Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:54 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Jazz from Zappa
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:16 am
Posts: 2437
Dark Clothes wrote:
As a Swede you will probably have heard some of Johansson's film music - if you have seen the original Pippi TV series and some of the other Astrid Lindgren adaptations. In one of the Pippi episodes, the kids are up in the spooky attic, and the music there (by Johansson and Georg Riedel) has a totally atonal, dissonant, modernist flavour. Not too far away from works like Pedro's Dowry or the incidental pieces of 200 Motels. Those were the days - if you listen to the incidental music of a Seventies series like Columbo, there's a lot of dissonant, Varèse-inspired stuff going on - often quite similar to some of Zappa's orchestral works. No wonder Emil Richards said that Zappa could have been a great film composer!


Very interesting observations.

_________________
"drums are too noisy, 'n you've got no corners to hide in"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Jazz from Zappa
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 10
Dark Clothes wrote:
As a Swede you will probably have heard some of Johansson's film music - if you have seen the original Pippi TV series and some of the other Astrid Lindgren adaptations. In one of the Pippi episodes, the kids are up in the spooky attic, and the music there (by Johansson and Georg Riedel) has a totally atonal, dissonant, modernist flavour. Not too far away from works like Pedro's Dowry or the incidental pieces of 200 Motels. Those were the days - if you listen to the incidental music of a Seventies series like Columbo, there's a lot of dissonant, Varèse-inspired stuff going on - often quite similar to some of Zappa's orchestral works. No wonder Emil Richards said that Zappa could have been a great film composer!


That is interesting. Is there a way to check that out?


Aside from which. I like The Grand Wazoo quite a bit. Especially around a minute or so in.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 6881
Location: exile
Soracha wrote:
Twenty Small Cigars is one of his greatest jazztunes according to me. It sounds very swedish/nordic. Same feel as swedish jazz-pianist Jan Johansson
Dark Clothes wrote:
A beautiful tune, indeed, and I get the association to Johansson. The mood is similar, but don't you think Johansson typically has more repetitive figures, while one of the beauties of TSC is the ever developing melody line? Zappa's Universe expands!
thenoisydrum wrote:
I have always thought of the studio snippet of Toads of the Short Forest from Weasel's as being quite jazzy.
pbuzby wrote:
One or two European jazz singers did versions of this theme (one was Monica Zetterlund, if I recall right).
Soracha wrote:
Yes, Monica Zetterlund was one. She calls it Zäpovalsen (Secret police waltz). The lyrics are just a long list of names, probably believed working with the secret police, I guess.
Also, another swedish jazz/pop singer, Lill Lindfors, has done a version of bluejeans and moonbeams, called blåjeans och stjärnljus, if I remember correctly.
yep, you're correct about both. 8)

Dark Clothes wrote:
As a Swede you will probably have heard some of Johansson's film music - if you have seen the original Pippi TV series and some of the other Astrid Lindgren adaptations. In one of the Pippi episodes, the kids are up in the spooky attic, and the music there (by Johansson and Georg Riedel) has a totally atonal, dissonant, modernist flavour.
ah, yes. georg riedel and jan johansson. two brilliant musicians/arrangers/composers. sadly enough, jan johansson passed away in a car crash in 1968, only 37 years old.

every time I listen to 'ruins' from henry cow's second album 'unrest', there's a short part which makes me think of the theme from "vi på saltkråkan" (another astrid lindgren creation), composed by georg riedel.

_________________
"bit of nostalgia for the old folks."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Jazz from Zappa
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:11 am
Posts: 3325
Alien Orifice live dvd is great, one of franks best solo's.

_________________
Confusion will be my epitaph


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Jazz from Zappa
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:07 am
Posts: 1471
I quite like the extra music that is added on "America Drinks and Goes Home" for Jean Luc Ponty's version on "King Kong" album. Really makes me wonder if it was a post-facto addition or rejected originally because of being too difficult for Absolutely Free era MOI? Petite Wazoo Orchestra in any way played the JLP version live in 1972.

And speaking of "King Kong" album, I think "The Duke of Prunes" theme that surfaces on the original version of "Low Budget Orchestra" is also a good vehicle for improvisation, just a simple two-chord theme with very nice violin and piano solos.

Oh, and "Farther O'Blivion"! I think FZ once in 1973 made a comment: "To prove that jazz is dead, here's "Farther O'Blivion"". This ties together with "Bebop Tango's" classic sarcastic jibe: "Jazz is not dead it just smells funny". For a dead musical idiom in which it is obviously all composed, it sounds very interesting. I especially like the 1973 Ponty era versions, while I still have no idea what bebop elements are in the tango, I appreciate the idea of using clarinet as one of the lead instruments.

_________________
Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Jazz from Zappa
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:11 am
Posts: 3325
Are you saying jazz is a dead musical idiom?, I say, NOT, try the new Brubeck Brothers cd.

_________________
Confusion will be my epitaph


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Jazz from Zappa
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:51 am
Posts: 36
Location: Carleton Place, Ontario
My personal favourite has to be Little Umbrellas. It's great to read recommendations from other fans, especially from CD's I don't own. Gives me some ideas as to what to buy next. Thanks everyone.

_________________
A succulent fat one. A mod little flat one. Maybe a hot one, to give me the clap.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Jazz from Zappa
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:07 am
Posts: 1471
BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
Are you saying jazz is a dead musical idiom?


I sincerely hope not. But apparently FZ considered it "dead" and that's what I referred to. Clearly I was not precise enough.

_________________
Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Jazz from Zappa
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:19 pm
Posts: 7
I think Jazz in the classical sense did die as a progressive musical form in about 1968 with the death of Coltrane and Ayler a bit later. Everything since is just a retreading of what went before. I exclude fusion and European Free Imrov from this however. If this is was what Zappa meant then I'm with him.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group