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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:03 am 
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Bobby wrote:
I am really happy to see the ZFT continue to release product that is of great quality but in all likelyhood isn't going to make much money- or any at all. Please remember that this is a very limited market - one that isn't growing too fast. (If FZ thought kids in 1969 wouldn't know good music if it bit them in the ass - what would he think today)).
I post all the Zappa news over at IMWAN. It is made up of all the former readers of ICE. I have to tell you - there is very little interest shown by the music geeks over there (Of which I am one).
If there is little interest there - then where is it? The local indy record stores are vanishing along with the music chains. (Will there be any music in the future?)

21 bucks is not unreasonable. When you think of all the costs involved - the preping of the material, the graphics, the artwork, the packaging, I do not know how they can break-even let alone make a profit. 21 bucks for GREAT product is a deal. You can squander 21 bucks pretty fast...here at least you have great music for a long time.

I am a Cost Accounting manager at the manufacturing firm where I work. (Another vanishing site on the American parire). I know first hand that there are a lot of hidden costs of doing business. They must be spread across the total qty you sell. Like it or not - FZ product is not going to sell as well as the shit that is popular today. The ZFT has to break even or make a profit or they are out of business. If that happens - the doors to the vault closes for a long time. At 57 years old - perhaps I can not wait out a long time.

Instead of bitching - either buy the product or go elsewhere. I for one don't mind paying a little extra - or even double of what I'd pay for other product...other inferior product.

Thank you Gail. Thank you to the ZFT. I hope that the releases keep on coming.

Bobby - a FZ fan since Ony Money.


I enjoyed your input here Bobby.
Would they have a complaint department where you work that has kept records since 1969.
What I see as the common denominator of the business is the overall artistic integrity model
in each package the ZFT offer. If it costs $21 bucks for a single Audio Documentary and we get
just what we are getting that is fine by me. Shipping is what shipping is through Music Today.
If someone wants to save soem shipping costs buy at the DZPZ concerts.
It coudl be hot or miss as to what product they are selling but anyone who wants to buy a Vaulternative or Zappa Records CD
you may save some money on shipping by purchasing at a show. I purchased Zappa Wazoo and a few other items at DZPZ concerts
and I have always saved a good sum of money on shipping. I buy gift CDs that way too.

I purchases two baseball tickets yesterday and my fees were $15 on two baseball tickets and they sell
45,000seat a game. If I went to the stadium and bought those tickets the ticketing fees would still be $10 on two tickets.
An average priced ticket at the new CITI-Fied where the NY Mets play is $100 a ticket
for a middle of the road ticket. The NY Mets make over 22 thousand dollars in ticketing fees on each and every sell out
and that does not include any income from shipping charges.

The ZFT have a lot of up front costs in getting that UMRK updated
and the operating costs and how many units these sell is not making them millions of cumulative releases
of all post RYKO FZ 93' Approved Masters releases in a bundle never mind one.

"Eat a grape, a fig
A crumpet too . . . "


You would think these so called Zappa fanatics food source comes from living out of dumpsters and garbage trucks.
The only elsewhere these fanatics have is thousands of AUD turds that in my opinion lower the return on investment quotient
of the ZFZ business. Then we can get into all that in the ballpark cover band performance with alumni ejectamenta quotients.
The standards that these fans set are so far off the coarse as to what Frank produced, Frank Toured, the ZFT produces and DZPZ delivers.
Some of these fans just expect it all for free, little to nothing or at a rate compared to a downtrend of MP3 worthlessness.
MP3 is the new Mr Green Genes.

These Audio Documentaries in CD MEdia Format are produced with so much in them from all around audio and visual perspective.
$21 is reasonable and expectant as to keep this form of product coming. I look at my entire Zappa CD & DVD product investment annually and the average person has higher cell phone costs than my investment in Barfko Swill merchandise and I buy each and every product pre-order. My cell phone costs me a total of $50 a year because I only use what I need to use. Hey on a big year of cell phone usage I spend $100. I don't chat, text or web surf unnecessary on Cell Phone technology. Factually I have never text or surfed on a cell phone.

Cell Phones...... NUTRITIOUSNESS, DELICIOUSNESS, WORTHLESSNESS.
What do I get by using only what I need in cell phone technology is my
yearly budget to by all Official Zappa Audio and Visual product through Barfko Swill.
Mamby Pamby cry babies these fanaskeptasaureous are.

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FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:24 am 
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21 bucks is not bad. A new "cd" on itunes is $9.99. Zappa music is easily twice as good as Justin Bieber or Lady Gaga, plus it's a physical disc and it's bound to sell less than either of those two cum slurpers.

HOWEVER, I am sick of the shipping cost. It is unreasonable and I told myself I wouldn't order through them again. All this stuff shows up on amazon used or eBay eventually. We'll see how I hold up as I want this release real bad.

Trendy, don't attempt to defend their shipping costs. ZFT needs a new provider as the shipping prices (to get the product in any reasonable amount of time) cannot come to less than 28 dollars. THAT IS OBSCENE. AND ITS NOT EVEN 2-DAY OR OVERNIGHT!!! There is no defense, the price is FAR too high. Give yourself up, you are completely surrounded, give yourself up.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:27 am 
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Grimpoteuthis wrote:
21 bucks is not bad. A new "cd" on itunes is $9.99. Zappa music is easily twice as good as Justin Bieber or Lady Gaga, plus it's a physical disc and it's bound to sell less than either of those two cum slurpers.

HOWEVER, I am sick of the shipping cost. It is unreasonable and I told myself I wouldn't order through them again. All this stuff shows up on amazon used or eBay eventually. We'll see how I hold up as I want this release real bad.

Trendy, don't attempt to defend their shipping costs. ZFT needs a new provider as the shipping prices (to get the product in any reasonable amount of time) cannot come to less than 28 dollars. THAT IS OBSCENE. AND ITS NOT EVEN 2-DAY OR OVERNIGHT!!! There is no defense, the price is FAR too high. Give yourself up, you are completely surrounded, give yourself up.


Hey let's get something straight.
Music Today is turn key operation with many clients.
They are the ones with shipping fees.

Show me a turn key mail order operation such as music today that is fair
for both the client and the individual buying the goods.
Is Amazon a turn key operation . NO.

Image
http://www.musictoday.com/default.asp

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:45 am 
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Shipping costs put me off too.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:48 am 
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Zut_boF wrote:
we can see by the numbers of post here that we slowing down on every each next release.

i dont want to be negative but its what i see.

Thanks for this new cd ZFT!!


It's only slowing down because it is Ruben as opposed to Lumpy/Money. As much as some of us love it, it just isn't a "key" release. Hot Rats will bring more enthusiasm.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:27 pm 
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As I remember - not all Zappa fans in my crowd (6?) liked this LP. I did as did a couple of others. To some it sounded like stuff from the 50's - stuff 10 years old. I love this LP but I knew long ago it was not for every FZ fan.

I remember hearing the Only Money Ryco out-takes - there seemed to be a long jam of the outro section of Stuff Up the Cracks - I hope that is included but I think not.

Question for those who might know. Was this also released in MONO? It would be cool if it had both versions. I think they posted a sample of Valarie on this site last year and IMO that is worth the price alone. I too have a clean copy on CDR of the original but I already ordered two copies of this (next day delivery). The more ZAPPA the better.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:41 pm 
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Bobby wrote:
As I remember - not all Zappa fans in my crowd (6?) liked this LP. I did as did a couple of others. To some it sounded like stuff from the 50's - stuff 10 years old. I love this LP but I knew long ago it was not for every FZ fan.

I remember hearing the Only Money Ryco out-takes - there seemed to be a long jam of the outro section of Stuff Up the Cracks - I hope that is included but I think not.

Question for those who might know. Was this also released in MONO? It would be cool if it had both versions. I think they posted a sample of Valarie on this site last year and IMO that is worth the price alone. I too have a clean copy on CDR of the original but I already ordered two copies of this (next day delivery). The more ZAPPA the better.


There was one briefly released in England until MGM stopped distribution of Verve there. I think I heard that it wasn't "true" mono, but mono stripped down from the stereo version.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:11 pm 
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RogerDaltreysCape wrote:
Zut_boF wrote:
we can see by the numbers of post here that we slowing down on every each next release.

i dont want to be negative but its what i see.

Thanks for this new cd ZFT!!


It's only slowing down because it is Ruben as opposed to Lumpy/Money. As much as some of us love it, it just isn't a "key" release. Hot Rats will bring more enthusiasm.
Good point :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:47 pm 
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Each and every release has had a variety of bitches and complaints.
As I have been saying for years.
The Roxy Video project will be released in a video format(s)
and a variety of bitches and complains will surface regarding
the release of that fanatical holy grail. You can already see large amounts of fanaskeptasaureous steam
coming through the nostrils regarding that project and we do not even have a press release on that one yet.

When I use to play lots of paddle ball with a group of guys
we would go out to dinner one night a week in a group after playing hours of ball.
One guy Yudi had a way of complaining each and every outing regardless of what place we ate at.
It was in his DNA to complain to the waiter and house management.
He was a nice guy but if you were providing a service for Yudi you expected lots of shit.
I did some PC work for him and thankfully he dared not complain. He made me an omelete
with some crushed up matza during one of my tuning and upgrade visits and that was his idea of cooking.
Yeah Yudi please spare me at what we eat out. I would hate returning to a given restaurant with this guy because he always
each and every time had a complaint fro the waiter and management staff.

Sure it is reasonable to complain if the service was bad or their was a problem with your food order
but lots of these places had good food and good service where I had no problem saying I would return to
eat again or questioned a 20% tip. Yudi was looking for someone in the back of the house to spit in his food.
Thank god we never ate at McDonalds or any fast food establishment because those are the type of places
where young adolescent minds work where spiting on a burger is about what you would expect.

I am quite happy that I rarely have dined with Yudi in the last 5 years.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:02 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
Grimpoteuthis wrote:
21 bucks is not bad. A new "cd" on itunes is $9.99. Zappa music is easily twice as good as Justin Bieber or Lady Gaga, plus it's a physical disc and it's bound to sell less than either of those two cum slurpers.

HOWEVER, I am sick of the shipping cost. It is unreasonable and I told myself I wouldn't order through them again. All this stuff shows up on amazon used or eBay eventually. We'll see how I hold up as I want this release real bad.

Trendy, don't attempt to defend their shipping costs. ZFT needs a new provider as the shipping prices (to get the product in any reasonable amount of time) cannot come to less than 28 dollars. THAT IS OBSCENE. AND ITS NOT EVEN 2-DAY OR OVERNIGHT!!! There is no defense, the price is FAR too high. Give yourself up, you are completely surrounded, give yourself up.


Hey let's get something straight.
Music Today is turn key operation with many clients.
They are the ones with shipping fees.

Show me a turn key mail order operation such as music today that is fair
for both the client and the individual buying the goods.
Is Amazon a turn key operation . NO.

Image
http://www.musictoday.com/default.asp


Let's see, I order for MooseMart often, as well as Ralph America, and there shipping is nowhere near as expensive. CD-Baby also has provided me with several small run cd's for reasonable prices. Oh, and StoreBelew which Adrian and Martha Belew started off modeled on Franks mail-order design. All of these companies provide reasonable shipping and worthwhile sales every once in awhile. (Getting a discount on cassette tapes? I mean come the fuck on)

Furthermore, Keneally, Residents, and co. don't have nearly the selling power of Frank so they have more of an excuse if their shipping was priced high.

Music today is making a profit on the shipping costs which is bullshit, and unprofessional. Shipping costs should be what it costs to ship the product whereas the markup on the MSRP is where the profit should SOLEY rely. So either, they're skimming off the top, or they don't care to find a better shipping partner.

Disclaimer, my girlfriend works at Fedex Office, shipping a cd through them in 3-5 days cost less than $11 for individuals, I'm sure corporate accounts save even more for being guaranteed business. Musictoday is price-gouging plain and simple if they aren't they should hire me or anyone with half a brain to see where else they are wasting dough.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:08 am 
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just checked RalphAmerica. 6.70 for priority flat rate (usually 3-5) days. This is not for the bullshit low priority media-mail option which basically tells the post office that the package can sit around for a bit before delivery despite being more the capable of having the package reach you. (an option which I would take only if it were FREE)

EDIT: I couldn't check Keneally again although I ordered scambot recently and don't remember getting pissed off at the shipping page like I do every time (less often now) that I go to Barfko-Swill (whose name suddenly becomes oddly appropiate)

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:29 am 
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I usually order from our supplier here in Germany: http://www.jpc.de. They offer the stuff with little delay. But I can wait these days.

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/home/search?fas ... erby=score

They ship worldwide. Here are their shipping-costs:
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/home/static/-/l ... page/porto

Inside of Germany orders over 50 Euros are free of shipping-costs.

They used to have shops in several cities for decades but sadly they have closed down all of them recently and do mailorder only.

Th.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:26 am 
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Grimpoteuthis wrote:
just checked RalphAmerica. 6.70 for priority flat rate (usually 3-5) days. This is not for the bullshit low priority media-mail option which basically tells the post office that the package can sit around for a bit before delivery despite being more the capable of having the package reach you. (an option which I would take only if it were FREE)

EDIT: I couldn't check Keneally again although I ordered scambot recently and don't remember getting pissed off at the shipping page like I do every time (less often now) that I go to Barfko-Swill (whose name suddenly becomes oddly appropiate)


I ordered Scambot yesterday, and the shipping charge was $3.37--totally reasonable. Plus, they emailed me later in the day to say that the CD had been shipped.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:41 am 
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Ordered it, can't wait for this. I too am disgusted by musictoday's shipping costs, $6+ and tax for mailing a CD from VA to NY. But it's Zappa music, so I'll let it go. If I was seeing ZPZ in May I'd wait and get it then, but won't be at a show til 6/29, too long a wait.

Henry Rollins is another one who handed his mailorder business over to those pricks. He has a book and a new talking CD that I'd like, but I refuse to order it from them. I'll wait til those items hit amazon, or else if he does a show in my town.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:57 am 
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Another, to one heretic, thought: I was wondering whether it is not a bit misleading to sell this title as "Greasy Love Songs"? Why not just call it CWRATJ? And then announce that it contains extras? The MOFO and Lumpy Money did signal by the title that they were about particular albums.

In other words, how much extra material warrants a new title? (ZINY was not renamed for CD even though it contained quite a few extras..., nor was BTHW)

I am just wondering. (I am not misled, as I know about the process and the series and so on, but what about non-hardcore fans? - maybe there are so few that it doesn't really matter......)

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:30 am 
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PenguinInBondage wrote:
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
three disc set


April Fool's! :mrgreen:


I should have filed that under "The Pre-Order for the Complete Roxy DVD/CD Boxset" has started. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am 
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HJ wrote:
Another, to one heretic, thought: I was wondering whether it is not a bit misleading to sell this title as "Greasy Love Songs"? Why not just call it CWRATJ? And then announce that it contains extras? The MOFO and Lumpy Money did signal by the title that they were about particular albums.



They can't call it CWRATJ or use the original cover due to Ryko.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:45 am 
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pbuzby wrote:
HJ wrote:
Another, to one heretic, thought: I was wondering whether it is not a bit misleading to sell this title as "Greasy Love Songs"? Why not just call it CWRATJ? And then announce that it contains extras? The MOFO and Lumpy Money did signal by the title that they were about particular albums.



They can't call it CWRATJ or use the original cover due to Ryko.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. They probably don't have the licensing rights to release it that way.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:51 am 
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Fred_Zappelin wrote:
Henry Rollins is another one who handed his mailorder business over to those pricks. He has a book and a new talking CD that I'd like, but I refuse to order it from them. I'll wait til those items hit amazon, or else if he does a show in my town.


I just saw Henry in Kent , Ohio on April 1. Great show as always. I bought the new book (A Mad Dash) for $15, and the new double-CD (Spoken Word Guy) for $10.

I hope that he comes to your neck of the woods soon :)

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 3:57 pm 
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pbuzby wrote:
HJ wrote:
Another, to one heretic, thought: I was wondering whether it is not a bit misleading to sell this title as "Greasy Love Songs"? Why not just call it CWRATJ? And then announce that it contains extras? The MOFO and Lumpy Money did signal by the title that they were about particular albums.



They can't call it CWRATJ or use the original cover due to Ryko.


Sounds reasonable. For how long is Ryko sitting on the rights?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:30 pm 
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I stopped coming here years ago. But as I return, probably for the last time, I see nothing has changed. CDs are overpriced by $5. MP3s are overpriced by $5... and there's STILL no advance information about what is being sold. Apparently, most of the people here just enjoy being shit on.

We all love Frank's music. Everything else about this place is insulting, from a couple of the posters (that self promoting ass, http://www.myspace.com/johnnytuscaderodrums, comes to mind first) to the way Frank's most dedicated fans are treated. Only Dweezil has done ANYTHING to draw new generations to Frank's music. No disrespect to Joe's fine work.

Thank god for downloading, because ZFT will never get another penny from me... until they start treating the fans properly. The outragious prices are only sending fans - and especially, POTENTIAL fans - away.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:33 pm 
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Totally agreed on the exorbitant shipping costs. Their cheapest international option is roughly twice for almost anything else I've ever bought on the internet. It means I end up paying almost twice the already high disc price ($37 US this time). I'm not into whinging but this needs to be addressed and makes it very hard to buy, which I still do because I just have to have these releases.

Maybe we should put some kind of petition together and send it to Gail.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:51 pm 
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tweezers wrote:
I think that a audiodocumentary of UM and HR would be the BFD. Considering much of this music was made over a year or so period, why not lump them together like LM - as a matter of fact, throw in BWS too, make it a real doozy!!
Personally I think I think it would be a mistake to mix these two albums up. One of them is the height of FZ's first big phase in music with a large eclectic bunch of freaks producing an album which is bursting at the seams like some alternative universe and the other is after he's let that go and used a handful of professional studio musicians to produce a very different type of album which is much more guitar heavy and jazz oriented. They're both brilliant, but they're both very different. When you listen to them for the first time it's just awe inspiring that they're by the same person.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:19 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
Totally agreed on the exorbitant shipping costs. Their cheapest international option is roughly twice for almost anything else I've ever bought on the internet. It means I end up paying almost twice the already high disc price ($37 US this time). I'm not into whinging but this needs to be addressed and makes it very hard to buy, which I still do because I just have to have these releases.

Maybe we should put some kind of petition together and send it to Gail.


Hey Gail, charge him more next time! He's gotta have 'em!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:03 pm 
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I never bought the Ruben album pre 1993. I never saw it anywhere until the Ryko release. After hearing all the bad shit about the mix and the drums and stuff I said I'll wait till they do it properly, so this is going to be virgin release for me. Being in Australia I just have to pay extra, so I may wait again till it's off pre order and get something else with it to maximize on the shipping costs.

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