eric Vaxxine wrote:
I take your point about underration of FZ output being totally subjective.
Perhaps someone has a list of the best selling albums in terms of $/units.


In 1992, Zappa said that his best selling album was Sheik Yerbouti.

In some people's eyes that probably makes it overrated...

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:05 pm 
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aybe sea wrote:
...I don't fucking have a credit card to order stuff online ...

ever heard of an int'l money order or cash in a registered letter ¿ no online c.c. transactions for me ever

aybe sea wrote:
...FZ' records aren't DISTRIBUTED here! (in Estonia that is)...

do you know afka1348 a.k.a. avo raup ¿ he disappeared from ebay after the fz show at your national museum a few months ago

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:18 pm 
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The music is varied, it has both vocal and instrumental and it represents his attention to detail


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:56 pm 
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All of Zappa's records are under-rated.
but I'll play
zoot allures,
burnt weeny sandwich,
the Jean Luc Ponty album King Kong,
all 'orchestral' releases
Joe's Corsaga

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:18 am 
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I would like to know why people don't like Tinseltown Rebellion.
Every song is fantastic, Vinnie is fantastic, Tommy Mars is fantastic, FZ plays some great solos, Bob Harris' vocals is very funny and the whole feeling of the album is GREAT.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:17 am 
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Tinseltown_Banana wrote:
I would like to know why people don't like Tinseltown Rebellion.
Every song is fantastic, Vinnie is fantastic, Tommy Mars is fantastic, FZ plays some great solos, Bob Harris' vocals is very funny and the whole feeling of the album is GREAT.


I love it!

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:49 pm 
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Tinseltown_Banana wrote:
I would like to know why people don't like Tinseltown Rebellion.


Why I don't like it?

I hate the 80sized renditions of "Brown Shoes" and "Peaches". Those songs were already brilliant in the sixties, thank you. These two songs epitomized the genius of 60s FZ very well and are true classics. If it ain't broke, don't fix it with 80s production values. The result can only be unlistenable trash.

One thing else completely wrong: too many guitarists, too many synthesizers (and lame ones at that). I generally don't like Zappa when there's more than one keyboard and/or more than one backup guitar for FZ.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:31 pm 
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Aybe Sea wrote:
... I hate the 80sized renditions of "Brown Shoes" and "Peaches". Those songs were already brilliant in the sixties, thank you. These two songs epitomized the genius of 60s FZ very well and are true classics. If it ain't broke, don't fix it with 80s production values ...

You surely can't be saying that FZ should only ever have performed any of his compositions once, so, when he was playing a 60s composition in the 80s, with whatever band he had assembled at any given time, why would he want to imitate the production on Absolutely Free?

Aybe Sea wrote:
... The result can only be unlistenable trash ...

Wow, that's a strong opinion. Personally, I much prefer the Tinsel Town Rebellion version of Brown Shoes Don't Make It, whereas I like all the versions of Peaches En Regalia, but then, the earliest Peaches En Regalia is on Hot Rats. Burnt Weeny Sandwich is my favourite of the early Mothers with Weasels Ripped My Flesh not far behind. I view those early Zappa albums as formative, not definitive and listen to later albums from Hot Rats and beyond much more often. It was a real bonus when Spencer Chrislu remastered Tinsel Town Rebellion.

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