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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:32 am 
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ORDERED :smoke:

I don't care that i already own 2 versions of the album (the Shiny Beast album and the Dust Sucker bootleg), this version should add a lot more to what we already (think we) know and love.
Seeing this is one of my 3 all time favorite Beefheart albums, i just could not let this one pass without ordering.

Hopefully shipping and sending will be faster than with Carnegie Hall, which i ordered on the 14th of october and did not receive untill the 9th of december...

So, as i understand correctly there will be liner notes by Musical Director John French ?
I wonder what he has to say about this album in these notes, especially considering the following quote from his book Through The Eyes Of Magic:
Quote:
I don't believe the album should have been remixed to begin with and i think that when Gail sells it, she should consider that the original mix that Don supervised is the one he would wish to be released.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:22 am 
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Dark Clothes wrote:
Well, bp - I may be paranoid, but you're too loyal to AGZ for your own good... John French states that Don Van Vliet and Frank Zappa were the producers of the album (check page 834 of his book), but you say it cannot be so, because that's what AGZ sez. I know Frank didn't produce this like he did TMR, but the money came from DisCreet/Zappa, and Frank made artistic decisions like the nixing of Candle Mambo. I don't think the album could have existed without Frank's participation. He produced it, without sitting and discussing every musical detail in the recording process, like he did on TMR.

Remember - just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean there's nobody following you. Pauline Butcher calls Gail a skilled manipulator. Don't let yourself be manipulated. I'm thankful that this is out, but that's after 35 years of Zappa family suppression - God knows why...


give it a rest, man. you know not of what you speak. it's an interesting viewpoint on producing tho. guess i am due about 7 producer credits on records for the artists involved asking for my 2 cents.

NOTE TO SELF: never visit zappa forum or zappateers when excited about a new release. fz fans have something wrong with them. think negativity is insight.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:43 am 
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Does anyone know if the chain stores like Amazon or CD Universe will be carrying this by say spring? I think when Trance-Fusion came out, you didn't have to go through musictoday. Amazon and the others had it up for pre-order also. I know certain people here HATE it when someone bitches about the price, but $20 for a single CD is too high, final cost would be $26.89 in NY state. ZFT would be stupid not to shop this release to regular retailers. They'd sell a ton more units that way. Your average curious Beefheart fan isn't gonna come here and buy the CD(maybe if it was vinyl) at that price. I'll eventually buy it one way or another.

I don't like the cover. It reminds me of this piece of crap.
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Wasn't this the original intended cover?
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As far as the Walley/Drumbo liner notes, I'd be surprised if there's anything revealing that's not already in Drumbo's extensive album notes from his book.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:00 am 
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John French, page 834: "Producer(s): Don Van Vliet, Frank Zappa."

Yes, man, I'm ready to rest my case and look forward to hearing the album, regardless of past fuck-ups.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:12 pm 
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Lovely they picked Don's birthday for the shipping date.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:17 pm 
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do you believe everything you read?
the book is a thousand pages of total cluelessness outside the music, his assigned role.
and he wouldn't permit an editor.
ya may as well quote wiki.
as for lucas and your interpretation, you see things as you are not what they are.
please explain why gz wouldn't give frank production credit on something she thinks so highly of.
how do you know the music wasn't released 'cause Don didn't want it to be?
no answer necessary.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:00 pm 
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brainpang wrote:
per gz, the record is/was not produced by fz.
yes, orig release crushed due to cohen/zappa fallout...and probably dons contractural problems.
most cuts ended up in different versions on the last 3 proper beefheart records.
2 cuts not anywhere also.
me happy with the bonus cuts.

don't pile on gail. she broke her silence to announce this on the day, praise her.
the fz thing is surely just an error. take it easy ye paranoid.
and duh, it was held up for a year 'cause don died.

You make a good point about Gail brainpang.If she had released this last year right after the good Captain's passing,she would have become a pariah to the music world,swooping in for the financial kill like that.Dancing on his grave,cashing in,ect.,if you will.This looks like she had respect for CB and I believe she does.Last year when CB died she had Willie The Pimp put up on 'in memorandom' under Don Van Vliet.I thought that was a classy touch.(although Wild Man Fisher is there to...hmm)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:00 pm 
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Oh yeah, French is clueless? That puts your judgment of other posters here into a real interesting perspective, brainpang. I guess that's why Gail hired him to write the liner notes for BCP?

I would think it would please your loyalty to the Zappas that French always speaks respectfully of Frank. And have you ever read anything remotely as detailed and insightful about Lancaster around 1960? About the making of Trout Mask Replica and the details of the music... Who is clueless? If you dismiss a source like that, I guess it's you.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:24 pm 
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Dark Clothes wrote:
Oh yeah, French is clueless? That puts your judgment of other posters here into a real interesting perspective, brainpang. I guess that's why Gail hired him to write the liner notes for BCP?

I would think it would please your loyalty to the Zappas that French always speaks respectfully of Frank. And have you ever read anything remotely as detailed and insightful about Lancaster around 1960? About the making of Trout Mask Replica and the details of the music... Who is clueless? If you dismiss a source like that, I guess it's you.


I'm advocating Dark Clothes.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:43 am 
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pygmy stallion wrote:
I'm advocating Dark Clothes.

Hehe - yeh, you got it :mrgreen: And the way I see it, Pygmy, this is going to be a dynamite record!

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:32 am 
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I ordered my two copies yesterday morning, directly after I read about it in my mailbox.
Thank's to Gail, again......


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:19 am 
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anyone surprised by the tracklisting, for better or worse? I'm surprised to see Poop Hatch on here. Didn't realize this would have songs from all 3 of the final albums. Pretty cool, I just thought there'd be more material overall. I'm definitely ordering it, by the way.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:46 am 
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scabdates wrote:
anyone surprised by the tracklisting, for better or worse? I'm surprised to see Poop Hatch on here.

Not really, other than I'm excited about the bonus tracks. Poop Hatch was recorded for BCP, and was retitled 81 Poop Hatch when it was recycled (Ice Cream For Crow). The title stuck for this new release, it seems.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:02 am 
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so stoopid and biased and outright assholian.
here's a life lesson for ya: not a good idea to condemn a person over gross speculation.
'cause that is all ya got.
really shameful.
do you get it now?
good riddance, mein fuhrer.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:06 am 
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brainpang wrote:
so stoopid and biased and outright assholian.
here's a life lesson for ya: not a good idea to condemn a person over gross speculation.
'cause that is all ya got.
really shameful.
do you get it now?
good riddance, mein fuhrer.

Mirror man, mirror me.

Edit: Actually I don't know wtf you're talking about :P

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Last edited by Dark Clothes on Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:46 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
*waits patiently for the whining and complaining about the lack of information and track list.

and go....................


Ah, but there was a track list provided pre-release! This change has not gone unnoticed by me, personally.... :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:19 am 
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not interested at all. more synclavier, please.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:05 pm 
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http://www.zappa.com/gzsez/questions/error-bat-chain-puller-is-beefheart-not-fz/

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:17 pm 
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Dark Clothes wrote:


Meh - she is still in the habit of taking these things too personally, IMO. Just correct it and say you're sorry... :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:23 pm 
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zappahead311 wrote:
not interested at all. more synclavier, please.


What do you think of this statement?....
"Zappa's Synclavier music is for pretentious assholes".


PenguinInBondage wrote:
Dark Clothes wrote:


Meh - she is still in the habit of taking these things too personally, IMO. Just correct it and say you're sorry... :roll:

I don't care enough to give a shit but Gail sure seems hypocritical. Blame it on machines...hahaha
She would have a meltdown if someone else released an album and credited it to Zappa.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:28 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
I don't care enough to give a shit but Gail sure seems hypocritical. Blame it on machines...hahaha
She would have a meltdown if someone released an album and credited it to Zappa.


I don't personally know enough about the politics/dynamics behind this release not seeing the light of day until now. However, following your "if the shoe were on the other foot" logic - it does make me think back to the comparison on FZ's feelings when he found King Kong incorrectly credited on the live Lennon release! :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:45 pm 
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Judgement reserved. I don't care what my PayPal thing said, when I get BCP and read the liner notes, I will then opine if GZ took credit beyond what credit FZ should get.

She released it on the anniversary of his passing and she delivered three worthwhile releases in the span of four months.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:08 pm 
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I'm not ordering this until I get the release email.

I'm on the mailing list! :x

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:25 pm 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
I'm not ordering this until I get the release email.

I'm on the mailing list! :x


You'll show them! :wink:
Yeah, they seem to have mailing lists out-of-whack.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:56 pm 
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PenguinInBondage wrote:
Lumpy Gravy wrote:
I'm not ordering this until I get the release email.

I'm on the mailing list! :x


You'll show them! :wink:
Yeah, they seem to have mailing lists out-of-whack.

I got mine after they annouced the release here,there,and everywhere else.But it did come and with a set list this time.Is that the norm or whacky,only time will tell. :mrgreen:

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