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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:55 pm 
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Fair enough. Just not accustomed to seeing Läther under so much scrutiny. After all, that was a Ryko title that most of us liked.

I recall people saying they preferred their Edison bootleg to the Ryko CD, but never saw anyone claim that the radio broadcast was different.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:24 pm 
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dlokazip wrote:
Just not accustomed to seeing Läther under so much scrutiny. After all, that was a Ryko title that most of us liked.
I got all fired up about this UME thing at the start. I bought the first 36, 12 at a time, without batting an eyelid. To me, the Chunga's Revenge remaster is fantastic. I could hardly bare to listen to it before and it's one of my favourite FZ albums.

37 through 48, I didn't get Mothermania, I mean, deep down, who really gives a fuck about that album? You have to realise that when I first started to really get into FZ in 1975, the market was still flooded with a totally ridiculous number of early Mothers compilations because FZ hadn't won his case against MGM yet at that stage. For a new fan who was trying to find out what was a genuine item and what wasn't and still in the flush of buying FZ albums like they were life support in a plane crash, I ended up with a lot of those bullshit Verve albums. Consequently, when I eventually discovered Mothermania it was quite an anticlimax.

And now the fizz has almost gone out of this thing entirely. I have none of the last 12 on preorder. I'm having much more fun with my Lark's Tongues box at the moment.

My particular scrutiny of Läther is to determine why I need to be spending $33 on something I already have.

And where the fuck is 200 Motels? (Although, I'm so familiar with the one I have already that I can't tell it's a bad production any more)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:03 am 
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polydigm wrote:

37 through 48, I didn't get Mothermania, I mean, deep down, who really gives a fuck about that album?

And where the fuck is 200 Motels? (Although, I'm so familiar with the one I have already that I can't tell it's a bad production any more)

I don't. Sure, it's fun to hear the different mix of The Idiot Bastard Son, but I like it more when it's in the context of the WOIIFTM-album. So I won't get it either. And I have a lot more of the new remasters to buy (I don't have that much money to order all at once ;)).

Yeah, 200 Motels is the one I'm looking forward to the most.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:38 am 
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polydigm wrote:
dlokazip wrote:
Just not accustomed to seeing Läther under so much scrutiny. After all, that was a Ryko title that most of us liked.
I got all fired up about this UME thing at the start. I bought the first 36, 12 at a time, without batting an eyelid. To me, the Chunga's Revenge remaster is fantastic. I could hardly bare to listen to it before and it's one of my favourite FZ albums.

37 through 48, I didn't get Mothermania, I mean, deep down, who really gives a fuck about that album? You have to realise that when I first started to really get into FZ in 1975, the market was still flooded with a totally ridiculous number of early Mothers compilations because FZ hadn't won his case against MGM yet at that stage. For a new fan who was trying to find out what was a genuine item and what wasn't and still in the flush of buying FZ albums like they were life support in a plane crash, I ended up with a lot of those bullshit Verve albums. Consequently, when I eventually discovered Mothermania it was quite an anticlimax.

And now the fizz has almost gone out of this thing entirely. I have none of the last 12 on preorder. I'm having much more fun with my Lark's Tongues box at the moment.

My particular scrutiny of Läther is to determine why I need to be spending $33 on something I already have.

And where the fuck is 200 Motels? (Although, I'm so familiar with the one I have already that I can't tell it's a bad production any more)


Again, fair enough. I won't buy the new Läther either, unless there is a compelling reason to do so. Changing the cover isn't a compelling reason.

My guess with 200 Motels is that they couldn't get the proper logistics and legalities completed in time for the reissue campaign. I imagine that the rights exists somewhere in the Universal Music family, so once the paperwork is out of the way, all that would need to be done is get the tapes ready.

I had no intention of buying any reissues that sounded identical to the previous CDs, so the reissue campaign petered out for me, too. Still, it was good to fill the holes in my collection as well as welcoming the upgrades. In that regard, I'm done.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:48 am 
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My personal experience is that over the recent years my interest in Zappa's later output from 1980 on decreased very much. That surprisingly wasn't the case 10 or 20 years ago. I realize that I almost never listen to anything from 1981 on anymore. Including the orchestral and Synclavier stuff, the low point being the 88 tour for some years.

Opposed to that I have been listening to all the (analog sourced) reissues for month and nothing else (by anybody), Chunga's Revenge being the one that is running the most. Either Frank lost his focus with his later stuff or I developed a focus for the earlier stuff over the years ;-).

The differences for titles like JG, TTR, YAWYI, SUAPYG are less significant and I could have lived pretty much with the Rykos of JG and SUAPYG, and the EMIs of YAWYI and TTR. So I wouldn't buy any of the reissues of the later stuff.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:30 am 
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I can't say I've noticed any significant differences between the Edison bootleg of Läther and the Ryko CD - apart from the bonus tracks and some distortion during the last side of the Edison LP (Greggery Peccary), sounding like the kind of pressing problems you might expect from a bootleg. If anything, the CD sounds slightly "fatter" (bass preference during mastering). If you compare the Sleep Dirt tracks from Bob Ludwig's mastering with the Läther CD, they're very similar, too - although the 2012 versions are even more bassy - if that's still a word... I haven't noticed any differences in content between the tracks on the Edison and Ryko editions. I suppose an individual's preference for the bootleg could be attributed to some singular eccentricity, like my own taste for the Ryko version of Absolutely Free! :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:32 am 
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Dark Clothes wrote:
I can't say I've noticed any significant differences between the Edison bootleg of Läther and the Ryko CD …

OMG!!!

I couldn't explain it better than this:

Quote:
Dave-o Thomas "fairly exhasperates":

Oh, for cryin' out loud! how long are you vinyl purists gonna beat this dead puppy?! Frank takes an LP, plays it through the cartridge of a radio station in Atlanta, which goes through some board designed to play Uriah Heep records, then through a couple miles of wire, into a processor/limiter designed to make the best of a limited-range radio signal, then goes into the limited-range radio signal transmitter, then into the air, where you pick it up on whatever you were listening to in 1977, then you make some molecules wiggle onto an oxidized tape that already has some sort of soup of oxidized wiggles on it ... and you claim what you have on tape has enough signal superiority to beat what Ryko put onto 3 CDs two years ago?!?

http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/v ... ather.html

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:38 am 
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Ha! Love that explanation - thanks for sharing Thinman! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:48 am 
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The Edison bootleg LPs were made from a direct transfer of the 4 LP test pressing, not from the radio broadcasts.

Idiots. :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:49 am 
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and the Edison LPs DID sound fantastic.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:54 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
The Edison bootleg LPs were made from a direct transfer of the 4 LP test pressing, not from the radio broadcasts.

Idiots. :roll:


Ah, thanks for clarifying that! As a vinyl appreciator and not as a practicing enthusiast, I had no idea.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:08 pm 
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jaypfunk wrote:
The Edison bootleg LPs were made from a direct transfer of the 4 LP test pressing, not from the radio broadcasts.

Idiots. :roll:

Can anyone, who not only believes, confirm this? To my knowledge to this day this is a rumour only. Or did jaypfunk do the transfer himself? And what would be a "direct transfer"? From LP to LP, or what? In the best case it would be a DJ tape copy or even a cassette.

Th.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:51 pm 
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I used to respect Thinman. No I'm fed up with the arrogant prejudices. Talk about the Edison LP when you've heard it, or else shut up.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:55 pm 
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Dark Clothes wrote:
I used to respect Thinman. No I'm fed up with the arrogant prejudices. Talk about the Edison LP when you've heard it, or else shut up.


exactly

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:31 pm 
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I bought Mothermania and I think it's great. I like the way FZ mixed up the songs and the way they flow into each other. After a while of listening to the original mixes I tend to stop listening to what is being played. But when you here a song that wasn't following the song you just heard, you get sucked back into FZ world and you get a new appreciation of his music. It's just a different way of hearing the familiar.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:01 pm 
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Edison records died around the time of Silent Movies :D

Tell us what happened, as far as why this record is not being released and how come.
FZ:Well, it's not very simple to explain but I'll make a stab at it, and I don't really believe that people want to listen to a bunch of legal crud on the radio, but it's kinda unavoidable. Warner Brothers does not have the rights to this material although it was delivered to them and they refused to pay me for the material. And so I claimed a breach of contract and set out to negotiate with some other record companies. In several instances, Warner Brothers interfered with those negotiations and spoiled the possibility of releasing this material elsewhere.


The first place they did it was with EMI, and the second place they did it was with Mercury Phonogram, and Mercury Phonogram was enough into the deal where they had made test pressings – they were ready to press the album, the cover was printed and so on and so forth. What you're listening to now is actual test pressings of the album that Mercury Phonogram had prepared. At the last minute, Warner Brothers threatened them with legal proceedings and blah, blah, blah, and so they backed out of the deal. And the way it stands now, my future as a recording artist is dangling in midair pending court procedures, which in California for civil cases can take anywhere from 3 to 5 years just to get a day in court and have your case heard.

Since I don't think that anybody wants to wait 3 to 5 years to hear my wonderful music ...
http://wiki.killuglyradio.com/wiki/Tape_It!

No Mention of Edison i wonder why :smoke:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:31 pm 
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cleon wrote:
Edison records died around the time of Silent Movies... No Mention of Edison i wonder why ...
Cleon, they're talking about a different Edison - just the name of a company bootlegging a version of Läther back in the eighties. There seems to be enough evidence to indicate that a bootleg very close in quality to FZ's original master could be out there.

Anyway, back to the new release. Don't get me wrong based on what I've said above. We all want to see the whole of FZ's discography available for sale. It's not just about long term fans agonising over which ones they will or won't buy.

Now that Ryko is out of the picture, Läther being, I think, a valid ZFT release in the first place, now has to be distributed by the ZFT somehow. I just don't get why it can't continue to be distributed (after removing Ryko's name from the cover of course) with it's already existing format.

Instead, we now have two significantly different versions, one with bonus tracks and one without. As if the FZ situation isn't complicated enough already.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:46 pm 
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Radio play almost all tracks sure i read that somewhere does that mean compared too 1996 release or The Edison lp's?which i agree is from the 80's :?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:13 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
Instead, we now have two significantly different versions, one with bonus tracks and one without. As if the FZ situation isn't complicated enough already.


We don't know that for a fact yet. The track listing on Best Buy's site could be wrong. The track listing could be identical.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:17 pm 
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dlokazip wrote:
polydigm wrote:
Instead, we now have two significantly different versions, one with bonus tracks and one without. As if the FZ situation isn't complicated enough already.
We don't know that for a fact yet. The track listing on Best Buy's site could be wrong. The track listing could be identical.
Facts with the ZFT are a little like fish. We all seem to be fishing with the wrong bait.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:41 pm 
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jaypfunk wrote:
Dark Clothes wrote:
I used to respect Thinman. No I'm fed up with the arrogant prejudices. Talk about the Edison LP when you've heard it, or else shut up.


exactly

Calm down, people. I had heard several bootlegs of Läther. But that was somewhat 30 years ago. Probably the Edison version wasn't among them. All versions I had heard sounded like they came from the same radio broadcast source, though.

http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/bootlegs/counterfeits.html#L%E4ther

Th.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:14 am 
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Thinman wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
Dark Clothes wrote:
I used to respect Thinman. No I'm fed up with the arrogant prejudices. Talk about the Edison LP when you've heard it, or else shut up.


exactly

Calm down, people. I had heard several bootlegs of Läther. But that was somewhat 30 years ago. Probably the Edison version wasn't among them. All versions I had heard sounded like they came from the same radio broadcast source, though.

http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/bootlegs/counterfeits.html#L%E4ther

Th.

I'd like to hear the Vaultmeisters take on this drama.( I'm very calm,you don't seem so) Was-up Th.?

30 year old ears getting rusty? :wink: {-

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:09 am 
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Thinman - stop selecting quotes to misrepresent others, try to understand the opponent's view (a prerequisite of philosophical debate), stop acting like you have superior knowledge/judgment - then I'll calm down.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:23 am 
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Dark Clothes wrote:
… stop acting like you have superior knowledge/judgment…


KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
Was-up Th.?

30 year old ears getting rusty? :wink: {-


No, probably WWW-facts-quotes-guesses-opinions-knowledge-judgement-confusion-forum-overkill during the last months dealing with the reissues. Time again to step back to real life for a while.

Th.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:45 am 
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Thinman wrote:
KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
Was-up Th.?

30 year old ears getting rusty? :wink: {-


No, probably WWW-facts-quotes-guesses-opinions-knowledge-judgement-confusion-forum-overkill during the last months dealing with the reissues. Time again to step back to real life for a while.

If it's that hard for you,the Th.,it must be tough on JT & Crew.Someone holds them to a higher standard.That would be us,the fans.The supply demand thing.
I don't need anyone as my compass for all things FZ,but you amonst others give us all a great overview & glimpse into why we all find Frank so freakin' facinating.Not just his image,but to us, walkin' down the street and hearing a sound a note that sez: This is FZ and it puts a smile on your face and we are together.This forum and it's members can be very informative as long as that other expert bar none stays on DZW where he enjoys depository reinforcement on his brown lipped "watch your ankles boy" treatment that ain't happening here.

To all of the forum members,thanx manx! You guys are how I choose which FZ to get next.This thread is great and some valid pionts are made by all...so thanks for helping me decide.I'm already a ZappaFreak,but rereading this thread,why any newbie would be well informed about the releases and think we're all nuts.Oh well,what ever gets and keeps them here.....Right Gail? :mrgreen:



Well FZ Sez it best :
Do ya love it.
Do ya hate it?
There it is the way you made it .....wow. :shock:

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