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 Post subject: ROXY 35 years ago!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:58 am 
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 Post subject: Re: ROXY 35 years ago!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:22 am 
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Wow imagine seeing the curtain go up and with the mike stands, gotta see that one. Oh thats right it's not ready yet, There still having trouble with those pygmy's that are crushing those purple ants for the pigment of the DVD slick, just gotta have every thing up to standard.

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 Post subject: Re: ROXY 35 years ago!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:41 pm 
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"...sound recording personnel and film crew synchronized their equipment..."

Well, that part didn't work out so well did it?

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 Post subject: Re: ROXY 35 years ago!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:53 pm 
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What do they mean having problems synching up the sound with the video?
The promo on the Baby Snakes dvd looks pretty synched to me...

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 Post subject: Re: ROXY 35 years ago!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:48 am 
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My original intention when I created the On This Day thread in the General board, was that stuff such as this (and everything else[where]) could make it there (even though this deserves it's own thread). Pls, contribute:
http://www.zappa.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=10126

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 Post subject: Re: ROXY 35 years ago!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:12 am 
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jeddy wrote:
What do they mean having problems synching up the sound with the video?
The promo on the Baby Snakes dvd looks pretty synched to me...


The original footage was not shot in such a way as to put it in synch with the audio as normally done. The 'trailer' footage had to be 'manually' synched up. Meaning, eyeballing it. Not easy.

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 Post subject: Re: ROXY 35 years ago!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:47 am 
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my mistake.

Good God!! Can you imagine manually doing it for four hours of material?!
Isn't that what the BS dvd said will be released?
Whatever the situation I hope we all get to enjoy it before 2012 when the
Mayan calender says it's all going to end!


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 Post subject: Re: ROXY 35 years ago!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:57 am 
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jeddy wrote:
Good God!! Can you imagine manually doing it for four hours of material?!


It's worse than that. Having multiple cameras shooting with film loads changing at different times just compounds the problem. That's gonna be a lot of reels. And if I am not mistaken, more than one show was filmed.

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 Post subject: Re: ROXY 35 years ago!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:49 pm 
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This is the 21st century! Just run the film into the doohickey and sync it all up! Tell 'em, Gail, just that easy!

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 Post subject: Re: ROXY 35 years ago!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:05 am 
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Ya, I think there's some cool freeware out there that can do it!

"Simple-Sync" from Holy Gail Studios.

It also can be used as a plug-in for cool effects! Imagine all vocals sync'd with
a Tube Screamer sound!


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 Post subject: Re: ROXY 35 years ago!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:36 am 
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very sweet articles. nice!

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 Post subject: Re: ROXY 35 years ago!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:42 pm 
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I spoke briefly with Joe T before the 12-12-08 Roxy show and told him that it didnt have to be perfect and He said it wont be. What a show that will be! Roxy OH YEH!!!

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 Post subject: Re: ROXY 35 years ago!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:29 am 
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Roxy and Lumpy Money, may I hope to see them in 2009 8)

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 Post subject: Re: ROXY 35 years ago!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 4:01 am 
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tweezers wrote:
Roxy and Lumpy Money, may I hope to see them in 2009 8)


Roxy and Lumpy Money, may I hope to see them. :mrgreen: :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: ROXY 35 years ago!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:06 am 
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PenguinInBondage wrote:
tweezers wrote:
Roxy and Lumpy Money, may I hope to see them in 2009 8)


Roxy and Lumpy Money, may I hope to see them. :mrgreen: :cry:


Penguin you are THE MAN!

I have somewhat reappraised my position on Roxy, now understanding the synching process, but, for Lumpy Money, they should have just announced it was coming soon.....

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 Post subject: Re: ROXY 35 years ago!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:55 am 
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tweezers wrote:
Penguin you are THE MAN!

I have somewhat reappraised my position on Roxy, now understanding the synching process, but, for Lumpy Money, they should have just announced it was coming soon.....


Aw, I just calls 'em like I sees 'em. :mrgreen:

My brother works in film/video. I'm going to try and get him to write on his viewpoints with what is involved in the Roxy xfer process. Granted, he's on the outside looking in, but his vast knowledge into that area coupled with his devout Zappa fandom should lend a well-crafted opinion about that debacle. He just wrapped up a film and is "on break" for a few weeks so maybe I can get him to take the time and say something on this...

Cheers....

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 Post subject: Re: ROXY 35 years ago!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:03 am 
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Another technical perspective would be welcome.....

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 Post subject: Re: ROXY 35 years ago!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 9:07 am 
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Ok, I heard back from my brother. Here's his initial comments on the process involved:

Dan wrote:
You really don’t give me any facts to work on here, but hear is my best guess

They shot the concerts on 16mm which runs at 24 frames a second (in north america) All the music we have heard was most likely recorded at a frequency that would be good for 30fps not 24fps. That means any shot around ten minutes would fall out of sync. They most likely had at least 3 shooters with magazines of 400 ft loads which would shoot about 10 mins a load. The shooters would alternate changing mags so the full concert would be covered. So near the end of every roll they would lose sync.

But Frank was a perfectionist so it would be hard to believe he wouldn’t have had used a crystal sync of 60 Hz so he would be fine at 24fps.

Also they are scanning in the film and going digital, which they would need to convert the 24fps to 30fps. Which is done by a three two pull down (basicly adding a video field every second). Now really we run video at 29.97fps here so if they did just a 3:2 pull down they would need to slow the audio down by about 1%.

So there are many ways they could have messed up here, and we know they have the best archive so their big issue must be money and the lack of care frank would have given this project.

So that’s what I got, give me more facts and I can give you some better idea, tried to be very detailed for ya


I then wrote him back saying that an estimate on time or cost would really be a help with guessing on the hold-up, etc. To that, he said:

Dan wrote:
I would need to contact a post house and ask for a quote, but with out doing that it would be about $400 an hour for best light telecine or if you run it through a better system like a Davinchi 2 or 4 k maybe about $800/hour (which I could get for something like $50/hour)

Then syncing would cost about $150/hour

So it depends on how much footage you have and what you want done to it.

Their are a few ways to go about all this, some ways could save a ton of money,but may not be the studio approach.


I remember that Frank's original trailer captions stated how many hours of footage were taken, didn't it? If so, could someone please let me know some details? That way I could hit my brother up with some more "facts" for him to make a better guesstimate on how long the process would take and/or how much it would cost.

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: ROXY 35 years ago!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:51 pm 
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To keep this thread alive and in continuing my efforts (as "outsider" as they may be), here is what GZ said recently on the Roxy release:

GZ wrote:
Re Roxy – Here is what we know so far: First of all there is no synch and there are 3 fairly consistent camera angles and on that is pretty random. Everything visual that we have found so far has been transferred into HD. All audio elements (stereo mixes and multi-track masters) now live in the digital world. What we need now is a director/editor (and/or both) and a budget to produce the whole of it. There is an astronomical amount of work to be done – conforming, synching, surround mix, general clean up and organizational stuff. All we have here is FZ’s stereo mix, but that’s it. Now we just need time and money. That and a few other value judgments based on what FZ actually saw are the reasons why he never made it a priority. The good news is we have a slightly different system of values and see it as a worthy artifact to keep pushing up the hill of possibility.


I forwarded this "data" on to my brother in hopes of getting more information from him (re: resources, budget, networking, etc.) He is in well with many in the film industry here in Chicago and can certainly offer GZ and the ZFT some solutions, at the very least!

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 Post subject: Re: ROXY 35 years ago!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:04 pm 
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As I have stated, in our mythology, the penguin is a superior bird.

Now hopefully we can get some hard information and maybe help GZ to get this gem into our dirty little hands....

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 Post subject: Re: ROXY 35 years ago!
PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:05 am 
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My brother and I talked a bit more about it last night. He said, based off of Gail's details, there is *nothing* challenging about what's left to be done that he can see (from what little we know). He has some alternate resources that he can offer as far as getting the editing done on the cheap while still getting pro quality with the project as a whole. If anyone knows better contact information than gail@zappa.com, joe@zappa.com and/or 818-PUMPKIN - let me know!

Cheers...

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