Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:17 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 301 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 13  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 3:57 pm 
Offline
Banned
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:40 pm
Posts: 2342
Tinseltown_Banana wrote:
I would like to know why people don't like Tinseltown Rebellion.
Every song is fantastic, Vinnie is fantastic, Tommy Mars is fantastic, FZ plays some great solos, Bob Harris' vocals is very funny and the whole feeling of the album is GREAT.


I love Tinseltown.

Great album. Highly underrated.

I agree about the "feeling".


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:21 pm
Posts: 467
Theodore Bikel's narrative and singing at the beginning of 'Strictly Genteel' from 200 Motels (see it on YouTube) and the following Chorus singing and soprano vocal moves me.
(...and may the Lord, have mercy, on the fate of this movie...)

Tunes like 'She painted up her face' and 'Daddy Daddy Daddy' are perhaps also forgotton.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:54 am
Posts: 239
Aybe Sea wrote:
Tinseltown_Banana wrote:
I would like to know why people don't like Tinseltown Rebellion.


Why I don't like it?

I hate the 80sized renditions of "Brown Shoes" and "Peaches". Those songs were already brilliant in the sixties, thank you. These two songs epitomized the genius of 60s FZ very well and are true classics. If it ain't broke, don't fix it with 80s production values. The result can only be unlistenable trash.

One thing else completely wrong: too many guitarists, too many synthesizers (and lame ones at that). I generally don't like Zappa when there's more than one keyboard and/or more than one backup guitar for FZ.


Well, I disagree. I think Brown Shoes and Ain't Got No Heart are better than the originals. I've never understood why people don't like FZ using a lot of synths. I like those sounds....

And what I like about Tinseltown Rebellion is the way FZ handles the "love songs". I love that humorous cruelty and sarcasm!

_________________
Music is the best. Music composed by FZ is the very best!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:52 am
Posts: 1233
polydigm wrote:
Aybe Sea wrote:
... I hate the 80sized renditions of "Brown Shoes" and "Peaches". Those songs were already brilliant in the sixties, thank you. These two songs epitomized the genius of 60s FZ very well and are true classics. If it ain't broke, don't fix it with 80s production values ...

You surely can't be saying that FZ should only ever have performed any of his compositions once, so, when he was playing a 60s composition in the 80s, with whatever band he had assembled at any given time, why would he want to imitate the production on Absolutely Free?


Not quite so, really. The '73 band certainly didn't attempt to play it just as on AF. This band was a lot tighter unit than the original MOI and they did the tune justice. This version deserves to be released one fine day. However, 80s were a crap era for many rock stalwarts and alas, some of the bad sounds from that era crop up on many FZ' recordings from the era. This isn't a criticism of musicians or even his 80s compositions, just the observations of the sounds, which have an artificial aspect to them.


Last edited by Aybe Sea on Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 2:47 am
Posts: 3361
Location: Netherlands
It's all in the ear of the beholder, I guess... I'm not too fond of stereotypical 80s digital keys and drums either, but on the other hand... some people don't like Moogs, Clavinets, Fender Rhodes or wah wah-pedals because they sound 'too 70s' and make everything sound like the backing music to a Starsky and Hutch episode or a 70s cop movie.

Anyway, Tinseltown Rebellion is not amongst my favorite FZ albums, but on the other hand, you can't really argue with the level of musicianship on display on that album. I'd say it sounds decent despite the dated sounds.

_________________
"When you hear music, after it's over, it's gone in the air. You can never capture it again." -- Eric Dolphy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:53 am
Posts: 734
Location: Antarctica
I don't understand why this thread had to derail into a 'like/dislike' bitchfest, but I'm gonna get it back sur le voie! :)

The most underrated is, imo, The Man From Utopia.

Oh... btw, I prefer Apostrophe' over OS and think TR is brilliant! :wink:

_________________
ImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:13 am
Posts: 2271
Location: englandia
just to be pedantic, the Brown Shoes and Peaches on TTR were actually recorded in 1979, not the 80z.. :P

_________________
''minimart - it's basically a scaled-down supermarket, fits inside a petrol station. sells pies, antifreeze..''


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 3:42 pm
Posts: 1046
Location: The Short Forest
The Grand Wazoo
Cruisin With Ruben & The Jets (vinyl rules, CD sucks)
Jazz From Hell


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:24 am
Posts: 1165
Location: Stockholm
timm0 wrote:
just to be pedantic, the Brown Shoes and Peaches on TTR were actually recorded in 1979, not the 80z.. :P


And I must say that Peaches III is the best version of Peaches En Regalia.

Studebaker wrote:
but on the other hand... some people don't like Moogs, Clavinets, Fender Rhodes or wah wah-pedals because they sound 'too 70s' and make everything sound like the backing music to a Starsky and Hutch episode or a 70s cop movie.


I love the Moogs, Clavinets, Fender Rhodes and the Wah-Wah pedals and I love the 70's but I like Tinseltown too. It's a great band.

Aybe Sea wrote:
I hate the 80sized renditions of "Brown Shoes" and "Peaches". Those songs were already brilliant in the sixties, thank you. These two songs epitomized the genius of 60s FZ very well and are true classics. If it ain't broke, don't fix it with 80s production values-


Brown Shoes is better in the 60's, yes, but I like Aint Got No Heart and Tell Me You Love Me at TB more than in the 60's. I like the fast tempo.

Aybe Sea wrote:
One thing else completely wrong: too many guitarists, too many synthesizers


I don't think it's too many ... You can't have a trio always. You got to have variety sometimes..

Aybe Sea wrote:
(and lame ones at that)


What???? :evil:

Aybe Sea wrote:
The result can only be unlistenable trash.


You call Zappa music unlistenable trash???? :? :shock:

_________________
TB -


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: "
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:52 am
Posts: 1233
Quote:
I don't think it's too many ... You can't have a trio always. You got to have variety sometimes..


My idea of variety?

Look no further than albums like Grand Wazoo, Uncle Meat or even Studio Tan. Now there's a huuuuuuuge variety of instrumentation! Usually just one or maximally two guitars and just one or two guys handling keyboards, but there's also brass, woodwinds, vibes and sprinkling of other things. The 1977-84 band had virtually none of that.

Besides, FZ rarely used trio line ups. "GTR Trio" and Sleep Dirt tracks with Bozzio excepted.

And no, FZ ain't trash, neither unlistenable. Just that many of the sounds of his 80s rock albums annoy me.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 2:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:54 am
Posts: 239
To get back to the topic, I think Zappa's most underrated album is Waka/Jawaka.

Of course it's not underrated by most Zappa-fans, but it was one of his least-selling albums. It's one of my absolute favourites though. It's so damn good!

_________________
Music is the best. Music composed by FZ is the very best!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:26 pm
Posts: 2243
Thing Fish and The Man From Utopia.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 12:41 pm
Posts: 13896
Location: From some place in this area...
I have said this in the past: Zomby Woof

_________________
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:43 am
Posts: 42
My vote goes to You Are What You Is.

The reason I think it's "underrated" is because I think it's one of Frank's best works, yet it doesn't seem to get mentioned as such along with Overnite Sensation, Roxy & Elsewhere, One Size Fits All, etc.

Just my two cents.

_________________
"Good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things. But for good people to do bad things... that takes religion."-- Stephen Weinberg


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:24 am
Posts: 1165
Location: Stockholm
Flipkid wrote:
My vote goes to You Are What You Is.

The reason I think it's "underrated" is because I think it's one of Frank's best works, yet it doesn't seem to get mentioned as such along with Overnite Sensation, Roxy & Elsewhere, One Size Fits All, etc.

Just my two cents.


I also thinks You Are What You Is is Zappa's best album but I don't think it's underrated ...,

_________________
TB -


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:21 pm
Posts: 467
Sy Borg wrote:
To get back to the topic, I think Zappa's most underrated album is Waka/Jawaka.

Of course it's not underrated by most Zappa-fans, but it was one of his least-selling albums. It's one of my absolute favourites though. It's so damn good!


Thank you, that's what I meant by this thread.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:43 am
Posts: 42
Tinseltown_Banana wrote:
Flipkid wrote:
My vote goes to You Are What You Is.

The reason I think it's "underrated" is because I think it's one of Frank's best works, yet it doesn't seem to get mentioned as such along with Overnite Sensation, Roxy & Elsewhere, One Size Fits All, etc.

Just my two cents.


I also thinks You Are What You Is is Zappa's best album but I don't think it's underrated ...,


Fair enough. Then I change my "most underrated" vote to Broadway The Hard Way.

_________________
"Good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things. But for good people to do bad things... that takes religion."-- Stephen Weinberg


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:13 am
Posts: 2271
Location: englandia
Jazz From Hell is a sublime album once you get past its statistical density.

_________________
''minimart - it's basically a scaled-down supermarket, fits inside a petrol station. sells pies, antifreeze..''


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:52 am
Posts: 1233
How about

The Perfect Stranger

I honestly prefer it to The Yellow Shark. It's better than LSO too imho.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:21 pm
Posts: 467
Aybe Sea wrote:
How about

The Perfect Stranger

I honestly prefer it to The Yellow Shark. It's better than LSO too imho.


Hmmm, I must re-immerse myself in The Perfect Stranger, not been there for ages. Thank you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:26 pm
Posts: 2243
Aybe Sea wrote:
How about

The Perfect Stranger

I honestly prefer it to The Yellow Shark. It's better than LSO too imho.


Wow, really? No foolin'?

I don't really listen to The Perfect Stranger too often. I think Boulez didn't really know 100% what to do with Zappa- I'm sure he could of, if he only CARED more. The pieces are great, no doubt, but Girl In The Magnesium Dress I much prefer in it's live, human context. And there's some 'filler' Zappa synclavier material in there.Also, Dupree's Paradise always reminds me a lot of George Antheil's 'Jazz Symphony'.

From an educational point of view (meaning educational for me), why do you feel this way?(this could help my paper.)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:52 am
Posts: 1233
I have to admit it's a little hard for me to get into TYS. I find that album too long, with 70 minutes and all. And the more orthodox pieces do it for me, from Dog Meat and Outrage to Tornado. Someone called the newer material on it formless blather for the most part, and i can't say i disagree that much. There's not much form there. it's not like I dislike atonalism. I've got into "Pedro's Dowry" which was flat out dismissed by a critic as a "half drunk orchestra rehearsal", but stuff like Ruth Is Sleeping or Times Beach, I'm not sure what to make of them.

I do like the sinister atmosphere of TPS. Many of the pieces could well work for a movie. and those two Synclavier pieces that close the album are some of his best work with the machine.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:54 am
Posts: 239
Quote:
I think Boulez didn't really know 100% what to do with Zappa-


I agree on that!

Quote:
And there's some 'filler' Zappa synclavier material in there.


I disagree on that! I think Zappa's synclavier compositions on TPS are among his very best. Those are actually the only reason I listen to that album.

_________________
Music is the best. Music composed by FZ is the very best!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:52 pm
Posts: 154
I completely agree with what you said about TYS. Half of it is such a formless mess that I'm convinced that some people only like it (or at least try to convince themselves that they like it) because it's Zappa.

Maybe I just don't "get" this kind of classical music. If the Rage and the Fury ever comes out I may have to kick myself for being a completist.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:54 am
Posts: 239
Tom29 wrote:
Half of it is such a formless mess that I'm convinced that some people only like it (or at least try to convince themselves that they like it) because it's Zappa.


Not true!!!!!!!! I genuinely love everything on TYS!!!!! I think it's Zappa's very best album! The crown to his work!!!

_________________
Music is the best. Music composed by FZ is the very best!


Last edited by Sy Borg on Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 301 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 13  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group