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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:18 pm 
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A lot of what Frank did to push the envelope must be looked at in context, when Freak Out was released it was blasphemy for that time, if my parents would have found that record in my room it would have been promptly disposed of (and they were hip as parents went in the 60’s).

The same as future release’s within the time frame they were released, Frank always pushed the social norms and can be credited with contributing to many of them being disarmed.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:04 am 
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Frank is still ahead of his time. Who knows in 100 years Jazz Discharge Party Hats might be the new Stairway to Heaven ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:37 am 
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I think he wasn't ahead of his time. Normal time is different to Zappa time. :wink:

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Last edited by wakawazooinregalia' on Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:59 pm 
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wakawazooinregalia' wrote:
I think he wasn't ahead of his time, look at the (commercial) music of the 80's and the (commercial) music of today. Do you see any difference in the music of Michael Jackson or Bon Jovi and the music of Justin Bieber or One Direction? Has music evolved? No. People hear the same product as always.



Dude what the hell, the only thing those musicians have in common is they were/are commercially viable, musically they are different. If you don't like that music that's fine, say that, but if you think they are the same you may want to have your ears checked... :smoke:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:58 pm 
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Sorry, I explained it very badly. I don't think he was ahead of his time. If he didn't belong to that time, why would he belong to the music of "X" years later? For example, Weasels "doesn't fit in its time" (1970). But why would it fit in the future?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:23 pm 
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I'm somewhat hard pressed to imagine a "time" where sniffing shit stained panties (if you'll pardon my french) isn't going to be considered nuts. There are certain fundamental aspects to human nature that aren't going to change just because "society" changes.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:27 pm 
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wakawazooinregalia' wrote:
Sorry, I explained it very badly. I don't think he was ahead of his time. If he didn't belong to that time, why would he belong to the music of "X" years later? For example, Weasels "doesn't fit in its time" (1970). But why would it fit in the future?



Ahhhh...Got it, sorry about that...what I wrote kinda sounded rude when I re-read it... :idea:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:31 pm 
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What I wrote sounded rude to NuclerProstate too... just a communication breakdown. It's always the same :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:32 pm 
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Opus131 wrote:
I'm somewhat hard pressed to imagine a "time" where sniffing shit stained panties (if you'll pardon my french) isn't going to be considered nuts. There are certain fundamental aspects to human nature that aren't going to change just because "society" changes.


the real question is when will eating a shit that another musician took on stage come into fashion... :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:38 pm 
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Opus131 wrote:
I'm somewhat hard pressed to imagine a "time" where sniffing shit stained panties (if you'll pardon my french) isn't going to be considered nuts. There are certain fundamental aspects to human nature that aren't going to change just because "society" changes.

That's basically what I meant. :smoke:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 3:54 pm 
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"Frank Zappa is an anachronism that makes the ugliest music on the face of the planet." - Frank Zappa as imagined by the editor of some famous rock and roll magazine.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:05 pm 
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KUIII wrote:
"Frank Zappa is an anachronism that makes the ugliest music on the face of the planet." - Frank Zappa as imagined by the editor of some famous rock and roll magazine.

Jann Wenner? Whoever it was probably never made it to Blessed Relief.

Opus131 wrote:
I think there's a fine line in pointing out that reality is filled with many absurdities and that things aren't as peachy or as perfect as we are led to believe, to trying to push the notion that reality is NOTHING but an absurdity, which is going to the opposite extreme. For instance, there's a lot of filth going on in human sexuality but there's also a lot of beauty and if there is prudery on one side, there is certainly perversity on the other. You can't just say that because perversity exists human nature is nothing but perversity, which sometimes seems to be the general idea.

Yet it's much more difficult and takes a lot more work for humans to love each than to hate each other.

Opus131 wrote:
But Zappa was different. I don't think he ever crossed that line but he could have and he certainly was aware of how far he could have gone had he wanted to.

He called Live Aid the biggest cocaine money laundering scheme of all time. That's balls.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:49 pm 
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My take: in the 60s Zappa was all provocative, fuck-off, irreverent in his vibes, but he also did seem to be a bit more of an idealistic kind of a guy, as you could tell from the benign melodic climate in the music he recorded during the Uncle/Rats/Weeny epoch. He was a capable composer that had simply got into a lot of trouble with the establishment, and so of course he got very anti-estab in his attitude.

Later on, starting from Over-Nite era onwards, he transitioned more into a kind of a dirty old man, as you can tell from the more overt softcore porn esque lyrics in several songs as well as the creepy way he uses his lowered voice in some songs, esp. Zoot Allures period (it even evokes me of Al Bundy going: "Let's rock!" in some "Married with Children" episodes). By late 1970s he'd emerged from a decade of suffering starting with a horrendous stage attack and culminating in a brutal legal battle with Warner Bros, to name but two of the most traumatic events and as a result was more bitter than ever. This even reflects in his art music: notice the sombre tones and almost funereal feel of "Sinister Footwear II" next to the pastoralness of the chamber music interlude in "Little House".

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:04 am 
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If there's something in Zappa's oeuvre that's softporn, it's 200 Motels. Oh, and Fillmore East of course.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:08 am 
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BBP wrote:
If there's something in Zappa's oeuvre that's softporn, it's 200 Motels. Oh, and Fillmore East of course.



Dinah-Moe Humm... :idea:


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:20 am 
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Ed pinpointed the start of strong erotic lyrics at Over-Nite Sensation, and Dinah-Moe is on there. But he started it earlier with 200 Motels, which was years in the making, so I suppose the gist was always there.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:50 pm 
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I don't think Burnt Weeny, Weasels, Hot Rats, Lumpy, Uncle Meat or Ruben were fuck- off. I say FO, AF and WOIIFTM were fuck off.

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 Post subject: Re: zappa's music
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:40 pm 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
My take: in the 60s Zappa was all provocative, fuck-off, irreverent in his vibes, but he also did seem to be a bit more of an idealistic kind of a guy, as you could tell from the benign melodic climate in the music he recorded during the Uncle/Rats/Weeny epoch. He was a capable composer that had simply got into a lot of trouble with the establishment, and so of course he got very anti-estab in his attitude.

Later on, starting from Over-Nite era onwards, he transitioned more into a kind of a dirty old man, as you can tell from the more overt softcore porn esque lyrics in several songs as well as the creepy way he uses his lowered voice in some songs, esp. Zoot Allures period (it even evokes me of Al Bundy going: "Let's rock!" in some "Married with Children" episodes). By late 1970s he'd emerged from a decade of suffering starting with a horrendous stage attack and culminating in a brutal legal battle with Warner Bros, to name but two of the most traumatic events and as a result was more bitter than ever. This even reflects in his art music: notice the sombre tones and almost funereal feel of "Sinister Footwear II" next to the pastoralness of the chamber music interlude in "Little House".
well put. I agree. 8)

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:49 am 
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BBP wrote:
If there's something in Zappa's oeuvre that's softporn, it's 200 Motels. Oh, and Fillmore East of course.


Flo & Eddie period, I feel FZ was branching out towards that area of his lyrics-writing, after having had to sideline such ambitions in favour of more of a political commentary. Plus the fact that FZ was still away from his stage fall means we still had FZ with his younger voice and thus we had a bit of a young rebellious lad engaging himself with bawdy, slapstick humour, especially in the company of a pair of lead singers that were "funny as hell" (what Jeff Simmons appears to be saying in the recent "Another Mothers" Chrome Dreams DVD according to Idiot Bastard's review).

On Over-Nite Sensation, his voice had lowered, his attitude more morose and it's just himself doing the lead vocals basically, hence the impression that a dirty old man is appearing and supplanting the exuberant horny young lad pre-Dec 71.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:13 am 
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Speaking of 200 Motels. When am I gonna be able to get a decent CD of that shit? I'm dying for it.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:38 am 
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Even if the ZFT is one day able to release it, I doubt the quality will be noticeably better. I think it's just the way it was recorded, and a sign of the times. But, those are just my opinions.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:41 am 
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Yeah I just want it on CD. All copies online are old pressings and very expensive. I want it with the release number on the side! This needs a re-release badly. Never heard it all the way through.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:57 am 
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I paid $50 total for my Ryko copy. It was worth it to me to have it. Thanks again to slime who provided that link.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 2:36 am 
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And thanks Dad for giving it to me for St Nick! He had awesome timing about that one.

I'm just reminded of Uncle Meat. Last Zappadan I skipped through the 30 minutes of some lass saying "I'm hot" all the time. Brr.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:21 am 
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Philostopher wrote:
I paid $50 total for my Ryko copy. It was worth it to me to have it. Thanks again to slime who provided that link.

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:shock:

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