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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:44 am 
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Some of the material I've heard makes me think that Frank was rapper before rap music existed, at least in the main stream. At least, he provided some inspiration. Cases in point, the YCDTOSA version of Dumb All Over, or even as far back as the I'm the Slime poem..."Your mind is totally controlled. It has been stuffed into my mold, and you will do as you are told, until the rights to you are sold." What do you think? HAs any rap artist ever cited Frank as an influence?

Maybe this thread betray how little I know about rap... :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:09 am 
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Go further back to the original "Trouble Every Day"....but he's hardly the original rapper nonetheless.

.


Last edited by Dances on Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:24 am 
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Nah, Well might have been one of them. Look into Pigmeat Markham, Dolemite, Blowfly,Gil Scott-Heron, Fatback Band.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:31 am 
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Frank definitely was either on to rapping or inadvertently rapping, he even went as far as to call that song style "Speak Music".


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:53 am 
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GuitarplayainMD wrote:
... Pigmeat Markham, Dolemite, Blowfly,Gil Scott-Heron, Fatback Band.

I think that was what I had for supper last Saturday, at a BBQ restaurant.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:29 am 
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yeah, dumb all over comes off as corney to me. his rapping is not good.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:23 am 
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Oh dear no.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:31 pm 
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spitball wrote:
Some of the material I've heard makes me think that Frank was rapper before rap music existed

I agree neither chronologically nor musically.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:17 pm 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHPikUPlRD8
Blondie - Rapture
Even Blondie was a Rapping 1981

The Slime lyric sound More Like Poetry
More Poerty please :D

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:23 pm 
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Rapping (also known as emceeing, MCing, spitting (bars), or just rhyming) is the rhythmic spoken delivery of rhymes, wordplay, and poetry. Rapping is a primary ingredient in hip hop music, but the phenomenon predates hip hop culture by centuries.

Sounds to me like FZ was definitely rapping on sveral songs according to its definition, and as FZ said it was "Speak Music".

Case closed, next question?

8)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:52 pm 
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Why are Rappers not Credited as Poets then :)

It got to be common sense That people rapped before Scratch records.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:45 pm 
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cleon wrote:
Why are Rappers not Credited as Poets then :)

It got to be common sense That people rapped before Scratch records.




Aren't they? :?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:36 pm 
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Quote:
is frank the original rapper?

old question. and it's as stupid as it ever was.

what's the point of asking it?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:47 pm 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
Quote:
is frank the original rapper?

old question. and it's as stupid as it ever was.

what's the point of asking it?

Well, he did sometimes wish he wasn't white.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:52 pm 
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Quote:
is frank the original rapper?
Lumpy Gravy wrote:
old question. and it's as stupid as it ever was.

what's the point of asking it?
just plain doug wrote:
Well, he did sometimes wish he wasn't white.

sometimes? I'd say once.

(he never repeated that line, in any of the subsequent versions of 'trouble every day.')

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:17 pm 
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Quote:
bob marshall: I remember in an interview around the late seventies, you brought up the concept of "sprechstimme", a german term.

fz: a speech-song. that means, instead of singing all the pitches of the song, you half speak it, you half sing it. it's a technique that was attributed to schoenberg who used it in a piece called "pierrot lunaire". and the way it was written was: all the pitches for the soprano to sing, the ones that she was supposed to half speak, had x's on the stems. but I don't think he invented it because this is a type of vocal styling that has been used in blues. it's also been used in other types of ethnic music. you can find it in bulgarian music where, instead of exactly singing the note, you imply the pitch of the note, but you're really talking it. it's in between.

bob marshall: you started doing your talking stuff around that time when you were talking about that concept?

fz: the first album had "sprechstimme" on it.


zappa and bob marshall 1988

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:26 pm 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
Quote:
is frank the original rapper?

old question. and it's as stupid as it ever was.

what's the point of asking it?


No real point in asking it. I could have just made it a comment instead, to the effect that I noticed how some of his songs remind me of rap in a way. I find it nifty, and I wonder how unique, unusual or influential that was in his time.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:32 pm 
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M.C. FZ


BBBBBOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYIIIIEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:51 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:14 am 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
Quote:
is frank the original rapper?
Lumpy Gravy wrote:
old question. and it's as stupid as it ever was.

what's the point of asking it?
just plain doug wrote:
Well, he did sometimes wish he wasn't white.

sometimes? I'd say once.

(he never repeated that line, in any of the subsequent versions of 'trouble every day.')



but the lyrics say there's a whole lot of times he wishes he was black. so that would mean more than once :P

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:25 am 
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Good job Lumpy

Bob Marshall: I remember in an interview around the late Seventies, you brought up the concept of "sprechstimme", a German term.
Frank Zappa: A speech-song. That means, instead of singing all the pitches of the song, you half speak it, you half sing it. It's a technique that was attributed to Schoenberg who used it in a piece called "Pierrot Lunaire". And the way it was written was: all the pitches for the soprano to sing, the ones that she was supposed to half speak, had X's on the stems. But I don't think he invented it because this is a type of vocal styling that has been used in Blues. It's also been used in other types of ethnic music. You can find it in Bulgarian music where, instead of exactly singing the note, you imply the pitch of the note, but you're really talking it. It's in between.
Bob Marshall: You started doing your talking stuff around that time when you were talking about that concept?
Frank Zappa: The first album had "sprechstimme" on it.


Well there it is...


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:58 am 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
spitball wrote:
is frank the original rapper?
old question. and it's as stupid as it ever was. what's the point of asking it?
You can be a real grumpy bastard sometimes can't you. This guy has only just joined the forum this month, why are you being such a prick?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:23 am 
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What about "Dina-Moe-Humm"

"Dina-Moe watched from the edge of her bed......"

That sounds like some basic rap to me.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:34 am 
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polydigm wrote:
Lumpy Gravy wrote:
spitball wrote:
is frank the original rapper?
old question. and it's as stupid as it ever was. what's the point of asking it?
You can be a real grumpy bastard sometimes can't you. This guy has only just joined the forum this month, why are you being such a prick?


Thanks for the support. In hindsight, I felt that my question was a bit naive-sounding so I didn't mind re-stating it when he posted that response.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:45 pm 
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AGuyWithAWrench wrote:
What about "Dina-Moe-Humm"

"Dina-Moe watched from the edge of her bed......"

That sounds like some basic rap to me.


And what about Nanook Rubs It?
It has interesting ingredients such as the back-up singers repeating the lead singer words and a few accelerated parts:

"Well right about that time, people
A fur trapper
Who was strictly from commercial (Strictly commercial)
Had the unmedicated audacity to jump up from behind my igaloo (Peek-a-boo Woo-ooo-ooo)
And he started in to whippin' on my fav'rite baby seal
With a lead-filled snow shoe
I said
With a lead (Lead)
Filled (Lead-Filled)
A lead-filled snow shoe (Snow Shoe)
He said: peek-a-boo (Peek-a-boo)
With a lead (Lead)
Filled (Lead-Filled)
With a lead-filled snow shoe (Snow Shoe)
He said: peek-a-boo (Peek-a-boo)", and so on...

Although in my wildest dreams I admit that 0.01% of Zappa's works may have been influenced by precursors of rap,
a chain reaction coming from one or two Zappa songs up to Public Enemy is a bit hard to believe.
A few spoken words on music does not make someone a rapper, it is a necessary condition but not sufficient IMO.


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