Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:11 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:55 am
Posts: 405
Location: Sweden
adverb wrote:
KillUgly2 wrote:
Kinda funny...I see old Trenddonger found it necessary to post a rebuttal on Dweezil's site in direct response to the discussion on this thread. Why he couldn't do it here I don't know. What a sycophantic dipshit. Brown lips, brown tongue, brown face, brown head. Yummy Yummy Yum Yum Yum. "In the Moment" your head is up Dweezil's ass (which is only when it's not up Gail's ass) please tell us what it smells like.

link?


What? Do you actually want to read it? Be honest to yourself here. :wink:

_________________
"Jazz is not dead, it just smells funny"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 1:17 am
Posts: 847
KillUgly2 wrote:
Psychologically it is a little weird. Dweezil even posted a picture of himself on his website awhile back, gazing into a bathroom mirror with Frank's facial hair (which he then shaved off to be fair). I dig honoring the father and all that but it seems that Dweezil doesn't have an identity of his own...at least artistically.



No matter what Dweezil did he will always be in his fathers Shadow. Frank Zappa was a great man. But actually I remember when I was at school some 20 years ago having some discussion with a few metal heads, they were far more aware of Dweezil than Frank.
Dweezil certainly started off in his own direction.
I think he made the right choice to dedicate himself to his fathers music in recent years and if he spends the rest of his life doing so I think that would be a worthwhile career.
He's put so much work into ZPZ, just from his playing point alone. I think you fuckers should respect him, I'm sure he'd love to be his own man but instead he's putting his energy into his fathers art. I say Dweezil is a top man and Frank would be well proud.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:58 pm
Posts: 13142
Location: Home of The Mondavi Center.
KillUgly2 wrote:
Kinda funny...I see old Trenddonger found it necessary to post a rebuttal on Dweezil's site in direct response to the discussion on this thread. Why he couldn't do it here I don't know. What a sycophantic dipshit. Brown lips, brown tongue, brown face, brown head. Yummy Yummy Yum Yum Yum. "In the Moment" your head is up Dweezil's ass (which is only when it's not up Gail's ass) please tell us what it smells like.

Glynn Woods is the FOH engineer on Dweezils 'In The Moment' release and I had some pics of him I posted on DZW,just to push Gary Titones brown nose post back to where no one is subject to it. I believe you,KU2,took one of them pixs at the Tahoe show,thanks.
I wouldn't mind going up to Tahoe/CC and doing what we were gonna do (besides see DZpZ) this Thanksgiving.How 'bout you?
KillUgly2 wrote:
Psychologically it is a little weird. Dweezil even posted a picture of himself on his website awhile back, gazing into a bathroom mirror with Frank's facial hair (which he then shaved off to be fair). I dig honoring the father and all that but it seems that Dweezil doesn't have an identity of his own...at least artistically.

I thought you were trying to imitate that picture on your old avatar on DZW! The one where your wearing the FZ Apostrophe shirt in a bathroom mirror. :wink: :mrgreen:

_________________
I'm getting larger as I walk away.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2002 10:51 pm
Posts: 2346
Location: Europe
I actually mentioned this about the value of sounding exactly like Frank, and where your own person then is on the DZ site. Trendy immediately called Dweezil, who actually came up with a response. I can't remember it exactly but he said that he felt he could express his own ideas while still respecting Frank. I know this is a teaser (perhaps), but it is hell to search on the DZ site; I'll try and find it to be fair to DZ though.

_________________
"Everybody in this room is wearing a uniform, and don't kid yourself" - FZ
http://www.myspace.com/kirnehness


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:11 am
Posts: 1023
Location: North German Wasteland
Being a DZ/ZPZ fan is NOT a condition for being a FZ fan.

_________________
Active forum member since 2005 - R E T I R E D from public forum activity in 2013


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:48 am
Posts: 6268
Location: Your Mom's Box
KillUgly2 wrote:
Psychologically it is a little weird. Dweezil even posted a picture of himself on his website awhile back, gazing into a bathroom mirror with Frank's facial hair (which he then shaved off to be fair). I dig honoring the father and all that but it seems that Dweezil doesn't have an identity of his own...at least artistically.


wrong. Dweezil had a music career of his own for many years that was drastically different than what he has morphed himself into at this point. And what he has morphed himself into is fucking great. He has dedicated his life and completely changed his playing style by studying the the music of his father.

_________________
Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am
Posts: 9577
Location: EINDHOVEN
KU2 just made me visit DZW again.

(Teehee... that's cute.)

_________________
Image
Join the PackardGoose forum! Send me a PM!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:35 pm
Posts: 1261
Location: Ohio
I'm kinda curious to hear the drum/bass interplay on this release to see how it compares to Artie/Vinnie and Scott/Chad (or even how it compares to Joe's work with Bryan Beller for both Z and Mike Keneally). It's hard to hear the bass very well on the snippets, but that could just be my less-than-stellar computer speakers.

_________________
Good writing is clear writing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:11 am
Posts: 1023
Location: North German Wasteland
FalseDichotomy wrote:
I'm kinda curious to hear the drum/bass interplay on this release to see how it compares to Artie/Vinnie and Scott/Chad …

Forget it.

FalseDichotomy wrote:
… It's hard to hear the bass very well on the snippets, but that could just be my less-than-stellar computer speakers.

That is because he has that modern style meaningless bass sound that is carved out in the midrange. I couldn't hear what he was playing at any of the ZPZ shows or on their recordings. Not my cup of tea. A good opportunity for comparison occurred during the streaming of the Roundhouse shows last year. When Scott Thunes came on, suddenly the bass was happening.

Unfortunately they decided to go for the same approach with the bass on Hammersmith Odeon, where O'Hearn is buried in oblivion. Listen to what Frank did with the bass on his mixes. He thought the bass part was important and made us hear it.

Th.

_________________
Active forum member since 2005 - R E T I R E D from public forum activity in 2013


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:48 pm
Posts: 20738
Location: Somewhere in time
I think we will all give this a spin... :smoke:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:48 am
Posts: 6268
Location: Your Mom's Box
Thinman wrote:
FalseDichotomy wrote:
I'm kinda curious to hear the drum/bass interplay on this release to see how it compares to Artie/Vinnie and Scott/Chad …

Forget it.

FalseDichotomy wrote:
… It's hard to hear the bass very well on the snippets, but that could just be my less-than-stellar computer speakers.

That is because he has that modern style meaningless bass sound that is carved out in the midrange. I couldn't hear what he was playing at any of the ZPZ shows or on their recordings. Not my cup of tea. A good opportunity for comparison occurred during the streaming of the Roundhouse shows last year. When Scott Thunes came on, suddenly the bass was happening.

Unfortunately they decided to go for the same approach with the bass on Hammersmith Odeon, where O'Hearn is buried in oblivion. Listen to what Frank did with the bass on his mixes. He thought the bass part was important and made us hear it.

Th.


WTF kinda equipment are you listening with? no bass on Hammersmith? gimme a fucking break.

_________________
Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:11 am
Posts: 1023
Location: North German Wasteland
jaypfunk wrote:
… no bass on Hammersmith? …

Lots of bass frequencies but no bass guitar.

_________________
Active forum member since 2005 - R E T I R E D from public forum activity in 2013


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:38 am
Posts: 1071
Location: Centerville, Norway
Thinman wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
… no bass on Hammersmith? …

Lots of bass frequencies but no bass guitar.

+ 1 I'm afraid.

But I like Dweezil's dedication, and would buy a ZPZ record whith focus on complex rock band compositions with strong guitar parts, like Sinister Footwear, Mo's Vacation and so on. I think there is a Zen of imitation which can make craftsmen like Dweezil into true artists when they stick to the path.

_________________
We make a special art in an environment hostile to dreamers. Frank Zappa, 1971


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:39 am
Posts: 152
Thinman wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
… no bass on Hammersmith? …

Lots of bass frequencies but no bass guitar.


Yes, and Frank's guitar isn't particularly prominent either. It's probably the only ZFT release where I said "what's up with this mix?". You'll notice in the liners that it was mixed in October and released in November, so I imagine that they were in a rush. I think they could have done better, but it is what it is.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 3222
Location: Between the Badges
Might as well chime in on this...

Tons of jazz soloists have made careers on stylistically following others, whether they are horn players who follow Armstrong or any of the multitudes who have followed Parker or Miles. This has been largely considered acceptable for solo improvisations as opposed to simply solos because the nature of improvisation indicates that the performer is putting his own spin on it.
In order to be in the style of someone like Parker there is a learning curve, and so with the case of FZ. DZ has put alot of time into learning how FZ did what he did. Unfortunately, I don't hear the evidence that he brought the learning back to his own style to mix the FZ tunes and techniques into his own. Any cover band can learn what has already been done, but improvisation requires that the results express one's self rather than simply one's influences. Maybe this new recording will prove me wrong.

_________________
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Don't Be Stupid Unless You Want To


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:08 pm
Posts: 136
Wen D. Carlos wrote:
Thinman wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
… no bass on Hammersmith? …

Lots of bass frequencies but no bass guitar.


Yes, and Frank's guitar isn't particularly prominent either. It's probably the only ZFT release where I said "what's up with this mix?". You'll notice in the liners that it was mixed in October and released in November, so I imagine that they were in a rush. I think they could have done better, but it is what it is.

i dunno at least its not unbearably loud like buffalo


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:07 am
Posts: 1369
Location: Paris, France
jaypfunk wrote:
KillUgly2 wrote:
Psychologically it is a little weird. Dweezil even posted a picture of himself on his website awhile back, gazing into a bathroom mirror with Frank's facial hair (which he then shaved off to be fair). I dig honoring the father and all that but it seems that Dweezil doesn't have an identity of his own...at least artistically.

wrong. Dweezil had a music career of his own for many years that was drastically different than what he has morphed himself into at this point. (...)

Drastically different? Not exactly like raising turkeys IMO. Unless one can do that with a guitar.

Whatever, even though I am not into DZPZ like a few others, I also think we should try to use respectful ways to express opinions towards the Zappa family here.
They kindly provided us with this space of free speech, and they occasionnally come here to exchange with us.
Do not get me wrong, this has nothing to do with censorship, it is just about minimum correctness between guests and hosts.

Cheers


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:48 am
Posts: 6268
Location: Your Mom's Box
Maroual wrote:
Drastically different? Not exactly like raising turkeys IMO. Unless one can do that with a guitar.

Whatever, even though I am not into DZPZ like a few others, I also think we should try to use respectful ways to express opinions towards the Zappa family here.
They kindly provided us with this space of free speech, and they occasionnally come here to exchange with us.
Do not get me wrong, this has nothing to do with censorship, it is just about minimum correctness between guests and hosts.

Cheers


yes drastically. DZs guitar style started out as and continued to be for a long time the shredder, play fast type. Now he has transformed all that into what he's presently doing in ZPZ to be able to mimic FZ.

_________________
Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 5918
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
This point about Dweezil playing his Dad's music and having no career of his own is getting a bit tired. Whatever FZ fans and even FZ himself may have thought about the "classical" world, there is some brilliant music in that domain and plenty of stunning examples that are next to impossible to play that only the cream of concert musicians can not just manage but also put the "eyebrows on". FZ himself was always complaining about getting his music not just accurately performed but with the eyebrows.

The point is, there are concert musicians and conductors out there, whose playing ability and conducting ability enables stunning performances of some great compositions that wouldn't be possible otherwise. These people are rare and special and have important and outstanding careers.

Dweezil is doing this for FZ's music. Bringing performances of his music live to a high level of accuracy and vibrancy. And not only that he's injecting the "in the moment guitar solo thing" similar in principle to his father but not totally imitative like some are saying - he's not just transcribing solos. He has a totally valid career going and kudos to him.

I'm not particularly interested in the recordings, I have the original 2 disc DVD which is pretty cool and I may or may not buy more, but I'm very much looking forward to the next tour to OZ. Dweezil keeping it live is the big deal for me. I've seen two of these concerts and my only problem was that they were too loud and that's easily fixed.

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:31 pm
Posts: 713
I'm not anti-Dweezil or anti-ZPZ (I've seen them a bunch) and like I said earlier I may end up getting this. I'm just questioning in my own mind what the value of this would be to me. One thing I really like about Dweezil and his mission with his Dad's music is that I think it helps in the continued study of the music and for guitar hobbyists (and all guitarists, I suppose) it's a nice window into some of the techniques, etc. He talked about doing some instructional dvd's which I think have the potential to be quite good. Some of my critiques about Dweezil may come off as being a little harsh but it's not my intent to demean. Is this necessary? No, but it's an option.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:07 am
Posts: 1369
Location: Paris, France
What you guys are saying about exercising and rehearsing makes a lot of sense in the context of FZ's music.
And I am pretty sure that nobody questionned these necessary requirements.

Although I agree that playing such music requires a lot of talent, music is not limited to execution.
Otherwise I would just play midi files on my computer.
There are other important aspects I would have appreciated to see developped in the two ZPZ shows I attended, such as bidirectional fun, empathy, audience participation, weirdness, improvised acts, risk, shocking stuff, crazy arrangements, unexpected contemporary and/or pop music quotes, mixed arts, sound painting, etc.

polydigm wrote:
my only problem was that they were too loud and that's easily fixed.

With time my ears became more sensitive, so I always make sure to have earlplugs when attending a concert as I bet you do.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am
Posts: 9577
Location: EINDHOVEN
Maroual that's a very bad sign. You may suffer a type of noise-induced hearing loss. Consider checking your doctor.

It's wonderful to see FZ bring out the best in Dweezil. And it's painful to hear that translated into "Hel-lo... beau-ti-ful..."
(runs from her sister who vowed to kill BBP if she ever dared sing that again) I'll wait for the reviews on this one.

_________________
Image
Join the PackardGoose forum! Send me a PM!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 3:23 am
Posts: 3273
Location: Chicago, IL
BBP wrote:
And it's painful to hear that translated into "Hel-lo... beau-ti-ful..."


Forgive me but I don't follow the reference. What's that?

_________________
Current favorite new (to me!) spin: Kate Bush - Wuthering Heights
(Wondering why it took this long for me to recognize her genius!)

Latest Fischer's Flicker press release
I Am Entertainment Magazine - 3.5/4 stars - REVIEW
Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:13 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:42 pm
Posts: 189
Location: Marion, Ohio
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
Might as well chime in on this...

Tons of jazz soloists have made careers on stylistically following others, whether they are horn players who follow Armstrong or any of the multitudes who have followed Parker or Miles. This has been largely considered acceptable for solo improvisations as opposed to simply solos because the nature of improvisation indicates that the performer is putting his own spin on it.
In order to be in the style of someone like Parker there is a learning curve, and so with the case of FZ. DZ has put alot of time into learning how FZ did what he did. Unfortunately, I don't hear the evidence that he brought the learning back to his own style to mix the FZ tunes and techniques into his own. Any cover band can learn what has already been done, but improvisation requires that the results express one's self rather than simply one's influences. Maybe this new recording will prove me wrong.


i like this post.

i appreciate what DZ has done with FZ's music, and i don't think he is attempting to be his father which some people seem to be the case. i think he's just trying to expose some great music and music ideas that not everyone has had the chance to hear or experience.

_________________
Image
http://rodneyshifflet.bandcamp.com <---- check out my music!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am
Posts: 9577
Location: EINDHOVEN
PenguinInBondage wrote:
BBP wrote:
And it's painful to hear that translated into "Hel-lo... beau-ti-ful..."


Forgive me but I don't follow the reference. What's that?


Those are the first words to Dweezil's song Love Ride, album opener to Go With What You Know. Intro is OK but the rest is fairly lethal.
My sister was, like me, caught at his very good concert in Amsterdam in 2010, and she wanted to hear more so I put GWWYK on her MP3. She can't edit the playlist on her computer. When she came back to visit us she begged me to pull that song off and spent over an hour nagging at me how bad she thought it was.

_________________
Image
Join the PackardGoose forum! Send me a PM!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 63 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group