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do you wanna buy a pipco t-shirt?

It's pretty basic, FZ may have not been the first rapper, but the "Speak Music" he has done is definitely a predecessor to what is now consider Rap Music.

Those who choose to outright deny that ("Frank never rapped") or just hurl insults ("Same shit you’re stupid"), either have a strong dislike (maybe even hatred) of rap (which in itself may have an element of hidden racism.

There is no refuting a link between songs like “I am the Slime” and modern rap music.

What you trying too do turn this Thread it too Citizen Smith Thread.

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Arf you out of your fucking mind.

Where do you come up with this stuff ?? Racist ??? wow

I don't like rap because it reminds me of nursery rhymes

Little Miss Muffet sat on a tuffett , yo

Longs comes a spider sits down besides her , yo

Scared that bitch away , yo yo

Talk about banal and insipid ... definatly NOT racist , especailly with all the white kids wrappin

Goes to prove that ANYBODY can be a rapper .. as long as you know words like bitch , cunt and whore ...really intelligent music

You seem to be singeling out Gang'sta Rap, which I personally do not ador either, although there are still some catchy tunes in there by Snoop, 2-Pac, M'nM, and some others. The newer more mainstream stuff that is mixing a good rap line with some good singing and a catchy beat is rather enjoyable music in a social enviroment and is mandatory play in order to have a successful party when entertianing.

Your dislike of hard core rap through some bizarre connection with nursery rhymes can only be atributed to some sort of childhood trama real or perceived that must of occured while listening to a nursery rhyme. A therpist would certianly have a field day with that kind of association driven distian.

Right

and how how long have YOU had that delusion ?

Or do you just play a doctor in here ?

Come now, calm down.

I am no fan of rap, but am not a racist. Some of my best friends are white.

learn to play golf and get a good score!!

SUBTERRANEAN HOMESICK BLUES

first modern "proper" rap song...........1965.

rap's roots really can be seen going back to the early "auctioneers'
the way they "rapped" on the items up for sale.

Yes like people rap with they're mouth Granted.
But what about hip hop.where yo got too rap too the beat
Grandmaster Flash or FZ started doing it
The sugar hill gang had go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4o8TeqKhgY
Grandmaster Flash The Message HQ

still waiting for somebody too post something before 1979 that sounds more Hip Rapping before then.

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Arf you out of your fucking mind.

Here is more on this subject:

"Rapture" is a single by the American new wave band Blondie. It was released in January 1981 and became one of the first substantial hit singles to involve rap music, and the first rap-influenced single to reach number one on the US Billboard Chart. It was the second and final song to be released from the band's 1980 album Autoamerican, the first being "The Tide Is High", which had topped the chart in the US and UK. "Rapture" went on to reach number one on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100, number one on the U.S. Hot Dance Music/Club Play chart number 4 in Australia, and number five in the UK singles chart. The B-side was "Walk Like Me", also from Autoamerican.

"Rapture" is a combination of New Wave pop, funk, jazz and rap music, with the rap section forming an extended coda. While it was not the first single involving rap to be successful, it was the first to top the charts.[citation needed] The Sugarhill Gang's 1979 hit "Rapper's Delight", a straightforward rap track based on the backing track of Chic's "Good Times", reached #36 on the U.S. Hot 100 chart and was certified Gold. Kurtis Blow's "The Breaks" was released in 1980, and became the second rap single to be certified Gold. The lyrics of "Rapture" included references to hip-hop pioneers Fab Five Freddy and Grandmaster Flash.

See this is why I like Cleon so much, when he is not being a complete asshole he has some of the best most accurate information on the forum.

First diagnosis is free, the rest will cost you, you better get that checked though...

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Arf you out of your fucking mind.

The Clash 1980.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcHL8efKKPE

Absolutely and Mick Jones follow-up band BAD (Big Audio Dynamite...one of my personel favorites) has elements of Hip Hop strewned throw out their music, especially the album The Globe...but other nuggets appear on their releases as far back as the first "This Is Big Audio Dynamite".

WikiPedia:

The roots of hip hop are found in African-American music and ultimately African music. The griots of West Africa are a group of traveling singers and poets who are part of an oral tradition dating back hundreds of years. Their vocal style is similar to that of rappers.The African-American traditions of signifyin', the dozens, and jazz poetry are all descended from the griots. In addition, musical 'comedy' acts such as Rudy Ray Moore and Blowfly are considered by some to be the forefathers of rap.

Within New York City, griot-like performances of spoken-word poetry and music by artists such as The Last Poets, Gil Scott-Heron and Jalal Mansur Nuriddin had a significant impact on the post-civil rights era culture of the 1960s and 1970s.

Hip hop arose during the 1970s when block parties became increasingly popular in New York City, particularly in the Bronx, where African American and Puerto Rican influences combined. Block parties incorporated DJs who played popular genres of music, especially funk and soul music. Due to the positive reception, DJs began isolating the percussion breaks of popular songs. This technique was then common in Jamaican dub music and had spread to New York City via the substantial Jamaican immigrant community.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_hop_music

No mention of Zappa there.

The first time I heard the term rap was in a review by Jan Arne Handorff of Lou Reed's Live Take No Prisoners, probably in 1978. Handorff explained for his Norwegian readers this new phenomeneon, which he found relevant as a context for Reed's long talks between and during the songs of that album.

The word itself has been known in English for centuries with a number of meanings, such as 'to hit' and 'to say'.

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We make a special art in an environment hostile to dreamers. Frank Zappa, 1971

No offence , Plook , but you could probably make more money as a butcher so.....

I would rather take a bath in the spent rod cooling pool at the japan reactors than listen to rap.

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Confusion will be my epitaph

Put Promiscuous on repeat and see what happens!

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We make a special art in an environment hostile to dreamers. Frank Zappa, 1971

[quote="Dark Clothes"]WikiPedia: No mention of Zappa there. quote]


And we don't expect any, the only people that would notice that FZ's "Speak Music" was akin to rap, would be his fans. Now some seem to deny the association due to their personnel hatred for the music, others seem to think that because no so called experts address it, there is no connection. It is real simple Frank hung out with the brothers and sister and had to be familiar with what is known as (and I may have this wrong so don't hang me for it) "Stoop Rapping", which isn't even mentioned in the Wiki story. This was a form of story telling that would take place in ghetto neigborhoods on porchs and the crowd would gather as the story would reach a kind of poetry or song as the teller would at times greatly embelish it. I have heard that later with the advent of the boom box music was added to the back drop.

Any way you cut it there is a similarity, as I said before...when they got the new fangled Jux Box at a local watering hole it had Zappa on it, this bar leans country and besides those who I may have shared FZ with not many are very if at all familiar with his music. Well I played Cosmik Debris and Montana and more than one patron asked if it was some kind of rap music...From the mouth of babes.

I don't get into rap no matter who sings it.

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Confusion will be my epitaph

I ain't being ageist but With you be 60 years old,i never would had thought you would like rap

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Arf you out of your fucking mind.

Zappa wasn't a rapper, though I think he was aware of it's roots when he worked--what else could he have told Beefheart on Willie The Pimp but 'rap'?

I think it's really just a case of common influences; Zappa loved the blues, and he loved jazz. You can really see where he gets his 'rap' from Howlin Wolf's "Goin' Down Slow". (Or old John Lee Hooker albums).

Saying that rapping is just 'talking over rhythm' is like saying singing is just 'hitting notes over rhythm' and then saying throatsinging and Broadway-belting are similar. Rapping is it's own thing.

Zappa did do it--'Dumb All Over' is definitely rap, and obviously so is 'Promiscuous'--but they're not really great, no matter how much you might agree with them. (Killer groove in Dumb, though, and the solo--yow.)

Wow, Feral, good to see you man, how is it going?!

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The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

Very Interesting...

haha, yeah Plook, sorry to seem so contradictory-- I meant the last thing to be a retraction of my first statement. I kind of stand by it, though--even though Zappa explicitly attempted rap made 2 or 3 times in his career, I don't think of them as particularly good (the rapping, anyway), and on one of those tracks he doesn't even do the rap himself.

thinking a little more, though, you could certainly make a link between The Last Poets 'Jazzoetry' and Zappa's 'Dangerous Kitchen'--I'd just be wary of saying Zappa ever really did rap or hip hop. (He has been a huge influence on it, though, mostly because Zappa DID do Funk--and really, really well. Anyone here know J Dilla's album, 'Donuts'? Zappa makes an appearance on it, and the album is a masterpiece. The Lumpy Gravy of hip hop, for sure)

any heeeeeey, Mr. Green Genes! How're things going? Just popped in for awhile--I still go through periods of intense Zappa love, I just try to stagger it out a little more now that I get laid.