Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:19 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Apostrophe - 1969
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 3:23 am
Posts: 3058
Location: Chicago, IL
I just noticed today that the recording process of Apostrophe is listed to begin as far back as 1969. Does anyone have any idea what part of the album comes from that far back?

Gracias!

_________________
Current favorite new spin: Midlake - Provider

Latest Fischer's Flicker press release
I Am Entertainment Magazine - 3.5/4 stars - REVIEW
Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apostrophe - 1969
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:24 am
Posts: 925
Location: Oh, in the sky
I've heard that Excentrifugal Forz is an outtake from Hot Rats but I don't know if I believe it.

_________________
I'm not bald; I'm taller than my hair.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apostrophe - 1969
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 3:23 am
Posts: 3058
Location: Chicago, IL
Philmore wrote:
I've heard that Excentrifugal Forz is an outtake from Hot Rats but I don't know if I believe it.


I suppose it's possible if maybe the synths and what not were added later in the process. Thanks for the "gossip"! :wink:

"along a one-celled Hammond organism underneath my shoes....."

_________________
Current favorite new spin: Midlake - Provider

Latest Fischer's Flicker press release
I Am Entertainment Magazine - 3.5/4 stars - REVIEW
Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apostrophe - 1969
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:24 am
Posts: 925
Location: Oh, in the sky
Then there's this:

From: Charles Ulrich' forthcoming book Project/Object

The basic track for this song was probably recorded at the Hot Rats sessions in 1969. It features Johnny Guerin on drums, Sugarcane Harris on violin, and FZ on guitar. (Perhaps a bass track by Max Bennett and/or a keyboard track by Ian Underwood was discarded.) FZ probably overdubbed bass and vocals in 1973.

_________________
I'm not bald; I'm taller than my hair.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apostrophe - 1969
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 3:23 am
Posts: 3058
Location: Chicago, IL
Philmore wrote:
Then there's this:

From: Charles Ulrich' forthcoming book Project/Object

The basic track for this song was probably recorded at the Hot Rats sessions in 1969. It features Johnny Guerin on drums, Sugarcane Harris on violin, and FZ on guitar. (Perhaps a bass track by Max Bennett and/or a keyboard track by Ian Underwood was discarded.) FZ probably overdubbed bass and vocals in 1973.


Forthcoming? What are you... clairvoyant? :mrgreen:
Very interesting. He does say "probably" but after re-listening to the track, I could visualize the hypothesis. :wink:
I'd argue that synths were overdubbed in '73 as well....

_________________
Current favorite new spin: Midlake - Provider

Latest Fischer's Flicker press release
I Am Entertainment Magazine - 3.5/4 stars - REVIEW
Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apostrophe - 1969
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:55 am
Posts: 1160
I read a story once where John Guerin said FZ gave him a gold record for Apostrophe. Guerin said he didn't realize he was on the record, and FZ said he had taken some old drum tracks by Guerin and wrote a new song around them.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apostrophe - 1969
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 3:23 am
Posts: 3058
Location: Chicago, IL
pbuzby wrote:
I read a story once where John Guerin said FZ gave him a gold record for Apostrophe. Guerin said he didn't realize he was on the record, and FZ said he had taken some old drum tracks by Guerin and wrote a new song around them.


Thanks for the anecdote! :smoke:

_________________
Current favorite new spin: Midlake - Provider

Latest Fischer's Flicker press release
I Am Entertainment Magazine - 3.5/4 stars - REVIEW
Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apostrophe - 1969
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:48 am
Posts: 6181
Location: Your Mom's Box
pbuzby wrote:
I read a story once where John Guerin said FZ gave him a gold record for Apostrophe. Guerin said he didn't realize he was on the record, and FZ said he had taken some old drum tracks by Guerin and wrote a new song around them.


Toof!!

_________________
Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apostrophe - 1969
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:55 am
Posts: 1160
Incidentally, in one 1973 show FZ uses the title "Excentrifugal Forz" for the instrumental later called "Echidna's Arf," so that suggests he indeed wrote the words for the cut from Apostrophe later in 1973, and reassigned the titles.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apostrophe - 1969
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 5900
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
From Information Is Not Knowledge

Excentrifugal Forz

FZ--guitar, bouzouki, bass, lead vocals
And probably:
George Duke--synthesizer
Jean-Luc Ponty--violin?
Sugar Cane Harris--violin?
Johnny Guerin--drums

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apostrophe - 1969
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:48 pm
Posts: 18103
Location: Somewhere in time
Back in the mid 70's the story was floating around LA that FZ was told by the record company that they wanted another good seller like ONS but that could be played on the radio. He then went in the studio and took all this left over material, he had brought in musicians and put together Apostrophe incredibly quick. He then went back to the record company a short time later and presented the completed work, Yellow Snow went on to be a hit and the record company people couldn't understand how he did it so fast. Supposedly the song Yellow Snow in some way recounts the story of FZ (Nanook) and his battles with the record company execs (Fur Trapper)...


:smoke:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apostrophe - 1969
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2002 12:41 pm
Posts: 13497
Location: Schools that do not teach
There is nothing like breakfast over Zappa.com Zappa Forum... You people rule!

Thanks, plook!

_________________
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apostrophe - 1969
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2005 3:44 pm
Posts: 1466
Location: An air base in Central Europe
Methinks that the entire side 2 of (') harkens back to pre-'73 times, EF to '69 (basic tr.), the title cut to '72, the Remus basic tr. stems from the Waka sessions ('72) and the Stinkfoot basic track with Sugarcane & Aynsley from spring '70 --

This means a great variety of drummers for noisydrum and me to salivate over --
:)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apostrophe - 1969
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 3:23 am
Posts: 3058
Location: Chicago, IL
pbuzby wrote:
Incidentally, in one 1973 show FZ uses the title "Excentrifugal Forz" for the instrumental later called "Echidna's Arf," so that suggests he indeed wrote the words for the cut from Apostrophe later in 1973, and reassigned the titles.


Hmmmm - so can one sing EF over the melody/rhythm of EA? :wink:

_________________
Current favorite new spin: Midlake - Provider

Latest Fischer's Flicker press release
I Am Entertainment Magazine - 3.5/4 stars - REVIEW
Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apostrophe - 1969
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:55 am
Posts: 1160
Plook wrote:
Back in the mid 70's the story was floating around LA that FZ was told by the record company that they wanted another good seller like ONS but that could be played on the radio. He then went in the studio and took all this left over material, he had brought in musicians and put together Apostrophe incredibly quick. He then went back to the record company a short time later and presented the completed work, Yellow Snow went on to be a hit and the record company people couldn't understand how he did it so fast. Supposedly the song Yellow Snow in some way recounts the story of FZ (Nanook) and his battles with the record company execs (Fur Trapper)...


:smoke:


First live performance of "Yellow Snow" was April 73, Overnite Sensation was released September 73.

Although I guess that doesn't discount "Yellow Snow" having something to do with earlier battles with execs.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apostrophe - 1969
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 3:23 am
Posts: 3058
Location: Chicago, IL
pbuzby wrote:
Although I guess that doesn't discount "Yellow Snow" having something to do with earlier battles with execs.


Ah, a career's worth of plooking. :wink:

_________________
Current favorite new spin: Midlake - Provider

Latest Fischer's Flicker press release
I Am Entertainment Magazine - 3.5/4 stars - REVIEW
Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apostrophe - 1969
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:16 am
Posts: 2437
buffalo_voice wrote:
Methinks that the entire side 2 of (') harkens back to pre-'73 times, EF to '69 (basic tr.), the title cut to '72, the Remus basic tr. stems from the Waka sessions ('72) and the Stinkfoot basic track with Sugarcane & Aynsley from spring '70 --

This means a great variety of drummers for noisydrum and me to salivate over --
:)


8)

_________________
"drums are too noisy, 'n you've got no corners to hide in"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apostrophe - 1969
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:11 am
Posts: 1023
Location: North German Wasteland
BTW:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanook_of_the_North

Th.

_________________
Active forum member since 2005 - R E T I R E D from public forum activity in 2013


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apostrophe - 1969
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:53 am
Posts: 2133
Location: Hamilton, NJ
pbuzby wrote:
Plook wrote:
Back in the mid 70's the story was floating around LA that FZ was told by the record company that they wanted another good seller like ONS but that could be played on the radio. He then went in the studio and took all this left over material, he had brought in musicians and put together Apostrophe incredibly quick. He then went back to the record company a short time later and presented the completed work, Yellow Snow went on to be a hit and the record company people couldn't understand how he did it so fast. Supposedly the song Yellow Snow in some way recounts the story of FZ (Nanook) and his battles with the record company execs (Fur Trapper)...


:smoke:


First live performance of "Yellow Snow" was April 73, Overnite Sensation was released September 73.

Although I guess that doesn't discount "Yellow Snow" having something to do with earlier battles with execs.


They played a version of it in Princeton, N.J. The first time I saw Frank.

_________________
If we're dumb . . .
Then God is dumb . . .
(An' maybe even a little bit ugly on the side)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apostrophe - 1969
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:55 am
Posts: 1160
tweezers wrote:

They played a version of it in Princeton, N.J. The first time I saw Frank.


That is the first known version (April 27, 1973). Also the first of the few shows they played with Kin Vassy on vocals.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apostrophe - 1969
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 5900
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
The original track for Down In De Dew from Lather came from the same session.

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Apostrophe - 1969
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:53 am
Posts: 2133
Location: Hamilton, NJ
pbuzby wrote:
tweezers wrote:

They played a version of it in Princeton, N.J. The first time I saw Frank.


That is the first known version (April 27, 1973). Also the first of the few shows they played with Kin Vassy on vocals.



Thanks pbuzby, I didn't realize that. It was truly a great show.

_________________
If we're dumb . . .
Then God is dumb . . .
(An' maybe even a little bit ugly on the side)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group