Some fans have the nerve to fit it all into some CD mastering war giving little to no credence of1)You have the nerve to view any discussion as "pushing the negative".
the history of similar tape sources. There is nothing wrong with criticizing some problems that may exist with anything
but the critics/fans get far too carried away with pushing the negative.
You must have missed my evidence-based praise of the WOIIFTM 2008 remix. Alos, I think you divert the discussion away from topic.
RE_ Buffalo: Compare TTR and Buffalo. Nothing left to discuss about original tapes.
2) But interestingly, you are saying that in 1984 the digital instruments caused over compression in the original recordings? (And that the over compression on all Trance Fusion's non-1984 tracks was just done to follow suit?)
I hope you don't mind I inserted a 1) and 2) into your text as to make the quote one instead of the nesting variety.
Now let's get down to it.
1) On the first part it's not as if I am specifically isolating you or that I am opposed to anyone talking about the
Audio Mastering Loudness War. What I am more so getting at is this so called Loudness War that quite a few fans
are gathering around a campfire focusing on is that they seem to give little to no consideration on a sum of issues
regarding overall audio fidelity of the projects from beginning to end. I am going to isolate one such internet published comment.
Andrew Greenway who runs the Idiot Bastard Website.
I happen to appreciate a fair portion of what Andrew reports on his site,
Ironically he fished out something that I commented on
recently where I had absolutely no inside information on.
I just happened to comment on a given band where at the time in 1978 FZ never represented
on an official live album.
FZ put out live performances of December 1977 before Fall 76 with Bianca Odin.
Things are so ironic sometimes. So if you or anyone is looking for 2007 ZPZ before 2008 well excuse me,
did not FZ already set this precedence. Some fans have the nerve to dig deep where no such criticism is deserved.
They even invent time lines of Ray Whites departure from ZPZ that do not exist so as to only further improperly push an
agenda of spin doctored negativity. Investigate that it s well worth it.
Anyhow when Andrew published his latest news blog with isolating a specific comment out of context
I really think that form of News Reporting tends to spin
the thought process of the community in a certain direction
even if he does directly link to the topic. My god
the isolated comment can ring in ones mind like learning math.
Here we go Andrew writes:If you don’t like the loud sound of Buffalo, the Vaultmeister says to blame Frank Filipetti,
Now The Vaultmeister quoted and stated the following
In the case you care about things like that, watch this: http://www.dynamicrange.de.well critics, here's the deal. In the case of "Trance-Fusion"- we sent the album master to Bob Ludwig to do final tweeks, but the level on that title was already maxed out by Spence Chrislu. FZ was alive & authorized a final CD ref (I listened to it with him during his last days). So, in other words, FZ knew about it.
And if you are interested where recent CDs from our beloved composer's work suffer from this, just listen to Buffalo or Trance-Fusion. I suffer physically when listening to productions of that kind.
In the case of "Buffalo", Frank Filipetti sent us a finished mix already mastered that way. That is how he works & so there was no additional mastering after the fact. If you don't like how that sounds, blame it on him.
I always pay special attention to these types of details on every release. Mastering engineers we work with are chosen on a project basis. In other words, depending on what the program material is or sounds like, determines who we work with. I happen to think we work with some of the best mastering engineers in the biz.
I'm well aware that mastering has become a level war, loud is not always better. Hope this makes ya feel better.
I think it is more important to take a look at things a little deeper
as opposed to putting out a blanket comment where Loudness War and Frank Fillipetti are Synonymous.
Fortunately Joe's Commentary is a bit deeper than how Andrew presented it.
It's as if from some fanatical perspectives, some may be extremely unhappy with a given ZFT title
fitting into this Industry Loudness War Quotient and fans want to piss all over the ZFT and their employees
and Blanket News Blog Reporting in a one sentence swoop says the blame is on Fillipetti.
It's not as if Andrew's short news blog is the designed theater piss but it certainly seems to fit
the piss quotient that fans of extreme negativity need to isolate and focus of for their agenda.
Long after the dialog of any reasoning stops I could see where what is remembered is Blame Blame Blame
it's mastered all too loud instead of what good goddamn it is in these recordings.
Additionally when some fans do talk when I see a fan stating the ZFT are doing projects on the cheap that is
ridiculous. It's as if some fans want to push some grass roots reasoning as to why the music industry is faced
with consumers who steal instead of buying based on any given price point.
Well not all fans are unhappy with Buffalo. Lots are quite happy with it.
I have lots of respect for Frank Fillipetti and as we can see some fans, the operative keywords are some fans,
may now want to fit his engineering skills into a bx of Loudness Mastering just as easily as they were unhappy with the ZFT.
I think the first thought of blame on the ZFT and any extreme negativity towards Frank Fillipetti would be totally ridiculous.
Fans should heed the the liner and what Joe says. Yes we need to understand how Frank Fillipetti engineered this
but one needs to investigate all his engineering processed on the project.
Buffalo is different than TTR . TTR is a project which came out on different formats and different MIXes.
Additionally TTR is quite an overall different listening experience that is from different concerts,
different tours and even has some studio material, so some given forum user here
that questions why I am raising or focused on 1984 material when as he said only 6 songs on Trance Fusion
was from the 1984 I think this is well enough to show the differences of arrangement
and hall sonics that the engineer has to deal with. When a new project of similar material gets released
as with Trance Fusion i comparison to anything previously from 1984 what stands out in a very positive way
is the dynamic density of 1984 digital instrumentation that was so much a part of the overall mix.
The overall listening experience has gone from a cold sound as to having life.
Ironically I believe TTR has 8 of 15 tracks being recorded early Dec 1980
that most closely is of the band configuration on Buffalo which is October 1980 but venue sonics and performance
between Berkeley Community Theater and Memorial Auditorium, Buffalo are quite different even if the band configuration is the same.
Buffalo is from one show so that inherent fabric landscape
that changes from venue to venue is not there. Yes when a project is created from different venues,
different tours and even including studio material all sorts of tools are used to help balance that all out
but when sources naturally have a different acoustic palate that change is evident sometimes in a eye awaking
way that some may very like as having ambient acoustic contrast . My point is so many different textures reside in a live tape performances
from show to show and tour to tour. Even if some dynamics are removed with all this compression I think sometimes what is there
is still worth discussing more than isolating the Loudness War.
2) I am not saying Digitial Instruments Caused Over Compression on the original source recordings.
What I am saying is the digital recording technology was new where different source recording standards may have been used.
As far as the instrumentation the digital instruments themselves lacked dynamic density. COLD.
I am so much more interested in discussing how the digital instruments performed on in 1984 are sounding better
on Trance Fusion as compared to YCDTOSA and Guitar. The first time I heard Trance Fusion I told myself
wow those drums and keyboards have more life. Not that they have become my favorati of textures
in FZ canon but they are sounding vibrant as ever. Do I wish I could have seen 13 1978 shows instead of 13 1984 shows
hell yeah but in looking at the mass quantities of live 1984 material that exist in Official Projects
finally there are actually some notable dynamics
to the attack and decay of any given digital sample and patch performed on keyboards and drums in Trance Fusion
that is missing on YCDTOSA and Guitar. In regards to Trance Fusion for those that have the pre-Bob Ludwig work
that seems to have been hijacked from an early FZ work in progress cassette. Is there any evidence
in that Bootleg that shows that on the Official Release Bob Ludwig is not to be saluted for his work. I don't think so.
But no, here we are focused on Loudness War.