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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:31 pm 
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Hometown Sausage Jamboree wrote:
Still waiting on mine. I should get it Saturday. I'm sure it will be a fun release. But, part of me asks:

"Do we really need yet another version of 'Dancin' Fool', Tryin' To Grow a Chin', 'I Have Been In You', 'Broken Hearts...', 'Bobby Brown', 'Dinah-Moe Humm', 'Camarillo Brillo', and 'Muffin Man'?"

I mean I'm barely familiar with what kind of craziness the vault has to offer, but even I'm somewhat aware of things like 'Twenty-One', 'Twinkle-Tits', or even 'Village of the Sun (1978)'... or you know, unreleased songs. But, hell at this point, I'd even pay good money to hear alternative arrangements (or even prototypes) of songs ('Why Does It Hurt When I Pee?', Black Page with Vinnie, etc...).

I don't know about shelling out $50+ for 1/3 interesting content. I mean, I did it this time on good faith (I'm rarely disappointed with a new release). But, there's gotta be some different stuff out there just waiting to come out, ya know?

Maybe I just shouldn't talk before I hear the whole thing. I don't know.


I hear ya HSJ and felt many of the same things you stated before receiving my copy. I hope you're as pleasantly surprised as I was! (Although some of the gems you mention sure would be nice!) :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:53 am 
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OK, I've listened to it a few times and I think the mix is sophomoric -- still, I like this little bitch of a punk-era, high-class field recording - the synth players shine with their patented little brassy, sometimes spooky EML patches and searing Mini Moog work -- the bass player's contribution remains anybody's guess, but man, it's well-worth straining your ears a little for your daily share of O'Hearn-isms

-- Thumbs up, ZFT, and thank you very, very kindly :)


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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:00 am 
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buffalo_voice wrote:
blahblah -- still, I like this little bitch of a punk-era, high-class field recording -- blahblah


My sentiment exactly! In spite of possible flaws, this is a healthy, big little bugger! I enjoy it right now, Punky's Whips is on at the moment 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:50 am 
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Dark Clothes wrote:
buffalo_voice wrote:
blahblah
Nice roundup! :P
I could easily think of it like as an an augmented drums-synth-voice/guitar power trio -- with nice rack tom tunings and vocal timbres -


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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:08 am 
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No offense intended, bv! It's just too boring to quote the previous post at lenght sometimes...

My revelation from yesterday's session with HO was Disco Boy, by the way. Who could imagine? Goes to show how rich this set is, even with so many familiar songs.

The Baby Snakes album is pretty much redundant after this IMO. Guess I won't have to upgrade from cassette, then, as if I'd had any such plans 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:26 am 
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Finally got it. A really nice release. The King Kong solo chord progression is definitely a rarity, and many other small gems are there as well. Only quibble is that they play a rather short "Little House..."; so no "SY Tango". But lots of other great material. (And nice to hear Envelopes with vocals so one can understand the choice to release it on SATLTSADW without the absurdly puerile lyrics).

Clearly one of the better posthumous live releases!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:37 am 
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Dark Clothes wrote:
The Baby Snakes album is pretty much redundant after this IMO. Guess I won't have to upgrade from cassette, then, as if I'd had any such plans 8)

Agreed, DC, apart from stellar mixing, having (what must be) a 100 mistakes less than HO, an incredibly gifted fretless bass player that's actually heard in the mix, a far more organic waveform structure and the patented Eff Zeeh kick drum click, there's apparently no reason for even thinking of getting that old soundtrack album out once again -- :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:06 am 
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And speaking of waveforms:

Muffin Man from Hammersmith Odeon:
Image

Muffin Man from Bongo Fury
Image

Of course, the former is way louder than the latter, but it is also much more compressed. There is no visible clipping in the Hammersmith Odeon track, but clearly not quite as dynamic a sound as on BF (well, this tune is by nature not very dynamic in sound any way).

But these are the signs of the times, and Filipetti does it the modern style. Whether it is "teh intent of the artist" we will never know.

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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:43 am 
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HJ,
Thanks for the sound wave comparison. Granted, you're right "Muffin Man" isn't the most dynamic song by nature (not counting the intro verses) but yes, it's nice to see the comparison all the same. There are certainly much *worse* examples in the industry but it makes your point known. Thanks...

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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:57 am 
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I have been listening to this thing for a week now. Simple conclusion: this album is totally superfluous because Sheik Yerbouti exists. Frank has already made something out of the recordings of those concerts. It is no good idea to release the remnants that have been sorted out by the artist himself.

Shelved it.

Th.

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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:59 am 
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Thinman wrote:
I have been listening to this thing for a week now. Simple conclusion: this album is totally superfluous because Sheik Yerbouti exists. Frank has already made something out of the recordings of those concerts. It is no good idea to release the remnants that have been sorted out by the artist himself.

Shelved it.

Th.


Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:56 am 
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Thinman wrote:
It is no good idea to release the remnants that have been sorted out by the artist himself.

I hear ya, Thm. -- Though I think everyone here would agree that this is not remotely a thing that Frank would have released like this, I for one must say that for me, this one's much easier to enjoy than the 1972 or 1975/6 stuff, and that's for two reasons: The band's pretty tight (Wazoo on the road to my ears sounded a tiny wee bit like a high-class highschool brass band) and punky (he he!) enough to warrant a (though glossy-type) beat-the-bootleggers kind of field release -- That's what it's for me -- a 3 hour 1978 state-of-affairs audio documentary comprising of much preliminarity (much like watching a decade-old daily news show on history channel, complete with sideburns, epaulets, warts 'n all) rather than a definitive statement.

It's extra-glossy beat the boots for the dedicated, IMHO, I must admit that I'm sorta too soft-core handled to feel at ease with each of these (see above), but sometimes they're rather cool --
IMO, the mix is strange but in a funny kind of way, perhaps a good sign that Filipetti's still not totally (brain-) dead yet --


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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:07 am 
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buffalo_voice wrote:
… this one's much easier to enjoy than the 1972 or 1975/6 stuff …

… Wazoo on the road to my ears sounded a tiny wee bit like a high-class highschool brass ensemble …

… the mix is strange but in a funny kind of way, perhaps Filipetti's still not totally (brain-) dead yet …


Agreed.

Th.

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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:08 am 
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Still, 55 minutes is short -- 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:29 am 
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Didn't Gail say once that they don't release Frank Zappa records anymore because they don't know exactly what he would done? Something in that vein.

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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:21 am 
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buffalo_voice wrote:
I for one must say that for me, this one's much easier to enjoy than the 1972 or 1975/6 stuff, and that's for two reasons: The band's pretty tight (Wazoo on the road to my ears sounded a tiny wee bit like a high-class highschool brass band) and punky (he he!) enough to warrant a (though glossy-type) beat-the-bootleggers kind of field release -- That's what it's for me -- a 3 hour 1978 state-of-affairs audio documentary comprising of much preliminarity (much like watching a decade-old daily news show on history channel, complete with sideburns, epaulets, warts 'n all) rather than a definitive statement.

Agreed. This is by far my favorite posthumous live release. First glance at the tracklist made me think, "Ugh, do I really need more versions of these songs?" However, the energy level is high enough that I really enjoyed the set. Plus, I definitely prefer the performances here over the ones in Baby Snakes.

I really wanted to like Wazoo and Imaginary Diseases more, considering how much I love The Grand Wazoo and Waka/Jawaka, but there's just something about those discs that leave me cold.


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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:04 am 
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Fuck waveforms, and headphones! Play it on your loudspeakers, tweak your system, forget that you're an audiophile and go with the flow of the music!

You can do that with Buffalo also, and enjoy some of Frank's sickest guitar playing captured on professional recording equipment!

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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:09 am 
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Dark Clothes wrote:
Fuck waveforms, and headphones! Play it on your loudspeakers, tweak your system, forget that you're an audiophile and go with the flow of the music!

You can do that with Buffalo also, and enjoy some of Frank's sickest guitar playing captured on professional recording equipment!


People who say this do not have a great system, lol, m i rite

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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:36 pm 
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You're so right, Calvin, but I still enjoy my music more than many certified oh-dear-oh-no-o-philes... Your namesake, Schenkel, doesn't have a fine arts degree, either. Do you like his stuff?


Dark Clothes wrote:
Zut_boF wrote:
most of real hi-fi system dont have treble and bass button.

I know, you know I shouldn't really talk about the finer issues of hi-fi because I'm not equipped and don't have the passion for it. Filipetti's Hammersmith mix sounds good to me, only a bit bassy [it has many bass frequencies, but mostly not from the bass guitar, unfortunately], but you people with the graphs and stuff can fight it out later and I'll absorb!


Most great recorded music in this world is published with much less sound fidelity than these Vaulternative releases. Should I stop enjoying that music, then?

Buffalo Voice - can you honestly argue that most Sun Ra records have healthier waveforms than HO or Buffalo? Or that the free jazz canon in general is better recorded than the average Vaulternative release?

Are you just as bothered by the phasing in Brian Jones' recordings of the Master Musicians of Jou Jouka as by the occasional phasing effects applied by mr. Filipetti? And does that mean that you had to shelf that great document of North African music after a few cursory listens?

What about Beefheart's Strictly Personal? Unlistenable and shelved also?

And does anyone here think the horrible version of WPLJ from Does Humor Belong In Music is valuable, while Pound For A Brown from HO is waste, just because Zappa himself mixed and issued the former, while the latter is a posthumous release, treated with a slightly different esthetic approach than your own?

Calvin, your smug remark puts me right back to 1978, when the definition of an audiophile with a big expensive hi-fi system was A baldheaded, fat, middle-aged, complacent, ignorant bore with no sense of what's going on. That's the punk attitude that Zappa was playing with and circumlocuting in his own way around the time of these recordings.

"The sound quality is not as clear as other parts of the album, but what the fuck..."

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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:57 pm 
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The size of our ears make a difference on how we individualy hear the sound. Frank has big ears thats why his recording are less bassy because big ears like that catch more bass. i have small african ears so i am hearing less bass ,so i need more. I always find Zappa sound to high in frequency.

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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:02 pm 
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Zut_boF wrote:
The size of our ears make a difference on how we individualy hear the sound. Frank has big ears thats why his recording are less bassy because big ears like that catch more bass. i have small african ears so i am hearing less bass ,so i need more. I always find Zappa sound to high in frequency.


Funny, I always pegged you for a medium-sized Haitian-eared fella.... :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:21 pm 
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Zut_boF wrote:
The size of our ears make a difference on how we individualy hear the sound. Frank has big ears thats why his recording are less bassy because big ears like that catch more bass. i have small african ears so i am hearing less bass ,so i need more. I always find Zappa sound to high in frequency.

Wouldn't head phones squash that theory? After the flap,it's all the same crap inside. :idea: :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:45 pm 
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Dark Clothes wrote:
You're so right, Calvin, but I still enjoy my music more than many certified oh-dear-oh-no-o-philes... Your namesake, Schenkel, doesn't have a fine arts degree, either. Do you like his stuff?


No worries. I've got a system that's about 20 years old, with mismatched speakers, It sounds good enough for me. I've never had the money to really invest in that kind of thing, anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:04 pm 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
No worries. I've got a system that's about 20 years old, with mismatched speakers, It sounds good enough for me. I've never had the money to really invest in that kind of thing, anyway.

Bah, unless you're wanting to sink $5K into new equipment, vintage is the way to go. My amp is almost 50 years old, and I love it.


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 Post subject: Re: Hammersmith Odeon
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:57 pm 
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madcow1515 wrote:
calvin2hikers wrote:
No worries. I've got a system that's about 20 years old, with mismatched speakers, It sounds good enough for me. I've never had the money to really invest in that kind of thing, anyway.

Bah, unless you're wanting to sink $5K into new equipment, vintage is the way to go. My amp is almost 50 years old, and I love it.


I have speaker wire that was found in the tomb of Kefren (AKA, The Sphinx). It's the best speaker wire ever.

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