Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:05 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 161 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 3:23 am
Posts: 3175
Location: Chicago, IL
Sooooooo glad I held off on purchasing this one. Now that the Carnegie shows are available for pre-order, I was able to tag on "Monkies" and save on their preposterous shipping charges! :smoke:

_________________
Current favorite new (to me!) spin: Kate Bush - Wuthering Heights
(Wondering why it took this long for me to recognize her genius!)

Latest Fischer's Flicker press release
I Am Entertainment Magazine - 3.5/4 stars - REVIEW
Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2002 10:51 pm
Posts: 2343
Location: Europe
PenguinInBondage wrote:
Sooooooo glad I held off on purchasing this one. Now that the Carnegie shows are available for pre-order, I was able to tag on "Monkies" and save on their preposterous shipping charges! :smoke:
Yeah, I thought that as well: Should have waited. But nothing is easier than being wise in retrospect 8)

_________________
"Everybody in this room is wearing a uniform, and don't kid yourself" - FZ
http://www.myspace.com/kirnehness


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 3:23 am
Posts: 3175
Location: Chicago, IL
HJ wrote:
Yeah, I thought that as well: Should have waited. But nothing is easier than being wise in retrospect 8)


Hey, some days I'll take "wise" any way I can get it! :wink:

_________________
Current favorite new (to me!) spin: Kate Bush - Wuthering Heights
(Wondering why it took this long for me to recognize her genius!)

Latest Fischer's Flicker press release
I Am Entertainment Magazine - 3.5/4 stars - REVIEW
Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:38 am
Posts: 235
PenguinInBondage wrote:
Sooooooo glad I held off on purchasing this one. Now that the Carnegie shows are available for pre-order, I was able to tag on "Monkies" and save on their preposterous shipping charges! :smoke:

I was thinking of doing that, but there's not a huge saving to be made is there? Have you worked it out? The postage is a rip off, yeah, but it's the custom charges into Ireland that kill me.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 3:23 am
Posts: 3175
Location: Chicago, IL
IrishBoris wrote:
PenguinInBondage wrote:
Sooooooo glad I held off on purchasing this one. Now that the Carnegie shows are available for pre-order, I was able to tag on "Monkies" and save on their preposterous shipping charges! :smoke:

I was thinking of doing that, but there's not a huge saving to be made is there? Have you worked it out? The postage is a rip off, yeah, but it's the custom charges into Ireland that kill me.


I didn't exactly "work it out" but I definitely saved at least a 5-spot. I'll take it! :mrgreen:

_________________
Current favorite new (to me!) spin: Kate Bush - Wuthering Heights
(Wondering why it took this long for me to recognize her genius!)

Latest Fischer's Flicker press release
I Am Entertainment Magazine - 3.5/4 stars - REVIEW
Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:38 am
Posts: 235
How about a 15 dollar charge to post Ma Maison to Ireland then a further 41 dollars customs charge. How does that grab ya? *cough* downloads please *cough*


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 3:23 am
Posts: 3175
Location: Chicago, IL
IrishBoris wrote:
How about a 15 dollar charge to post Ma Maison to Ireland then a further 41 dollars customs charge. How does that grab ya? *cough* downloads please *cough*


That sniffs! Sorry bud.... :oops:

_________________
Current favorite new (to me!) spin: Kate Bush - Wuthering Heights
(Wondering why it took this long for me to recognize her genius!)

Latest Fischer's Flicker press release
I Am Entertainment Magazine - 3.5/4 stars - REVIEW
Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:38 am
Posts: 235
Ah, I'm the fool to pay it... I found out the other day that there's no customs charge for stuff bought within the EU, so if I wait a bit and get it from G&S it should be cheaper. Anyhow, that's life, whatya gonna do? Serves me right for living on a rainy rock in the middle of the Atlantic!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 3:23 am
Posts: 3175
Location: Chicago, IL
IrishBoris wrote:
Ah, I'm the fool to pay it... I found out the other day that there's no customs charge for stuff bought within the EU, so if I wait a bit and get it from G&S it should be cheaper. Anyhow, that's life, whatya gonna do? Serves me right for living on a rainy rock in the middle of the Atlantic!


I'm sure it's nice this time of year! :wink:

_________________
Current favorite new (to me!) spin: Kate Bush - Wuthering Heights
(Wondering why it took this long for me to recognize her genius!)

Latest Fischer's Flicker press release
I Am Entertainment Magazine - 3.5/4 stars - REVIEW
Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:38 am
Posts: 1071
Location: Centerville, Norway
IrishBoris wrote:
Ah, I'm the fool to pay it... I found out the other day that there's no customs charge for stuff bought within the EU, so if I wait a bit and get it from G&S it should be cheaper. Anyhow, that's life, whatya gonna do? Serves me right for living on a rainy rock in the middle of the Atlantic!

The Azores?

_________________
We make a special art in an environment hostile to dreamers. Frank Zappa, 1971


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:38 am
Posts: 235
Dark Clothes wrote:
IrishBoris wrote:
Ah, I'm the fool to pay it... I found out the other day that there's no customs charge for stuff bought within the EU, so if I wait a bit and get it from G&S it should be cheaper. Anyhow, that's life, whatya gonna do? Serves me right for living on a rainy rock in the middle of the Atlantic!

The Azores?

Turns out the Atlantic is pretty big. Who knew?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 2219
brainpang wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
His guitar playing is really a whole other thing. It's live improvisation, which I love. Emotion counts for a lot.


This has long been the chief criticism of Zappa for years upon years: that he is emotionless and cold (not to mention cynical).

There was no criticism from me.
IrishBoris wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
It's not over my head.

Yeah it is.

Perhaps you misunderstood.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:54 pm
Posts: 219
Location: Were We Ever Really Safe In San Antonio?
while listening to Worms From Hell i noticed synclavier samples (violin plucking??) used on The Eric Dolphy Memorial Barbecue from Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life (approx. 5:15). any one else catch that?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 3:55 am
Posts: 193
IrishBoris wrote:
BloodSugar00 wrote:
Funny innit, how everyone's different....

Absolutely, I remember hearing Orchestral Favorites for the first time in my early 20s and feeling I was missing something. I persevered and put it on again and again and began recognizing and anticipating passages and noticing the hooks, that were there all the time of course. This music isn't Status Quo (thank fuck), some get Frank's more complicated pieces straight away, some of us need a few listens. But, for me anyway, it ALWAYS pays off. I haven't "got into" Ma Maison yet, but I know I will. It's magical stuff.


Definitely can relate to what you're saying and for me also, the pay off is usually there just waiting to be found/uncovered/earned.

Myself, I had my first discovery and then stint with Zappa's output- up to Joe's Garage, chronologically, including most archival and posthumous releases of that period- approximately two years ago now, but, as good and as mind opening as that was, was at a difficult time for me were was, relative to now, still pretty closed and compromised as a person ie I really didn't give some of it- quite a lot given the size of his catalogue- a fair enough chance and enough time. Now, more mature and independent in my thinking, both, I'm coming back to Zappa and/or music in general- well, life, in general, in all honesty- and am anticipating such, certainly not needing to jump to any (emotional) sentiment/judgement towards a body of work and just being more laid back, giving it time and space to open up, if it does, either way accepting what will be on an even keel.

As with your findings, pretty much everything so far with Zappa will have something, usually a lot, for me to get from and/or enjoy. 8)

For me, therefore- like yourself if I've understood you fully-, you're unlikely to fully get his complicated works straight off- even possible?- but you recognise that there's likely a lot to be found in there from repeat listens, a lot to open up and/or unlock for yourself ie you get a feel for what lies ahead and/or whether worth pursuing or not.


brainpang wrote:
I don't know what 'dated' means, really, or at least I don't think of it as a negative. I like things that fall into a place and time. "Timeless music," is all in the ear of the beholder.


No, myself neither (I was more referencing the point of criticism I've commonly found presented in relation to Frank's synclavier works and would criticise as much as yourself has).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am
Posts: 9337
Location: EINDHOVEN
Dated is the exact opposite of timeless. It happens when something is so out of fashion people finally realize how ugly it is, which is what happened to disco, 80s synth, those 70s mumu dresses and what hopefully will soon happen to crocs and autotune. The problem with computerised sounds is it doesn't produce enough overtones, making it sound like barf, sharp and slightly painful.

_________________
Image
Join the PackardGoose forum! Send me a PM!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 3014
Location: Between the Badges
I find classifying recordings either dated or timeless to be examples of over-reaching hyperbole. If the production of a tune is dry and boxy, it dates itself as from the 70s. But the composition itself may be timeless in the sense that it obeys the conventions of standard songwriting and therefore not dated. Or the opposite may be the case where the tune is all era-based slang while the production is unassuming. None of these things factor in ugliness. Autotune is generally ugly because most of the people using it have little in the way of songwriting skills, so when one never comes across a song with autotune that they like, they blame the autotune, when the autotune itself isn't to blame as its just a tool.
I often think about fashion in the sense that I often observe women seeing an old picture of someone wearing clothes from another era and saying "Can you believe they are wearing that, its so dated?". All the while never reflecting back on the silliness they have covering their own bodies or questioning whether they are exactly as ridiculous as previous generations.

_________________
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Don't Be Stupid Unless You Want To


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:38 am
Posts: 235
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
I find classifying recordings either dated or timeless to be examples of over-reaching hyperbole. If the production of a tune is dry and boxy, it dates itself as from the 70s. But the composition itself may be timeless in the sense that it obeys the conventions of standard songwriting and therefore not dated. Or the opposite may be the case where the tune is all era-based slang while the production is unassuming. None of these things factor in ugliness. Autotune is generally ugly because most of the people using it have little in the way of songwriting skills, so when one never comes across a song with autotune that they like, they blame the autotune, when the autotune itself isn't to blame as its just a tool.
I often think about fashion in the sense that I often observe women seeing an old picture of someone wearing clothes from another era and saying "Can you believe they are wearing that, its so dated?". All the while never reflecting back on the silliness they have covering their own bodies or questioning whether they are exactly as ridiculous as previous generations.

Good post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am
Posts: 9337
Location: EINDHOVEN
No, AutoTune is used to mask bad singing, and only rarely as sound statement. Pretty much until it became en vogue, bad singing was often found in pop records, even way back in the 50s. Back then they masked it with reverb.
"Dated" is a term that can mean "it's something we may have liked back then, but now that it's no longer in fashion it doesn't really work anymore." Whether it becomes a cherished relic of the past or an annoyance we only play on moments of nostalgia hunger, that depends, but in the first case the word is not used as a derogative term.

_________________
Image
Join the PackardGoose forum! Send me a PM!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 3014
Location: Between the Badges
Well, I suppose there is room for disagreement, and I do disagree. For example, do you have a problem with Autotune when you don't know that it has been used? It is not always used as an effect, but perhaps the effect is what you are referring to. If so, I would consider the SNL digital short "I'm On a Boat". It cracks me up endlessly. Its hilarious and drenched with Autotune from the otherwise unlistenable T-Painintheears. Does humor belong in Autotune?
I still don't consider "dated" to refer to good, bad or otherwise. I find that, in music as that seems to be the milieu here, it most often refers to the inception of a technology. Early 80s is often dated by the Yamaha DX-7 as it was the latest thing then and tons of music sounds bad because of the poor use made of the stock DX-7 sounds. But as with any synth, its how its used and there are many albums with DX-7s on them that I consider great.
Personally, if a song, sound, or recording doesn't work for me now, it probably didn't work for me when it was "in fashion". I may have changed my opinion about a tune over the years, but not due to its popularity, I ammm suuuuurrrrre. ;)
Lastly, in music journalism (aagggghhhhh!), "dated" is ALWAYS derogatory.

_________________
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Don't Be Stupid Unless You Want To


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am
Posts: 9337
Location: EINDHOVEN
Ah, but when you play with humour it's a different concept. It's true that AutoTune can be used as artistic statement. So can car polish, vibrators and farts. But fact is that AutoTune decides the sound of the bulk of pop songs today, and I predict that the tinny sound it produces will be what makes noughties and early tennies decade (by which I mean the period 2005-now and beyond) sound so different from the rest of popular music. As Autotune is primarily used to cover up badness and rarely as artistic statement it will be considered a negative impact on musical sound.

_________________
Image
Join the PackardGoose forum! Send me a PM!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:38 am
Posts: 1071
Location: Centerville, Norway
Listening to this fine album, I must say I miss the saxophone samples in Buffalo Voice.

_________________
We make a special art in an environment hostile to dreamers. Frank Zappa, 1971


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:38 am
Posts: 1071
Location: Centerville, Norway
Even though it's clearly of its era, I would never say that FZ's clothing style in the 70s is dated now. However, the suits and hairdos of some of the journalists who interviewed him... 8)

_________________
We make a special art in an environment hostile to dreamers. Frank Zappa, 1971


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 3014
Location: Between the Badges
BBP wrote:
Ah, but when you play with humour it's a different concept. It's true that AutoTune can be used as artistic statement. So can car polish, vibrators and farts. But fact is that AutoTune decides the sound of the bulk of pop songs today, and I predict that the tinny sound it produces will be what makes noughties and early tennies decade (by which I mean the period 2005-now and beyond) sound so different from the rest of popular music. As Autotune is primarily used to cover up badness and rarely as artistic statement it will be considered a negative impact on musical sound.

I love the 2nd part of this post! Very thoughtful! :)
The first part I have trouble with though. I think that FZ's humor quote was created in part to neutralize the notion that music with humor is somehow not equivalent to music without humor.
I gotta go now, nice chatting with ya BBP.

_________________
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Don't Be Stupid Unless You Want To


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 7:29 pm
Posts: 9578
irishboris wrote:
How about a 15 dollar charge to post Ma Maison to Ireland then a further 41 dollars customs charge. How does that grab ya? *cough* downloads please *cough*


barfko swill international postage: $10.50 for up to 2 cds; find someone in the usa to purchase one for you & send it usps 1st class mail for about $6.50 ... if they hand-write your address, it may clear customs without flagging the taxman; $41 customs charge on a $17 cd ¿ wtf ¿

mine arrived yesterday, very cool package, the shorter tracks grab me more than the others ... 2 cds cost me 4 bucks shipping; sent one to germany today

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 3:55 am
Posts: 193
slime.oofytv.set wrote:
irishboris wrote:
How about a 15 dollar charge to post Ma Maison to Ireland then a further 41 dollars customs charge. How does that grab ya? *cough* downloads please *cough*


barfko swill international postage: $10.50 for up to 2 cds; find someone in the usa to purchase one for you & send it usps 1st class mail for about $6.50 ... if they hand-write your address, it may clear customs without flagging the taxman; $41 customs charge on a $17 cd ¿ wtf ¿

mine arrived yesterday, very cool package, the shorter tracks grab me more than the others ... 2 cds cost me 4 bucks shipping; sent one to germany today


Had considered trying this myself in past (and probably will next time I have to order fro Barfko Swill certainly on the more expensive items that do eclipse UK custom's income VAT boundaries- currently a meagre £18 soon to be only £15- such as Hammersmith Odeon, Lumpy Money, 4 disc Project/Object etc).

In UK, anything over aforementioned £18 threshold (soon to be £15) qualifies for income VAT being levied on top of it ie 20%. A mandatory £8 delivery is then charged by Royal Mail to bring package to your door from customs. Coupled with excessive shipping costs charged by BS- $18 for a normal speed delivery rate/service really?- means it's gona be a no-brainer to at least try and engineer this solution. This in my exp has always been negated by under-stating value of item on it's corresponding custom's form to equal to or less than this threshold ie £18 or lower (soon to be £15 or lower) however I totally understand this is unlikely to be fool-proof and therefore for that reason or otherwise sellers not being prepared to do (certainly formal businesses). Still if Ireland charges nearly 2.5 times item's value in custom's charges on an item only valued at approximately 12.3 Euro, that's in another stratosphere!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 161 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group