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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:25 pm 
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madcow1515 wrote:
zomby truth wrote:
To stay on topic, the one song that never excites me is "If Only She Woulda." Purely there for a segue and not that musically interesting, to me at least.

I used to dislike it until I realized what a great Doors parody it is. The guitar solo isn't too shabby either.

Then you should love "The Radio Is Broken," where Arthur Barrow slipped in a quotation from "Love Street" (with FZ's approval, of course)...

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:29 pm 
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For my taste, it's anything on Guitar after Sexual Harassment.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:09 pm 
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sorry to be off topic...

but, GOOD GOD the shit that spews from trendy's finger tips always amazes me!

he really creeps me out.

is ANYBODY his friend on this board?

and yes trendy, no artist or songwriter is perfect and do in fact write a shit song or two

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:55 am 
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manichispanic wrote:
sorry to be off topic...

but, GOOD GOD the shit that spews from trendy's finger tips always amazes me!

he really creeps me out.

is ANYBODY his friend on this board?

and yes trendy, no artist or songwriter is perfect and do in fact write a shit song or two


Best Lists Worst List it's all some unnecessary People Magazine Zombie pose.
It's all far too rooted from a society that has little to no time
and or desire to get analytical on anything. Lack of intellect is where society is headed. Fahrenheit 451.
Just tap your foot....... just look at pictures no need for words. Words are bad Montague.
Nothing wrong with tapping your foot to music but music as an art form is more than tapping your foot.
I can tap my foot to anything and I feel no need to create best lists and worse lists on anything from Zappa to Michael Jackson.
We can start a new TV Trend with judges that wear the My Three Sons feet. Music is played
that is synchronized to the footage from the opening of the TV Show.
TV Viewers can phone in their tap foot votes.
Most foot tap votes get a wing tip shoe made of gold.
My Three Sons - opening
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-PbwJ0VXhs
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I do have preferences for situations but I do not feel compelled to compartmentalize the art beyond the artists intent.
For example I may suggest Over-Nite Sensation and Apostrophe (') to newbees but I do not consider any Zappa album BEST.
Sitting around and foruming of best and worst seems a severe disservice as to what the artist was creating.
If you or anyone happens to like anything fine but the need to organize around a wagon train of lists is of a disservice.
If you happen to not like it why the need to organize around a wagon train with some worse ideology.
In either case weather anyone likes or dislikes anything in particular the discussion as to what this art means to you
and how you can articulate that is far more interesting than lists of posture. These lists are a joke but those that feel the
need to have fun over discussing what the artist was doing hey that is just where society is at.


The point being critical analysis of art compartmentalized to Best & Worst Lists is entirely a bit too preposterous.
If people want to do a critical analysis of what a song is regardless of how much they like or dislike it is one thing
but little to no critical analysis is done with many of these best and worst lists. It's a good thing the artist
work speaks for itself and peoples opinions can easily get bundled into the no accounting for taste
and lack of brain density categories where hopefully such thoughts become worm food and the art lives for
all of humanity with an open mind.

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Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:42 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
Best Lists Worst List it's all some unnecessary People Magazine Zombie pose.
It's all far too rooted from a society that has little to no time
and or desire to get analytical on anything. Lack of intellect is where society is headed. Fahrenheit 451.
Just tap your foot....... just look at pictures no need for words. Words are bad Montague.
Nothing wrong with tapping your foot to music but music as an art form is more than tapping your foot.

That is exactly how I feel about your insistance that every Zappa piece is just as good as the rest. Nothing is better, or worse. All exactly as good as the rest. To me, that lack of discrimination is why I find your reviews less than helpful. And, sorry to say it....but I will anyway..., your lack of discrimination is (to use your words) "lack of intellect". If you are where society is headed, oh, spare me, please!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:36 am 
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just plain doug wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
Best Lists Worst List it's all some unnecessary People Magazine Zombie pose.
It's all far too rooted from a society that has little to no time
and or desire to get analytical on anything. Lack of intellect is where society is headed. Fahrenheit 451.
Just tap your foot....... just look at pictures no need for words. Words are bad Montague.
Nothing wrong with tapping your foot to music but music as an art form is more than tapping your foot.

That is exactly how I feel about your insistance that every Zappa piece is just as good as the rest. Nothing is better, or worse. All exactly as good as the rest. To me, that lack of discrimination is why I find your reviews less than helpful. And, sorry to say it....but I will anyway..., your lack of discrimination is (to use your words) "lack of intellect". If you are where society is headed, oh, spare me, please!


I sense a alack of depth ala Bernard Madoff familia perception as to what is going on.
We have all this money but we are clueless. Sure whatever you say familia but in my book
the probability is your all to some degree in that Ponzi mess and deserve a big ole investigation on your asses.
You know what I am talking about or you are just twisting it to seem ignorant.
Where do I say every composition of the composers cannon is as good or bad as one another.
I say nothing of the sort. There is absolutely no need to compartmentalize the composers art
into boxes of good and bad. He did what he did if you like it fine.

If some rich guy comes along and pays a Trillion Dollars for the rights to Tengo Na Minchia Tanta
just how good is that song then. Is Michael Jacksons music that good because of it's financial success?
Even then I would feel no need to compartmentalize that tune
into a good or bad label. Yes someone has set a value at a trillion dollars but that is not what the art is about.
No differently art is also not about good and bad lists.

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FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:53 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
we are clueless.


Must be the "royal we".

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:56 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
No differently art is also not about good and bad lists.

"Bad" as in "bad" or just "bad"?

No seriously. Are you trying to argue that people can have opinions about art that differs from its selling value? So, I don't have to like Elvis after all? I don't have to cherish Freud's ugly highest priced painting (by living artist). Whoopee!

Wow, you are deep after all. :D

PS: Your Madoff analogy, however, was really BAD.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:03 pm 
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madcow1515 wrote:
zomby truth wrote:
To stay on topic, the one song that never excites me is "If Only She Woulda." Purely there for a segue and not that musically interesting, to me at least.

I used to dislike it until I realized what a great Doors parody it is. The guitar solo isn't too shabby either.


Love that, along with the Pseudo-Krieger keyboard solo and great playing by underrated Mr. Lougeman

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:36 pm 
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BTW - 'Flakes' would be another contestant from my side, too much of a 4/4 stadium-rock aroma for my tastes :P


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:40 pm 
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buffalo_voice wrote:
BTW - 'Flakes' would be another contestant from my side, too much of a 4/4 stadium-rock aroma for my tastes :P


We will, we will, flake you!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:43 pm 
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buffalo_voice wrote:
BTW - 'Flakes' would be another contestant from my side, too much of a 4/4 stadium-rock aroma for my tastes :P


I'm sure Frank was going for the "rock anthem" effect with that one. The opening riff is great too.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:23 am 
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HJ wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
No differently art is also not about good and bad lists.

"Bad" as in "bad" or just "bad"?

No seriously. Are you trying to argue that people can have opinions about art that differs from its selling value? So, I don't have to like Elvis after all? I don't have to cherish Freud's ugly highest priced painting (by living artist). Whoopee!

Wow, you are deep after all. :D

PS: Your Madoff analogy, however, was really BAD.


The point is people are as ignorant of art as they are of money.
Sometimes it comes too easy.
Art and money can come to some far too easily where they do not take the time
to appreciate it for it's value as it was created. The artist puts more into making his art
than a financial sum and return on investment, hopefully it is about something.

The Madoff familia analogy is about anyone who made tons of money on Ponzi schemes.
Look at all those crooks in what I call the Madoff familia. You mean you made all this money in your account
that is totally unrealistic and you are not going to question it.
I guess they just tap their foot to the money.
Yeah you had no idea it was bogus and illegal you just
took the money as a good faith investment.

Anyone who wants to learn something about how to appreciate art see the film
The Moderns
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095649/

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:17 am 
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r_a_Z_Z wrote:
buffalo_voice wrote:
BTW - 'Flakes' would be another contestant from my side, too much of a 4/4 stadium-rock aroma for my tastes :P


I'm sure Frank was going for the "rock anthem" effect with that one. The opening riff is great too.

Too much of a short sighted analogy for my taste.

Yes a given portion of the rhythm has a Rock Anthem Effect but
I believe marches were around long before Rock Anthems.
Marches were notated beginning late 16th Century and I don't even
think NY Ranger Fans were singing this one back then
New York Rangers Goal Song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu8r22o0bJY

That whole we are millions and millions we're coming to get you
is done as a march. FZs music frequently had so many musical stylings going on.
Take a good look back at Brown Shoes Don't Make It everything from Sprechgesang to the Supremes.
Flakes is very much FZs Brown Shoes of cheesey Americanism of the late 70s.
Punk, Dylan, Rock Anthem, March all set to a spreading the frosting with a knife made from a paper plate society.
Everything is all fake and breaks too easily. When they fix it they break it some more.

One more from the road
Gary Glitter - Rock'n Roll Part 2 1972
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xd44PWZGzg
This lip sync sorta reminds ya of FZ Blood Sweat and Tears reference
in Approximate.

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:30 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
HJ wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
No differently art is also not about good and bad lists.

"Bad" as in "bad" or just "bad"?

No seriously. Are you trying to argue that people can have opinions about art that differs from its selling value? So, I don't have to like Elvis after all? I don't have to cherish Freud's ugly highest priced painting (by living artist). Whoopee!

Wow, you are deep after all. :D

PS: Your Madoff analogy, however, was really BAD.


.....

The Madoff familia analogy is about anyone who made tons of money on Ponzi schemes.

....
I know what Madoff did and what his followers thought (and they did not know that Charles Ponzi died a poor man). That's why I thought it was a poor analogy to people who judge art on the basis of their financial value. Different issue altogether.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:14 pm 
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1977 Pilsbury Frosting Supreme (Paper Knife) Commercial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEuSVT9q2_Q


Trendmonger wrote:
r_a_Z_Z wrote:
buffalo_voice wrote:
BTW - 'Flakes' would be another contestant from my side, too much of a 4/4 stadium-rock aroma for my tastes :P


I'm sure Frank was going for the "rock anthem" effect with that one. The opening riff is great too.

Too much of a short sighted analogy for my taste.

Yes a given portion of the rhythm has a Rock Anthem Effect but
I believe marches were around long before Rock Anthems.
Marches were notated beginning late 16th Century and I don't even
think NY Ranger Fans were singing this one back then
New York Rangers Goal Song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu8r22o0bJY

That whole we are millions and millions we're coming to get you
is done as a march. FZs music frequently had so many musical stylings going on.
Take a good look back at Brown Shoes Don't Make It everything from Sprechgesang to the Supremes.
Flakes is very much FZs Brown Shoes of cheesey Americanism of the late 70s.
Punk, Dylan, Rock Anthem, March all set to a spreading the frosting with a knife made from a paper plate society.
Everything is all fake and breaks too easily. When they fix it they break it some more.

One more from the road
Gary Glitter - Rock'n Roll Part 2 1972
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xd44PWZGzg
This lip sync sorta reminds ya of FZ Blood Sweat and Tears reference
in Approximate.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:49 pm 
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316 lines of Mongerian trivia prompted by an aside..
(..on second thought, 'Flakes' is not so bad, after all :P :mrgreen: )


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:25 am 
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buffalo_voice wrote:
316 lines of Mongerian trivia prompted by an aside..
(..on second thought, 'Flakes' is not so bad, after all :P :mrgreen: )

Yeah: at least "Flakes" is over in 6 or 7 minutes... :P

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:27 am 
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r_a_Z_Z wrote:
buffalo_voice wrote:
BTW - 'Flakes' would be another contestant from my side, too much of a 4/4 stadium-rock aroma for my tastes :P


I'm sure Frank was going for the "rock anthem" effect with that one. The opening riff is great too.


Always thought the climax/long outro on this was a dig at Styx ... still can't unthink that now that it occurred tomeoh so many years later,
"We are millions and millions, we're comin to get ya!"

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:59 am 
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punknaynowned wrote:
r_a_Z_Z wrote:
buffalo_voice wrote:
BTW - 'Flakes' would be another contestant from my side, too much of a 4/4 stadium-rock aroma for my tastes :P


I'm sure Frank was going for the "rock anthem" effect with that one. The opening riff is great too.


Always thought the climax/long outro on this was a dig at Styx ... still can't unthink that now that it occurred tomeoh so many years later,
"We are millions and millions, we're comin to get ya!"


Please expand on what exact so called "STYX dig" you are hearing I am not sure what you are referring to.
Come Sail Away was getting airplay in 1977 but peaked in 1978. From my memory this hit the airwaves long before Renegade.
While that band had been around since 1972 I don't think they reached the Rock Anthem
tier until Renegade dominated the airwaves in late 1978 through 79. They had toured with Aerosmith in 1978
and the The Grand Illusion 77', Pieces of Eight 78' & Cornerstone 79' albums were toured to big audiences
and got massive airplay over a three year run 78-81.

Off the top of my head I can not recall the exact arrangements that pre-dated the Sheik Yerbouti arrangement
which is a live recording from January 1978 with overdubs. Such is life of a non-AUD tape collector.
I assume the Outro FLAKES FLAKES as heard on Sheik Yerbouti is from January 78' and I doubt Renegade was getting much airplay by then.
The Rock Anthem status of that tune would be about mid-79 where that song was played a gazillion times bu that time frame.

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:27 pm 
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Trendmonger wrote:
Please expand on what exact so called "STYX dig" you are hearing I am not sure what you are referring to.
Come Sail Away was getting airplay in 1977 but peaked in 1978. From my memory this hit the airwaves long before Renegade.
While that band had been around since 1972 I don't think they reached the Rock Anthem
tier until Renegade dominated the airwaves in late 1978 through 79. They had toured with Aerosmith in 1978
and the The Grand Illusion 77', Pieces of Eight 78' & Cornerstone 79' albums were toured to big audiences
and got massive airplay over a three year run 78-81.


He could possibly be reminded of the closing section of "Lady" (released first in 1972, then re-released in 1974, reaching #6 on the single's chart), with its staccato, march-like snare drum part.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:01 pm 
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Well, I guess I can officially stop following this thread now.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:05 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:39 pm 
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You're fooling yourself, if you don't believe it.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:42 am 
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FalseDichotomy wrote:
Trendmonger wrote:
Please expand on what exact so called "STYX dig" you are hearing I am not sure what you are referring to.
Come Sail Away was getting airplay in 1977 but peaked in 1978. From my memory this hit the airwaves long before Renegade.
While that band had been around since 1972 I don't think they reached the Rock Anthem
tier until Renegade dominated the airwaves in late 1978 through 79. They had toured with Aerosmith in 1978
and the The Grand Illusion 77', Pieces of Eight 78' & Cornerstone 79' albums were toured to big audiences
and got massive airplay over a three year run 78-81.


He could possibly be reminded of the closing section of "Lady" (released first in 1972, then re-released in 1974, reaching #6 on the single's chart), with its staccato, march-like snare drum part.

Or millions of other marches that symbolize unity.

But why not it's certainly an entertaining thought of the times of Flakey Americana circa mid to late 1970s.
.....Oh I can see it now Mrs Williams from the
1977 Pilsbury Frosting Supreme (Paper Knife) Commercial
could be the American Lady that is all Flaked Out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEuSVT9q2_Q
Mrs Williams your Dorothy Hamill haircut is just sooo Americana.
You are a Flake not only for buying into this Supreme Frosting Paper Knife Shtick bit just take a look at your hairdo-doo.
Just how many American women back in 76-78 were marching to that Flakey haircut?
When Dennis DeYoung penned that song in 1972 I don't think his Lady marched her way to her hair stylist
for the Dorothy Hamill look but when that song made a big comeback there were millions and millions of flake possibilities come 1977.

Now this drama is quite different but just picture all the women with Dorothy Hamill haircuts in ice skates
holding a box of wheaties while men chase after them frosting cakes with Pilsbury Frosting Supreme with a paper knife.
Lady
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxxLg6MQuZ0

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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