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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:47 am 
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PenguinInBondage wrote:
Dark Clothes wrote:


Meh - she is still in the habit of taking these things too personally, IMO. Just correct it and say you're sorry... :roll:


scott colby...he's on the crazy backward alphabet record with kaiser/french/etc.
i've met a lot of rabid anti-zappa beefheart fans throughout the years, and i alwas like to tease 'em that they need to own thing-fish if they wanna be a true don completist.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:35 am 
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PenguinInBondage wrote:
Dark Clothes wrote:


Meh - she is still in the habit of taking these things too personally, IMO. Just correct it and say you're sorry... :roll:

I think it has been corrected in the meantime.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:15 am 
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Maybe a change is gonna come? Nah.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:30 am 
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Dark Clothes wrote:
Well, bp - I may be paranoid, but you're too loyal to AGZ for your own good... John French states that Don Van Vliet and Frank Zappa were the producers of the album


It has been stated many times in the past that the album was not produced by FZ but by Kerry McNabb & Don Van Vliet. This is not a Gail conspiracy. So give it a rest.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:58 am 
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Forgive my ignorance but I cannot figure out what the A in AGZ stands for... :?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:05 am 
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Her given first name is Adelaide.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:08 am 
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tweezers wrote:
Her given first name is Adelaide.


Ahhhh.... how cute! (1-upping the acronym GZ to AGZ) :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:23 am 
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Wen D. Carlos wrote:
Dark Clothes wrote:
Well, bp - I may be paranoid, but you're too loyal to AGZ for your own good... John French states that Don Van Vliet and Frank Zappa were the producers of the album


It has been stated many times in the past that the album was not produced by FZ but by Kerry McNabb & Don Van Vliet. This is not a Gail conspiracy. So give it a rest.

I'm resting, and quoting relevant sources. The term producer has a number of different definitions, which is evident from all the ZFT releases PRODUCED by Gail Zappa and Joe Travers.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:14 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
zappahead311 wrote:
not interested at all. more synclavier, please.


What do you think of this statement?....
"Zappa's Synclavier music is for pretentious assholes".


PenguinInBondage wrote:
Dark Clothes wrote:


Meh - she is still in the habit of taking these things too personally, IMO. Just correct it and say you're sorry... :roll:

I don't care enough to give a shit but Gail sure seems hypocritical. Blame it on machines...hahaha
She would have a meltdown if someone else released an album and credited it to Zappa.


I would say I think it's totally retarded if someone judges another by what music they like. I can't stand cb's music, doesn't mean I think people are idiots for finding his music enjoyable.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:15 am 
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tweezers wrote:
Her given first name is Adelaide.



Adelaide Gail Sloatman, from Scarsdale, NY. MONEY Baby!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:08 am 
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Just like brainpang, I really hadn't anticipated such tiresome nitpicking about this thoroughly exciting and excellent release!!! But people seem to be hell-bent on their point of view, and jump up like syphilitic Jacks-in-boxes at the guy who has a different angle. I checked back a little to see who raised the PRODUCER OF BCP ISSUE first, because I had a hunch it wasn't me. And lo, when you look back to page 1 here, you'll find that it's jaypfunk who in his inimitably matter-of-factly fashion mentions Zappa as the producer. I didn't twice about it then, but brainpang sure did, and I made the mistake (?) of responding. Gail's view is new to me, but the reference to Zappa as producer is all over the net, and French's long story of the making of the album leaves no doubt about his involvement, even though he was too busy (or fed up with Don) to sit in during the recording sessions. Frank financed the project through DiscReet and made vital decisions, like the nixing of Candle Mambo. Would he have had a production credit if the album had been released in 1976 as planned? I sure think so. As far as the CD goes, I'll see if I'm composed enough to find out who gets the production credit in 2011/12, when I open the package with trembling little hands to FINALLY put this incredible gem into the CD and enjoy enjoy ENJOY the Captain's furious message from beyond the valley of death!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:18 am 
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Ummmmm.... ok :roll:

[I was commenting on Dio Fa's comment]

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Last edited by PenguinInBondage on Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:23 pm 
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FZ did produce the original sessions. Here's the bootleg LP I have had since 1990..................

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original 1976 shiny beast version
19?? lp-bootleg ger shelter lp 80b

from "Glass Finger's Big Bad But Beautiful Book of Beefheart Bootlegs - Volume #1" (Apocalypse) / 1993 :
"19?? German Zappa presents Captain Beefheart & His Magic Band Original 1976 Shiny Beast Version on Shelter LP 80B. The bootleg issue from the 1976 virgin issued (allegedly) pre-release tapes. Labels, black on cream, say Produced by The Shame and eurodisc Gmbh Munchen. Cover is startling red on green (front) and green on red (back) with uncredited art and Produced by Frank Zappa & Herb Cohen.
According to John Ellis in 1976 Beefheart "recorded, with Zappa financing "Bat Chain Puller". This album blended the moods of "Kid" and "Decals" and would have been a triumphant return to the fold if it had been issued. Zappa went to war with Warner Brothers as thz LP reached the test press stage; the ensuing legal problems buried it alive. Beefheart was forced to rework and re-record the album, which was finally issued in '78 as "Shiny Beast (Bat Chain Puller)". It ispssible to compare the two because Beefheart's label in England, Virgin, leaked a demo tape which was reviewd in the press and has had wide private circulation".
This is one confusing bootleg! - it should be the Original 1976 Bat Chain Puller and it has live tracks put in as fillers I guess. The tracks start off with Apes Ma, When I See Mommy... and Moonlight on Vermont! - in fact these are from the My Father's Place broadcast. The there is Interview 78 with "Moma heartbeat... shadows from the sun" conversation. Then Bat Chain Puller, which I suspect is a live version but fades out before the applause. Then two '76 tracks Poem and Harry Irene plus 7 more on side 2 gives 9 tracks all together I assueme from the leaked demo tape. Of the 7 on side 2 most are very similar to the 1978 version but one track, called Poem, is the track Odd Job while Owed T'Alex was originally titled Carson City in '76."



1. apes ma
2. when i see mommy I feel like a mummy
3. veteran's day poppy new york 11.12.1978
4. interview 78bat chain puller
5. poem
6. harry irene



1. 81 poop hatch
2. brickbats
3. floppy boot stomp
4. ode t'alex
5. poem
6. human totem pole
7. apes ma


http://www.united-mutations.com/c/capta ... 1976_1.htm

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:58 pm 
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The story goes that UNBEKNOWNST TO FZ, Herb Cohen used FRANK'S MONEY to finance the recording sessions. That is why Frank ended up owning the master tapes, because they were illegally financed by Herb.

I don't expect French to know much of anything about this. He was left in the dark on all biz happenings. That was what I meant on clueless: about biz happenings, which he readily admits.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:19 pm 
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ugliest cover ever.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:47 pm 
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That's just temporary cover art, right? That can't be the real cover. It's like they're not even trying.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:23 pm 
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Read the post. It's a bootleg.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:28 pm 
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No, I believe the cover that they are referring to is the one that GZ displayed in the e-mail that went out (and is included earlier in this thread). White bold font on a black background.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:05 pm 
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Anyone know if Zappa's lawsuits with Warner Brothers had anything to do with the BCP not being released as originally intended?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:45 pm 
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spacebrother wrote:
Anyone know if Zappa's lawsuits with Warner Brothers had anything to do with the BCP not being released as originally intended?

j. fench, jan-99, grow fins cd booklet, pg 89-90 wrote:
... they were originally only going to record half an album, the other half compromising out-takes from the original bat chain puller as per arrangement with frank zappa, who again possessd the tapes after a lengthy lawsuit ... zappa, it was discovered, had changed his mind ...

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:27 am 
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I'll be preordering this little beauty on pay day - this Friday 8)

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:18 am 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
I'm not ordering this until I get the release email.

I'm on the mailing list! :x
PenguinInBondage wrote:
You'll show them! :wink:
Yeah, they seem to have mailing lists out-of-whack.
yeah, that'll show them not to mess with me! :wink:

seriously, though, I'll order it, but I'll wait until it's been released.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:42 am 
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I've heard a rather lousy sounding bootleg of Bat Chain Puller.

Personally I prefer the Shiny Beast album recordings, in fact as crazy as it may sound it's my favourite Beefheart album allongside Doc at the Radar station and Safe as Milk.

But i'm still tempted but the huge sillly europe p&p onm Barfko Swill is a major put off.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:02 am 
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slime.oofytv.set wrote:
spacebrother wrote:
Anyone know if Zappa's lawsuits with Warner Brothers had anything to do with the BCP not being released as originally intended?

j. fench, jan-99, grow fins cd booklet, pg 89-90 wrote:
... they were originally only going to record half an album, the other half compromising out-takes from the original bat chain puller as per arrangement with frank zappa, who again possessd the tapes after a lengthy lawsuit ... zappa, it was discovered, had changed his mind ...


Thanks Slime! 8)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:36 pm 
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It is OK to be excited about this release, but this production credit battle is not worthwhile.

I thought GZ eas saying in her post that she is not in control of the way Musictoday characterized the release as a zappa release. Whatever. I am not really a CB fan, but I recognize his art and do like some of his stuff. I bought this to see what the original sounded like and to get the Walley/Van Fliet unreleased stuff. It is better to get it and not get hung up on the small stuff.

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