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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:03 am 
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As others have pointed out, it's an interesting idea, but there's NO way in hell this is going to work considering the variables involved. And for too many reasons to mention. But I'll try my best to summarize...

First of all, why would the ZFT think there would be approximately 1,000 fans that would be able to afford to put on their businessman hat and jump on board this venture, not to mention create the time to make it work?!!!

Secondly, even though I believe demand will be a bit higher for this title than most ZFT releases over the past 15 years, which I estimate have sold 5,000-10,000 units each, I don't believe Roxy by Proxy will sell more than 10,000 units. So, probable CD cost of $15 x 10,000 units = $150,000. And of course the sellers don't get to keep anywhere near that amount of $$$ due to manufacturing costs, etc. And since the amount of capital the ZFT apparently need to finish The Roxy Performances DVD is $1 million (1,000 fans x $1,000 per each fan) along with considering the basic gross sales for Roxy by Proxy probably won't be more than $150,000, unless the ZFT can convince approximately 1,000 fans to participate, I don't see how ANY fan would think they could profit from this. The best case scenario would be that if 1,000 fans did sign up, consequently each participant would be able to sell about 10 CDs. But the profit margin would be minimal - I’d estimate about $100, tops. However, each participant would lose about $900, considering the $1,000 they would’ve initially invested for the ACTUAL LICENCE and entire deal. So ultimately, there wouldn’t be a profit for them after all.

Lastly, we've all been promised The Roxy Performances DVD for EONS now. And the way the ZFT phrased the email for this "project" heavily implies that if it doesn't work and they don't end up getting the amount of fan support/capital they need to apparently finish The Roxy Performances DVD, then we won’t be getting it. If this is true, then that seriously would piss me off (and I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels that way). And this is coming from someone who hasn't been that critical of the ZFT since I've been posting here now for 10 years. But that might change… :?


I for one, will wait for Barfko Swill to sell Roxy by Proxy instead…


Btw, IMO, if it does FINALLY get released, The Roxy Performances DVD will outsell Roxy by Proxy BY FAR…

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:16 am 
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I know a couple of people who will probably shell out the thousand bucks and jump on this, but....sheesh. DZPZ better get ready to play a lot of promotional shows in my neck of the woods if they are serious about this and want to promote the old fashioned way...

I won't make assumptions or speculations about how many units, or potential units will sell. Speculators and people who pull numbers out of their asses are just lame asses themselves. [insert obnoxious belch here]


Take your estimations and your preperations and cram them up your snout...




I hope this is a successful approach. There's nothing I would love to do more than to see a Zappa concert on the local IMAX...in 3D...No D...or whatever...


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:51 am 
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An honest question -

Is the ZFT also gonna be selling this - thus being in direct competition of all of their newly trusted distributors? If that is the case - we'd have to undersell the ZFT or offer a better postal rate or delivery...waiit a minute - I see an opportunity here....

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:14 am 
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I'm going to get two licences... One of them, I'll just keep in the wrapper...

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:34 am 
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Maybe it would work if there were 1000 Trendmongers?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:14 am 
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I wonder how many total units they have moved of the 2012 masters. I can look at Amazon and know where each is in relation to all the other Amazon sales, but that tells me nothing. Is there a source for such info?

BTW, Mothermania sounds nice...

I do hope that this works for them, I have a wife and bills and it's the holidays. I would like to have enough p=bread so that I could just get the license, put it in a frame and hang it on the wall, but I think I will just buy the disc from Barfko. I wish them the best.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:28 am 
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Ruz-El wrote:
This has shit show written all over it.

They should of flat out started a kickstarter with this prequel soundtrack as a "reward" at one of the levels. It's proven successful for many folk with a lower profile than Zappa, it seems like a no brainer to me.

It's also pretty insulting. There's a passive aggressive "You guys think this is so easy, YOU distribute these fucking things!" thing going on with this too.

As said elsewhere in this thread,if this is how the ZFT plans to get the Roxy movie finished, then it's not happening.

I'll hope for the best, buy the disc from the Zappa site if it appears since who knows what the fuck you're going to get from some schmuck with a thousand bucks and an ego, and hope we see the movie at some point.


When they hinted at a big surprise for the Roxy movie, et al, I was sure it would be a kickstarter. That made sense to me.
This does not.
I wonder how many people actually have both the free time and money to do this?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:33 am 
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Disco Boy wrote:
As others have pointed out, it's an interesting idea, but there's NO way in hell this is going to work considering the variables involved. And for too many reasons to mention. But I'll try my best to summarize...

First of all, why would the ZFT think there would be approximately 1,000 fans that would be able to afford to put on their businessman hat and jump on board this venture, not to mention create the time to make it work?!!!

Secondly, even though I believe demand will be a bit higher for this title than most ZFT releases over the past 15 years, which I estimate have sold 5,000-10,000 units each, I don't believe Roxy by Proxy will sell more than 10,000 units. So, probable CD cost of $15 x 10,000 units = $150,000. And of course the sellers don't get to keep anywhere near that amount of $$$ due to manufacturing costs, etc. And since the amount of capital the ZFT apparently need to finish The Roxy Performances DVD is $1 million (1,000 fans x $1,000 per each fan) along with considering the basic gross sales for Roxy by Proxy probably won't be more than $150,000, unless the ZFT can convince approximately 1,000 fans to participate, I don't see how ANY fan would think they could profit from this. The best case scenario would be that if 1,000 fans did sign up, consequently each participant would be able to sell about 10 CDs. But the profit margin would be minimal - I’d estimate about $100, tops. However, each participant would lose about $900, considering the $1,000 they would’ve initially invested for the ACTUAL LICENCE and entire deal. So ultimately, there wouldn’t be a profit for them after all.

Lastly, we've all been promised The Roxy Performances DVD for EONS now. And the way the ZFT phrased the email for this "project" heavily implies that if it doesn't work and they don't end up getting the amount of fan support/capital they need to apparently finish The Roxy Performances DVD, then we won’t be getting it. If this is true, then that seriously would piss me off (and I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels that way). And this is coming from someone who hasn't been that critical of the ZFT since I've been posting here now for 10 years. But that might change… :?


I for one, will wait for Barfko Swill to sell Roxy by Proxy instead…


Btw, IMO, if it does FINALLY get released, The Roxy Performances DVD will outsell Roxy by Proxy BY FAR…


The only other thing I can even think of, that would make this "work" for the ZFT, is if they are banking on 1000 fans eating $1000 each just so that they can one day purchase the DVD, or go to a screening of the movie.
I mean it is possible, that some will buy in, lose money for the cause. (Take one for the team, as it were.)
But yeah, I don't have that kind of money to lose.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:35 am 
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This is a complete fucking joke.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:37 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
This is a complete fucking joke.


I was waiting for your opinion. I just cannot fathom how they thought this could work, I was all ready for a subscription service, maybe I should dump Bonny's avatar I use, I want ROXY, but I can't afford it if this is the only way I can get it.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:40 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
This is a complete fucking joke.


As Eric Von Zipper would say in the Beach party movies with Frankie and Annette - " I am with you!"

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:02 am 
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I figure there are probly 1000 people worldwide who will put out the cash for the historical/collectible value of the thing. Not for the business angle. However, if it does fly, be ready to see the album availble for download just about everywhere. I was however hoping for a pre-order job with your name in the booklet ala FZ:OZ thing. Oh well! Thanks anyway ZFT!

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:08 am 
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It really just doesn't make any sense to make this so fucking complicated. JUST RELEASE THE FUCKING THING!! Hundreds of DVDs of vintage concerts and music related movies have been released over the years without all this bullshit. Good examples would be The Rolling Stones "Ladies and Gentlemen... and T. Rex "Born To Boogie"

WTF?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:35 am 
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this is just a major clusterfuck

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:45 am 
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Re: it being a joke : yes.
I propose we all pitch in $10. Someone gathers the $1K. We get the master and put a FLAC download link up online and be done with it.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:47 am 
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PenguinInBondage wrote:
Re: it being a joke : yes.
I propose we all pitch in $10. Someone gathers the $1K. We get the master and put a FLAC download link up online and be done with it.


SHHHHHHHHHHH Penguin, Gail might hear you :shock:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:52 am 
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tweezers wrote:
PenguinInBondage wrote:
Re: it being a joke : yes.
I propose we all pitch in $10. Someone gathers the $1K. We get the master and put a FLAC download link up online and be done with it.


SHHHHHHHHHHH Penguin, Gail might hear you :shock:


Ha - nice! :mrgreen:
I just thought of an extension to that plan too. We don't even need to come up with the $10 a piece. We just do a "kickstarter" campaign and agree that anyone who contributes gets a lossless download.
I can't think of any reason why more than one entity would have to purchase this master. Unite and then everyone shares the profit (the profit being the material, not the $).
This whole thing is a farce. Good God.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:53 am 
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tweezers wrote:
PenguinInBondage wrote:
Re: it being a joke : yes.
I propose we all pitch in $10. Someone gathers the $1K. We get the master and put a FLAC download link up online and be done with it.


SHHHHHHHHHHH Penguin, Gail might hear you :shock:

Y'all want to get to know Gail better, right? Here's your chance to meet with her. In court. When she sues everyone mis-using the licence. Image

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:58 am 
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just plain doug wrote:
Y'all want to get to know Gail better, right? Here's your chance to meet with her. In court. When she sues everyone mis-using the licence. Image


Cute. :mrgreen:
All it takes is one copy to hit the 'net and "owning a license" is useless. If someone wants to send me $1,000 - I'll hand them back $900 of it and then they've only wasted $100 on a useless transaction! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:00 am 
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Is this sniffing around or close to the broad general area of a pyramid scheme? I'm certainly not saying it is one, just asking.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:01 am 
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I can't believe I'm saying this, but where is Gary?
I want to know when he sent his $1000 in and what his plans are for world-wide sales. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:04 am 
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IrishBoris wrote:
Is this sniffing around or close to the broad general area of a pyramid scheme? I'm certainly not saying it is one, just asking.


It is NOT a pyramid, it is a trapezoid - and this is TOTALLY different! :roll: :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:05 am 
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just plain doug wrote:
tweezers wrote:
PenguinInBondage wrote:
Re: it being a joke : yes.
I propose we all pitch in $10. Someone gathers the $1K. We get the master and put a FLAC download link up online and be done with it.


SHHHHHHHHHHH Penguin, Gail might hear you :shock:

Y'all want to get to know Gail better, right? Here's your chance to meet with her. In court. When she sues everyone mis-using the licence. Image


Doug seriously, I was joking. I don't knock her for trying to raise capital, but I think there could have been a better model, where more people participate, at a lower per-person cost. I fully believe the stories about the problems they have with the ROXY tapes, but unless you and Sabbs have excess cash, it will be hard to find enough fanatics to make this idea of hers work. Or maybe I am crazy and this is the new financing gimmick to get out obscure musical product.

BTW Gail won't be suing me, and if she does, I have counsel.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:08 am 
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...and back to the whole "kickstarter" thing. I've seen people raise a ton of $ for stupid crap and get it. So yes, the ZFT should just do one for the movie itself and be done with the "revolutionary" music biz strategy of selling P.S. (which, correct me if I'm wrong, everyone was grabbing just to tide them over until the actual Roxy release anyhow.)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:08 am 
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BillyDaMt wrote:
I can't believe I'm saying this, but where is Gary?
I want to know when he sent his $1000 in and what his plans are for world-wide sales. :mrgreen:


I think kapt.kirk said Gary lurks on Dweezil'a site.

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