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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:44 am 
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How would the Old Masters Box LPs rate among all this, since they seem to be from digital transfer masters?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:03 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
How would the Old Masters Box LPs rate among all this, since they seem to be from digital transfer masters?
Only in it for the money,Lumpy gravy Zappa records(UK)(ryko usa) CD got the Copyright date at the time the Old Masters.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:04 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
How would the Old Masters Box LPs rate among all this, since they seem to be from digital transfer masters?

Mostly they're they same as the CDs, but with some variations. Hot Rats is the most important one, but here's another titbit for insane completists --

The Old Masters vinyl

We're Only In It for the Money was one of the albums re-released on vinyl in the Old Masters box 1. It was not taken from an old master; instead it used the 1984 digital remix (which seems to sound better here, thanks to better mastering).


http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/vinylvscds/money.html#oldmasters

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:32 am 
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Cilla CRAPP :smoke:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:00 pm 
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cleon wrote:
Cilla CRAPP :smoke:

To be honest I don't know what the fuck you're talking about most of the time. Cilla Black hurt you?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:07 pm 
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Dark Clothes wrote:
cleon wrote:
Cilla CRAPP :smoke:

To be honest I don't know what the fuck you're talking about most of the time. Cilla Black hurt you?

Tuff :smoke:
Same here.l

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:50 pm 
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Dark Clothes wrote:
Mostly they're they same as the CDs, but with some variations. Hot Rats is the most important one


I believe the records from the 1990 "bad batch" (Chunga's, Fillmore, JABFLA, Zoot) do not have the same problems in the Old Masters versions.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:27 pm 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
How would the Old Masters Box LPs rate among all this, since they seem to be from digital transfer masters?


I've got Box Two. Don't bother. Get the old Bizarre or Reprise LPs.

All of the Old Masters Box Two LPs have the same digital reverb that Frank added to the CDs. They all sound a bit better than the CDs except for Uncle Meat (which sounds worse, if you can believe that), but none of them sound as good as the original LPs.

Hot Rats does have the original mix, though. It's just not dry like the original LP. Same is true for "Mr. Green Genes" on Uncle Meat.

Also, there is a skip (or one-second edit) on "Prelude to the Afternoon of a Sexually Aroused Gas Mask" on Weasels Ripped My Flesh. It's just missing. Who knows why?

The only album of these that I don't have an original of is Just Another Band From L.A. I've got Reprise copies of Uncle Meat, Chunga, and Fillmore, Bizarre copies of Weasels and Fillmore, a Bizarre promo of Burnt Weeny Sandwich, and the Classic Records Hot Rats, which sounds like the original. All of them sound better than the Old Masters LPs.

What is good about the Old Masters Box is that the vinyl is very quiet and the replica sleeves look beautiful. Also, the Mystery Disc sounds pretty good. That's about it.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:52 pm 
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I have all three boxes, I was just wondering on the necessity of getting the albums all over again. If it is for the sake of the best sound, I will probably go out for it then... I am just about to receive a big purchase with lots of original 80s Zappa LPs...

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:02 pm 
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i too have all 3 OM boxes but haven't listened to them in YEARS. The Hot Rats is unique that it is very close the original mix (it's not as dry as the original LP) and it's not reconstructed like the CD.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:21 pm 
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Anyone know how the Absolutely Free LP compares to the cd edition?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:28 pm 
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http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/v ... _free.html

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:03 pm 
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dlokazip wrote:
Hot Rats does have the original mix, though. It's just not dry like the original LP. Same is true for "Mr. Green Genes" on Uncle Meat.

I did some record browsing over the weekend and came across a stand-alone copy of Hot Rats from the Old Masters set. I considered buying it, but I couldn't remember if it was supposed to be similar to the CD remix or the original mix. Ultimately, I decided $25 wasn't worth the gamble, and I already own two copies of Hot Rats on vinyl as it is (the original Bizarre and the Classic Records reissue), and I've become slightly less insane with my FZ collecting in recent years. It seems I made the right decision.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:59 am 
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I never found the reverb on the '95 Ryko versions of FO, WOIIFTM and LG particularly offensive but when I got them all on original US Verve I did (and still do) prefer the drier original mixes. Some of the editing and separation just sounds...... well, sharper?
I'm also a stickler for original things like the uncut "Girl!" at the end of You Didn't Try to Call Me and the slightly extended fade out of Go Cry.
As for Absolutely Free, I had that on CD first. The previous issue to the '95 Ryko release. When I then got a nice original US Verve Stereo copy I thought it sounded almost identical but lacked the umph that the CD had.
I'd say that was true for all of the above. I decent turntable and pick-up can do wonders for that though.

It's relevant to add that I go for all original lps of this era - UK Hendrix Track etc..... It then became a way of life and for me, the pleasure is all about having the absolute original mix. Nothing beats the UK mono mix for example of Axis Bold As Love. It is f@cking outstanding.

Anyway, back to Zappa. I have never heard and never want to hear the CD version of UM as I have only heard bad things about it on this forum. The original Bizarre realease with the blue and green labels sounds unlike anything that I have heard, let alone for '69. The sound is crystal clear and dry as Gandhi's flip-flop.

Not quite a comparison I know but, I cannot imagine Weasels sounding better on CD. Take Directly From My Heart to You. F@ck me! The sound is again so damned good on the original RSLP release. Many of the instrumentation on those tunes leaps off the vinyl and fills the room. There's an underlying bassy hum that CD's cannot reproduce.

My copy of Burnt Weeny on UK Steamboat however is not in the same category but has it's own great sound and atmosphere. I listened to an audio version the other day on youtube (which one would assume was uploaded from the '95 Ryko release) and Holiday Full Blown had been totally messed with in my opinion. Zappa had brought right to the front various parts of the percussion that were far too loud and the two drummer interplay that was perfectly separated on the original mix was destroyed. That was a masterpiece in every respect on the original vinyl.

Someone earlier mentioned the loss of perfect separation on Chungas (was in Jaypfunk?).
Shame, because again that's what attracts me to the originals (in general).

Most of the rest of my Zappa collection I have only ever had on vinyl and the '80's orchestral stuff and Francesco Zappa and all of the posthumus releases I obviously have on CD

Not quite a comprehensice comparison but something that I feel quite passionate about -there is my 2 cents worth.

Oh, and finally..... I grew up to know HR on original RSLP vinyl and when I started listening to my Dad's '80's CD I heard loads of differences. You all know about those though.
When I was buying my latest hi-fi separates I took my vinyl Hot Rats to demo. Mainly because I knew how it sounded on my then currrent set up but also because I knew just how those opening bars of Peaches made the hairs on my neck and arms stand up. Something I cannot say for the CD.
That lovely 'grunting noise' of the guitar right before Beefheart sings at the beginning of Wille the Pimp doesn't sound as good on the CD either. It rumbles your stomach on the original as it leaps out from the vinyl.
They always seem to tweak things like this for CD mastering and it takes away so much (for me that is).
The CD version of Peaches has all sorts of little differences too. Why oh why?
All those poor people that do not have the enjoyment of the originals....... :cry:

PS. I can vouch for that strange little bit of out of synchness on BSDMI on the original mono version of AF. I haven't listened to it in over 10 years but I do have a copy

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:15 pm 
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It's OK to say FUCK here!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 4:09 pm 
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I don't have a record player, but some of the flac downloads of vinyl records sound very good.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:39 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
It's OK to say FUCK here!


Thank FUCK for that! I wondered where the FUCK everybody had FUCKING gone.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:26 am 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
I don't have a record player, but some of the flac downloads of vinyl records sound very good.

Agreed, I do not think my ears can distinguish my LPs from the Flac transfers I made of them.
Whatever this thread is not an analog vs digital debate.

Regarding CWRATJ, I guess that most people here have no doubts that the regular CD sounds way different as it is heavily remixed with drum 'n bass overdubs.
Now since Greasy Love Songs has been released, I have to say that although it has been built from the original mix and probably sounds cleaner that an old scratched LP, I almost never listened to it because this master it is much more compressed than the vinyl's.
On GLS, all tracks peak very close to 0dB in many areas and several are clipped.

MGM Verve V6 5055-X versus Zappa ZR 20010:

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I mean I can hear a big difference, it is not just a matter of graphics.
The graphics are just an explanation.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:31 am 
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Most of my Ryko CDs skip. Plus they had to much reverb on them. LPs have the warmth and "natural" amibience the CDs lack as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:07 pm 
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Went to a CD/record show this past Sunday, with this thread in mind. Grabbed Chunga's Revenge(Reprise) for $5, and Overnite Sensation(Discreet) for $4, both in great shape.

Wow, Chunga's on vinyl is WAY better. You can hear background vocals and keyboards much clearer, drums sound better too. I didn't think there was that much of a difference between the '95 CD and Discreet vinyl of OS.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:13 am 
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How is MOFO disc 1 compared to the FO vinyl?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:43 am 
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I suspect a lot of the complaints about CDs (and other digital media) in general come from the circumstances that people listen with crap equipment (computers, iPods, cheap multiformat players). The surprise with vinyl records comes when only then they would use their real hifi equipment.

Th.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:11 am 
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Thinman wrote:
I suspect a lot of the complaints about CDs (and other digital media) in general come from the circumstances that people listen with crap equipment (computers, iPods, cheap multiformat players). The surprise with vinyl records comes when only then they would use their real hifi equipment.

Th.


maybe with some stuff but in the case of the FZ approved CDs the biggest complaint is the remix and blatant butchering of the original LP mixes with all that digi-verb. I don't care what you play it on the sound is crap no matter what

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:12 am 
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Soracha wrote:
How is MOFO disc 1 compared to the FO vinyl?


very very close. no complaints from me about the MOFO CD

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:14 am 
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Fred_Zappelin wrote:
Went to a CD/record show this past Sunday, with this thread in mind. Grabbed Chunga's Revenge(Reprise) for $5, and Overnite Sensation(Discreet) for $4, both in great shape.

Wow, Chunga's on vinyl is WAY better. You can hear background vocals and keyboards much clearer, drums sound better too. I didn't think there was that much of a difference between the '95 CD and Discreet vinyl of OS.


You are 100% correct on Chunga but you are totally off base with OS. The OS LP is so much warmer than the CD. The CD is once again saturated with too much reverb especially on the vocals.

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