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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:32 am 
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PenguinInBondage wrote:
Soracha wrote:
PenguinInBondage wrote:

Have you already been exposed to 'Smiley Smile'? In my opinion, I dig that release better overall - but don't get me wrong, SMiLE is awesome too (and, let's face it, nearly the same)


I have not. But I figure they can be fun to compare?


Yeah, 'Smiley Smile' was basically what the label came up with for a release when SMiLE collapsed due to Brian's nervous breakdown(s). Some of the tracks on there never showed up on SMiLE and I guess I "miss" them. Check it out and see what you think... and don't forget: that's McCartney on vegetable chomping! :mrgreen:


Most of Smiley Smile is from sessions at Brian's home after his breakdown. Not the same thing as Smile at all in my opinion (aside from "Heroes & Villains" and "Good Vibrations" which I guess were the only finished Smile tracks at the time) but it has its own acid casualty charm.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:14 am 
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pbuzby wrote:
Most of Smiley Smile is from sessions at Brian's home after his breakdown. Not the same thing as Smile at all in my opinion (aside from "Heroes & Villains" and "Good Vibrations" which I guess were the only finished Smile tracks at the time) but it has its own acid casualty charm.


No, not the same thing but quite similar in that they share many of the same songs (not just the 2 you mentioned but also Vegetable and Wonderful) but also (while certainly subject to opinion) the only other psychedelic release in their entire catalog. Not to mention their titles :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:03 am 
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PenguinInBondage wrote:
pbuzby wrote:
Most of Smiley Smile is from sessions at Brian's home after his breakdown. Not the same thing as Smile at all in my opinion (aside from "Heroes & Villains" and "Good Vibrations" which I guess were the only finished Smile tracks at the time) but it has its own acid casualty charm.


No, not the same thing but quite similar in that they share many of the same songs (not just the 2 you mentioned but also Vegetable and Wonderful)


Wind Chimes too. But the Smile versions of Wind Chimes and Wonderful are beautiful, while the Smiley Smile versions are these weird minor key, whispered, LSD nightmare versions.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:10 am 
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pbuzby wrote:
Wind Chimes too. But the Smile versions of Wind Chimes and Wonderful are beautiful, while the Smiley Smile versions are these weird minor key, whispered, LSD nightmare versions.


Heh - yeah, they're definitely different. Funny that you view them as 'nightmare' versions though. I think they're beautiful. You're right though - the minor key approaches definitely makes them more.... mysterioso. Oh to be a fly-on-the-wall during those sessions.... :smoke:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:05 am 
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The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
BP, I was only commenting on the general nature of praise and criticizing. I actually am much along the lines of your opinions of the BBs. Not that I'd smash furniture, but anything unrealistically, ahem, smiley reeks of insincerity, in a way that Linus Van Pelt could never approve of. Then there are all those people who compare Brian Wilson and his harmony composition skills to Mozart, holy crap people come up with some mile-high overstatements.


yea, I don't wanna rain on anyones parade in excitement over the big BB releases. I have loads of friends who love 'em. The more fanatical of the batch think I'm just being difficult when I say it ain't for me. But it's true, whay can I do? And I'm a great admirer of Van Dyke Parks. Maybe I'll have to check the new release out. Is it LESS lush, overwhelmingly pop? But, as said, many of the songs are great. I'd just rather hear R Stevie Moore do 'em. Or Frank Black. Or Charles Manson, for that matter! Or my lost love Holly Cole.

Here's Frank doin' Hang Onto Your Ego:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzA29tCwyR4

And Holly doin' God Only Knows (the original which makes me cringe):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LevtxdaR14E


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:43 am 
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Ha! I've had a Frank Black mix on all morning! I'm one of those people who like Frank Black solo even more than Pixies. But, what do you know about Van Dyke Parks? I've had a bit of a dislike for him due to not liking what he did with Phil Ochs [strike that]Pleasures of the Harbor[/s] Tape from California and Greatest Hits.
As for more BB comments, there are songs like Be True to Your School, where I absolutely hate the sentiment, but can't help liking the song. I love to learn, but schools are the worst place to do so and having some kind of fucked up patriotism for a school simply because you went there is retarded.

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Last edited by The Forum Killed Arkay on Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:52 am 
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brainpang wrote:
Is it LESS lush, overwhelmingly pop? But, as said, many of the songs are great.


To answer your question, yes - it is certainly less "overwhelmingly pop". And yes, you're totally welcome to your own opinion but cringing over God Only Knows (original version)? I personally view that as a 5/5 star masterpiece.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:51 pm 
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I prefer solo Black, too. The first two, that is. And Pixies "Trompe Le Monde."
They all feature former Magic Band(ers) so maybe that's the secret element.
Just remembered seein' Black open up for the Ramones and doin' his tribute to them: Ramona.
That was a really great 5 minutes. I like that he is fat, too.

Van Dyke Parks? Love his first two under his name, especially #2: "Discover America.” A total classic. Does a cool version of “Sailin’ Shoes” featuring Lowell & Roy on there. I’m one of the handful that really likes the Harry Nilsson POPEYE soundtrack, which VDP should have co-artist credit for. ‘Course he’s still going strong, arranging for hot acts (at least a few years ago) Rufus Wainwright and Joanna Newsom. Tho’ I don’t listen to that stuff, I can admire the arrangements big time when I do hear ‘em.

Mr. PIB: Different Strokes, as they say. Thanks for the heads up on the record, I’ll get a friend to bring it over at some point.

p.s. Maybe it all boils down to the fact the BBs are responsible for IN MY ROOM.
G-d Help Me!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:15 pm 
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Thanks for the VDP recommends!

Best Frank Black imo:
Tied for 1st - Teenager of the Year and Show Me Your Tears
Tied for 2nd - Dog in the Sand, Black Letter Days, Fast Man Raider Man
Tied for 3rd - Devil's Workshop, Headach 4-song EP #1, I Don't Want to Hurt You 4-song EP
The rest all have their moments. FB like many artists could use an editor.

And IN MY ROOM should get an award for Sad Bastard Song of All Time!

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:24 pm 
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I remember reading somewhere that VDPs first, Song Cycle, was the most expensive record [Pop? Rock?] ever made at that point. And it is totally oddball! Worth it just for that.

And VDP is one of the nicest people in the world. I wrote him with a couple queries on things and he wrote back instantly from his iphone, like he was a childhood friend.

Do you know which Black album has the song ABOUT Beefheart? Describing how he didn't sleep for a year and a half?

Thanks...


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:33 pm 
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The coda of Wind Chimes on the inferior Smiley Smile is one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard.
I think Zappa did learn something from Brian Wilson. The song Surf's Up in 1966 was the high water mark of progressive pop music.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:03 pm 
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brainpang wrote:
Do you know which Black album has the song ABOUT Beefheart? Describing how he didn't sleep for a year and a half?

Thanks...


that was a song called 85 Weeks on the superb Frank Black and The Catholics ablum Pistolero!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:24 pm 
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I will buy the official SMiLE but I have owned the out takes, in pretty good condition I might add, for around a decade. I don't think it blew everything else away in '67, but it was pretty damn good and did tie modern American song craft to earlier forms, in the same way the Beatles reimagined English Music Hall.

I also defy anyone to get the box set and listen to the harmonies on things like Their Hearts Were Full of Spring and find anything recorded better and cleaner sounding in the '60s

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:16 pm 
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tweezers wrote:
I will buy the official SMiLE but I have owned the out takes, in pretty good condition I might add, for around a decade. I don't think it blew everything else away in '67, but it was pretty damn good and did tie modern American song craft to earlier forms, in the same way the Beatles reimagined English Music Hall.

I also defy anyone to get the box set and listen to the harmonies on things like Their Hearts Were Full of Spring and find anything recorded better and cleaner sounding in the '60s


I'd argue that "Our Prayer" sounds better than that aurally. :wink: But I hear you 100%. I agree too - SMiLE's release was nothing "new" to me but there were outtakes in this 5-disc version that I never heard before. I love Brian's innocence - it permeates throughout nearly every track.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:12 am 
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New out takes make it worthwhile, it will get picked up sooner or later, thanks Penguin.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:13 am 
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New out takes make it worthwhile, it will get picked up sooner or later, thanks Penguin.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:35 am 
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The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
Best Frank Black imo:
Tied for 1st - Teenager of the Year and...EDIT


Maybe best pop rock song album of all time? Along with Toadies "Rubbernecker?"
Beach Boys influence there, Mr PIB!

The Beefheart Song is: 85 Weeks...will post that under the Bat Chain thread as "35 Years."

Teenage: how can you beat a fat guy that writes a rockin' song about the 3 Stooges? And it comes off as deep, emotional, gives me goosebumps.

Two Reelers -- Frank Black

A lot of people love that Jerome
Did you know he missed his comb?
All his life was in pain
Made us laugh he never did complain

Brother Sam was more than OK
Returned once more to save the day
Slicked-back hair he did keep
Making a heep, heep, heep, heep, heep

If all you see is violence
Then I make a plea in their defence
Don't you know they speak vaudevillian?
And for what it is hear what my theory is
Some gibberish it is so serious
What we need is more silly men

Though underrated all the time
Louis was so very fine
Without him, imagine
Did you know he could play the violin?

Most important was brother Moe
He was the one who made it so
He got a Joe and another Joe
He would not quit, he would not quit

And Mr. White heard bad report
And so it ends the two reeler short
Cause you cannot do what you can't
And Mr. White heard bad report
And so it ends the two reeler short
Cause you cannot do what you can't

If all you see is violence
Then I make a plea in their defence
Don't you know they speak vaudevillian?


Last edited by brainpang on Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:46 am 
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:48 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Image


+1

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:10 am 
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That's right...
AND
Mike Love IS the Beach Boys!
Get Me?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:13 am 
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brainpang wrote:
That's right...
AND
Mike Love IS the Beach Boys!
Get Me?


Not even slightly. Brian Wilson IS the Beach Boys. Look into it...

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:27 am 
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The problem is that Mike Love had the emotional strength to survive, Brian took 30 years to get it back. When I saw him perform SMiLE at Carnegie Hall with his band of young acolytes, I felt I was witness to the resurrection of genius. Who ever thought he would be the last brother standing?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:19 pm 
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tweezers wrote:
The problem is that Mike Love had the emotional strength to survive, Brian took 30 years to get it back. When I saw him perform SMiLE at Carnegie Hall with his band of young acolytes, I felt I was witness to the resurrection of genius. Who ever thought he would be the last brother standing?


I'll give you that but he screwed over Brian big time.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:29 am 
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PenguinInBondage wrote:
brainpang wrote:
That's right...
AND
Mike Love IS the Beach Boys!
Get Me?


Not even slightly. Brian Wilson IS the Beach Boys. Look into it...



Damn, man, do you suffer from OCD? Not trying to be mean or funny. But please, ease up!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:37 am 
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brainpang wrote:
Damn, man, do you suffer from OCD? Not trying to be mean or funny. But please, ease up!


Hmm... I don't believe anyone else got huffy over my expressed opinion but whatever. I'll ease up by your request. :|

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