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PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:29 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
Quilt wrote:
If Zappa was so good why do we need new improved remasters, rather then the FZ-approved ones? (Devil's Advocate moment. Please forgive me. I am an asshole etcetcetc)
Very funny, but seriously, I think the answer to that is similar to comparing modern 33rpm vinyl with Edison cylinders. Zappa was in a hurry at a time when digital was still in its infancy.

I sort of had this in mind when I begun the discussion: Zappa was very idiosyncratic and he did it despite knowing he would not please the masses... That is why he did it, because he could, and he wanted to play with his new toys, including the perfect drum sound (seems they spend days trying different heads, tuning, miking, etc...).

Oddly enough, when I first heard the WOIIFTM tweaked version, was the first time I heard it at all. I wasn't aware of the overdubbing stuff and I remember being puzzled how the drums sounded so clear for a record that old... 8)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:00 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:01 am 
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can't forget Raymond Scott.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:36 am 
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steve albini


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:23 pm 
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Lee "Scratch" Perry has gotta be up there.
Anyone who smokes a ton of ganja and buries master tapes in his backyard dirt for a spell to give them an "earthy" sound has gotta be hangin' out with Jesus.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:40 pm 
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Pretty close for me. I do love George Martin's work and although Spector is such a horrible guy, I have to admit he was pretty brilliant in the studio.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:28 pm 
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yes he was but the problem is he just did so much that i think it sometimes gets lost, he he had only made We're Only In It For The Money he would have been hailed as amazing by the mainstream, but because he was constantly innovating after a while people stop taking notice, it's there loss really,,, every album as something new and amazing in it...

Sheik Yerbouti: taking live performances and treating them like a new studio album instead of a live album...

Joe's Garage with the Guitar Solo's all being (apart from watermelon) from different performances and not connected with the rhythm section of the tracks (you lot know what i mean)

The Man From Utopia whether you like it or not (I LOVE IT) is an amazingly innovative album..
nothing else like it in 83..

Up to the end civilization, the guitar albums, the list is endless,
constantly innovating and very underrated if you ask me...

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:28 pm 
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Everybody knows Frank can't touch Austin Wiggin.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:07 pm 
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mistrijah wrote:
yes he was but the problem is he just did so much that i think it sometimes gets lost, he he had only made We're Only In It For The Money he would have been hailed as amazing by the mainstream, but because he was constantly innovating after a while people stop taking notice, it's there loss really,,,

Whether the point was lost on anyone is irrelevent, Phil Spector was one of the most influential producers of all time.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:57 am 
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beajerkgotowork wrote:
mistrijah wrote:
yes he was but the problem is he just did so much that i think it sometimes gets lost, he he had only made We're Only In It For The Money he would have been hailed as amazing by the mainstream, but because he was constantly innovating after a while people stop taking notice, it's there loss really,,,

Whether the point was lost on anyone is irrelevent, Phil Spector was one of the most influential producers of all time.


my post was noting to do with Spector, it was pure Zappa... Phil Spector may have been influential but he was a one trick pony with his wall of sound, clever as it was thats his one trick

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:14 am 
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mistrijah wrote:
beajerkgotowork wrote:
mistrijah wrote:
yes he was but the problem is he just did so much that i think it sometimes gets lost, he he had only made We're Only In It For The Money he would have been hailed as amazing by the mainstream, but because he was constantly innovating after a while people stop taking notice, it's there loss really,,,

Whether the point was lost on anyone is irrelevent, Phil Spector was one of the most influential producers of all time.


my post was noting to do with Spector, it was pure Zappa... Phil Spector may have been influential but he was a one trick pony with his wall of sound, clever as it was thats his one trick


You cannot compare eras, because the tech was different. The reason that the wall of sound was so influential had as much to do with the concrete walls of the recording studio as anything else.

Les Paul invented uverdubs, but most recording up until the mid-sixties was 'live' takes with all the instruments playing at once. It was impossible to do what Zappa did with building 32 tracks into the section after "my ship of love is ready to attack" on UM.

Razor-blade edits and re-recording on tape was all there was until digital in the '80s. Many of the 'mistakes' we all talk about in the beginning of digital recording had to do with the technology itself and the sense of experimentation that old-school producers employed till they found out the limitations of the technology.

I would put the 'ears' of Jimmy Iovine, Frank Zappa, Phil Spector, George Martin and Les Paul against any fool with Pro Tools and whatever else there is today (Sly Stone, Stevie Wonder and Lee 'Scratch' Perry were no slouches either).

I would also suggest that the technicians who got the hall acoustics optimally miked for the late 1930s recordings of Duke Ellington had ten times the skill of Rick Rubin, Skrillex, Deadmus5 or all the 'giants' of today's sound.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:38 pm 
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mistrijah wrote:
my post was noting to do with Spector, it was pure Zappa... Phil Spector may have been influential but he was a one trick pony with his wall of sound, clever as it was thats his one trick

Apologies, I misread!

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:14 pm 
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Plook wrote:
Mick Jones


Good call.

Brian Wilson deserves a mention.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:16 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Brian Wilson deserves a mention.

Absolutely.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:30 am 
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beajerkgotowork wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
Brian Wilson deserves a mention.

Absolutely.



+1... :smoke:


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:54 am 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
Everybody knows Frank can't touch Austin Wiggin.



You know that famous FZ quote re: better than the Beatles?

I found out like a month ago he never actually said that.

boo hoo


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:16 pm 
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Caputh wrote:
Didn't Wood of Wizzard claim to be wizard (not that he was)?


The stuff he did was really fun, and he played all the instruments ... "Mustard" is great and so is "Eddie and the Falcons" which is a nice satire on the 50's music ... and is well done! "Mustard" is also a lot of satire although I look at it as 60's music and then some more weirdness.

He might not be a wizzard, but he can play and mix things and then some ... and spend time with Annie Haslam for a while, too! Can't be all bad despite all that hair!

Todd Rundgren was probably one of the first folks to use computers extensively, and create music with them ... which may not be a big thing, but he was involved early with Cakewalk and its program. Cakewalk probably robbed him blind ... but then, he will be remembered and Cakewalk will not!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:28 pm 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:

I sort of had this in mind when I begun the discussion: Zappa was very idiosyncratic and he did it despite knowing he would not please the masses... That is why he did it, because he could, and he wanted to play with his new toys, including the perfect drum sound (seems they spend days trying different heads, tuning, miking, etc...).
...


I don't think he was as idiosyncratic as we think. I do believe that he thought the music needed to be far more different than it was, and his changing it and adding/subtracting to it all the time pretty much shows/expresses that sentiment.

The problem is, that we think he is idiosyncratic, because we do not know his thinking or feeling whenhe does it ... and sometimes there is ... NONE ... to be discussed, thus, it is much easier for us to call him idiosyncratic than anything else.

It is different, and it happens to be one of the byproducts of music in the 20th century that you can record some parts, come back and fix it, before anyone listens to it ... and now with DAW's this is even more so than ever.

Music history has given us a false impression that to make changes and do something different is not right, and this is what the 20th and 21st century in music is trying hard to dispell, and both jazz and rock are at the forefront. IF, and this could be a big IF, this is all about the "idiosyncratic behavior ... then what are we going to say about Stravinsky and so many others in teh 20th Century? ... think about that before you reply ... because many folks, Stravinsky included were trashed for their idiosyncratic composition ... but no one today will ever say that!

It can not be "idiosyncratic" that much anyway ... otherwise there would be 100 different versions of Peaches en Regalia on the Toilet Seat ... and we would be arguing which one was better ... but when putting together things, sometimes you think that it is better with the guitar upside down here, and the drums backwards there ... so what? ... that's just the way it is ... but if all you want it top ten ... please leave Frank alone ... he ... and the fans here ... are NOT interested!

It's important that we study that ... Frank is not idiosyncratic ... at all ... Frank is fussy and detailed about his work ... and we should give him that space!


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:41 pm 
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idiosyncratic:

1. A structural or behavioral characteristic peculiar to an individual or group.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:31 am 
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Moshkito wrote:
Caputh wrote:
Didn't Wood of Wizzard claim to be wizard (not that he was)?


The stuff he did was really fun, and he played all the instruments ... "Mustard" is great and so is "Eddie and the Falcons" which is a nice satire on the 50's music ... and is well done! "Mustard" is also a lot of satire although I look at it as 60's music and then some more weirdness.

He might not be a wizzard, but he can play and mix things and then some ... and spend time with Annie Haslam for a while, too! Can't be all bad despite all that hair!

Todd Rundgren was probably one of the first folks to use computers extensively, and create music with them ... which may not be a big thing, but he was involved early with Cakewalk and its program. Cakewalk probably robbed him blind ... but then, he will be remembered and Cakewalk will not!



During the Back to the Bars tour in 1978 he showed videos during his concerts saying it would be the waive of the future, no one new what the hell he was talking about at the time... :smoke:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:45 am 
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Yes, dm, I guess one can safely say Frank zappa was idiosyncratic...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:43 pm 
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Hendrix 60's
Zappa 70's
DRE 80'S
TimbeRland 90'S

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:45 pm 
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Moshkito wrote:
Mr_Green_Genes wrote:

I sort of had this in mind when I begun the discussion: Zappa was very idiosyncratic and he did it despite knowing he would not please the masses... That is why he did it, because he could, and he wanted to play with his new toys, including the perfect drum sound (seems they spend days trying different heads, tuning, miking, etc...).
...


I don't think he was as idiosyncratic as we think. I do believe that he thought the music needed to be far more different than it was, and his changing it and adding/subtracting to it all the time pretty much shows/expresses that sentiment.

The problem is, that we think he is idiosyncratic, because we do not know his thinking or feeling whenhe does it ... and sometimes there is ... NONE ... to be discussed, thus, it is much easier for us to call him idiosyncratic than anything else.

It is different, and it happens to be one of the byproducts of music in the 20th century that you can record some parts, come back and fix it, before anyone listens to it ... and now with DAW's this is even more so than ever.



Music history has given us a false impression that to make changes and do something different is not right, and this is what the 20th and 21st century in music is trying hard to dispell, and both jazz and rock are at the forefront. IF, and this could be a big IF, this is all about the "idiosyncratic behavior ... then what are we going to say about Stravinsky and so many others in teh 20th Century? ... think about that before you reply ... because many folks, Stravinsky included were trashed for their idiosyncratic composition ... but no one today will ever say that!

It can not be "idiosyncratic" that much anyway ... otherwise there would be 100 different versions of Peaches en Regalia on the Toilet Seat ... and we would be arguing which one was better ... but when putting together things, sometimes you think that it is better with the guitar upside down here, and the drums backwards there ... so what? ... that's just the way it is ... but if all you want it top ten ... please leave Frank alone ... he ... and the fans here ... are NOT interested!




It's important that we study that ... Frank is not idiosyncratic ... at all ... Frank is fussy and detailed about his work ... and we should give him that space!



Fair tp say....that......you.....have an idiocy...crat...ic writing sty....l..e

:lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:45 pm 
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jaypfunk wrote:
BBP wrote:
The greatest studio wizard ever is Ian McKellen.


shut up, stupid.

jaypfunk never told me to fuck off , i feel like a good guy :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:35 am 
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It was about the first thing he did to me when I got here as a fresh Zappa-fannette owning only a few comps and SATLTSADW and ', back in 2002. It's his hobby, his raison d'être if you will. Which is all-right, Snookie can use every fan she can get now with that baby.

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