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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:35 am 
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WTF? Gail come on? So many better methods to choose from. Tired of it. The fng lack of info and then the many crossword puzzle emails to figure out the message.

Now this. it's not cute, not clever, and just plain fucked up at JayP said.

This is getting so fng old.

What is Joe T thinking on this? He seems to be the most reasonable?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:46 am 
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aalloca wrote:
What is Joe T thinking on this? He seems to be the most reasonable?


Not exactly a fair question because his hands would be somewhat tied, no?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:54 am 
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keep in mind people... this isn't even for the fucking DVD, just a 76min teaser CD.

holy christ they are insane!!

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:55 am 
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Ruz-El wrote:
PenguinInBondage wrote:
just plain doug wrote:
Y'all want to get to know Gail better, right? Here's your chance to meet with her. In court. When she sues everyone mis-using the licence. Image


Cute. :mrgreen:
All it takes is one copy to hit the 'net and "owning a license" is useless. If someone wants to send me $1,000 - I'll hand them back $900 of it and then they've only wasted $100 on a useless transaction! :mrgreen:


And that one copy that hits the net will most likely come from a CD purchased direct from the ZFT and not one of these master discs. Let's face it, it's the age we live in.

If we as fans were interested in being distributors, we'd distribute music.

Here's the thing with kickstarter and indiegogo and crowd fund-raising. I've recently given to a project $125 with the reward being a music download and a T-Shirt. I gave because I want to see the end result happen. It would not be completely crazy for the ZFT to be able to get $250 for an exclusive T-Shirt and CD if they did a kickstarter type project to finish the Roxy film. $5000-$10,000 could get you a listening party in the UMRK. The potential rewards write themselves.

Instead, you pay $1000 to buy a pain in the ass.

So instead of the ZFT getting numerous $100 plus donations for a CD and what not via the kickstarter route, they'll get their usual $15 a disc and who knows how much from the licenses.

If they don't sell all the licenses is the Roxy project scrapped? The tone of the email was of a gun being put to the head of the fan. Support it or we kill the project!


Hello:

Long time Zappa fan, first post here.

I was excited and intrigued yesterday to receive the e mail about Roxy By Proxy and my enthusiasm immediately overtook rational thought.

It all seemed so unprecedented and exciting.

Then, upon clicking a link to the website, the idea took on the characteristics of a Chinese puzzle box with multiple layers. Each layer brings more puzzlement, distress and confusion than enthusiasm, which is the key ingredient for success of this type of project.

First and foremost, the average fan, like myself and possibly you, may not have access to that kind of cash. The winds of this economic climate are not blowing in our favor.

My second initial reaction (as noted by some in this thread) was to consider Kickstarter, but would being a "temporary music distributor of one Frank Zappa Album" even meet the standards for funding, specifically, this one:

Quote:
Funding for projects only.

A project has a clear goal, like making an album, a book, or a work of art. A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced by it. A project is not open-ended. Starting a business, for example, does not qualify as a project.


You would be walking a fine line to not be classified as "starting a business".

Third, and no disrespect intended, but wouldn't Frank think the distribution model was locked into the 1970s?

I listen to music through an audiophile quality USB DAC playing FLAC files either ripped from CD or as Hi Res digital downloads through active studio monitors. And I am an old fart!

I understand the reason for keeping the distribution model and media from 40 years prior, CONTROL over potential bootlegs and P2P file sharing, and the ability to better track sales.

As someone mentioned in a prior post, why not simply fund the Zappa Roxy movie via Kickstarter, and bypass this rather convoluted and complicated scheme?

No disrespect intended, but there is no profit in this, even for the most enthusiastic fan.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:00 pm 
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This time we got the entire track list - no riddles - no double talk.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:04 pm 
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jaypfunk wrote:
keep in mind people... this isn't even for the fucking DVD, just a 76min teaser CD. holy christ they are insane!!


Precisely. This is the "consolation prize" for having to wait yet another year for the DVD (<cough>Bluray</cough>)

Bobby wrote:
This time we got the entire track list - no riddles - no double talk.


Indeed, entire track list and it'll only cost you well over 50x the $! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:15 pm 
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PenguinInBondage wrote:

Precisely. This is the "consolation prize" for having to wait yet another year for the DVD (<cough>Bluray</cough>)



At this point I'll only buy it if it's on bluray.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:19 pm 
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How many people here have bought his so far? :?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:22 pm 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
How many people here have bought his so far? :?


:shock: Seriously? You think someone here jumped on this?
I sincerely doubt it. But stranger things have happened, I suppose.
I don't know 100 Zappa fans personally to ever justify fronting the cash for them to purchase a release from me that is meant as a "teaser" to the official release that is (re-)slated to be released roughly 12 months from now. Not to mention the fact that this will be released by the ZFT momentarily to boot! I might start selling bridges and land in Florida if I eat crow. Seriously.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:23 pm 
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I have 3 or 4 acquainted Post-professionals who would do Avid, or whatever thay do with these digitized footages these days, for, say K 2 - 3. Can't reasonably think of a low-profile archival concert film release eating up a $1.000.000 budget, necessarily.

Plus, in the 10 or 12 years since the infamous trailer, a non-professional could have concocted a reasonable-quality working version, or two.

I'm not going to wonder about lost bass tracks with these people caring for business anymore.
:P


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:40 pm 
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PenguinInBondage wrote:
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
How many people here have bought his so far? :?


:shock: Seriously? You think someone here jumped on this?
I sincerely doubt it. But stranger things have happened, I suppose.
I don't know 100 Zappa fans personally to ever justify fronting the cash for them to purchase a release from me that is meant as a "teaser" to the official release that is (re-)slated to be released roughly 12 months from now. Not to mention the fact that this will be released by the ZFT momentarily to boot! I might start selling bridges and land in Florida if I eat crow. Seriously.


I suppose if they were to allow the purchaser to send off their master to Disc Makers or some other production facility, then it might be possible to sell them at retail stores that still sell CDs. Ebay would be another avenue to sell. For a person willing to cough up the thousand bucks, it probably would be relatively easy to recoup the investment, but the person would have to further invest in duplication. People who would seriously consider this, and would be willing to distribute should expect that the initial thousand bucks is only part of the overhead cost to distribute. Seems like a lot of work just to fill that #96 space.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:53 pm 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
PenguinInBondage wrote:
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
How many people here have bought his so far? :?


:shock: Seriously? You think someone here jumped on this?
I sincerely doubt it. But stranger things have happened, I suppose.
I don't know 100 Zappa fans personally to ever justify fronting the cash for them to purchase a release from me that is meant as a "teaser" to the official release that is (re-)slated to be released roughly 12 months from now. Not to mention the fact that this will be released by the ZFT momentarily to boot! I might start selling bridges and land in Florida if I eat crow. Seriously.


I suppose if they were to allow the purchaser to send off their master to Disc Makers or some other production facility, then it might be possible to sell them at retail stores that still sell CDs. Ebay would be another avenue to sell. For a person willing to cough up the thousand bucks, it probably would be relatively easy to recoup the investment, but the person would have to further invest in duplication. People who would seriously consider this, and would be willing to distribute should expect that the initial thousand bucks is only part of the overhead cost to distribute. Seems like a lot of work just to fill that #96 space.


Used CD duplication equipment can cost thousands more, so doing it at home is kind of a moot point. As someone else pointed out, among a thousand distributors, how do you keep quality consistent in content, packaging, art and liner notes?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:57 pm 
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This idea is just flat out dumb all over.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:13 pm 
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I, for one, am looking forward to the 76 min Roxy CD. Along with the already release material from Roxy, this should be more than sufficient to satisfy my Roxy fix. The complete audio of ALL the Roxy shows would be best, but oh well. I'm really only interested in the music anyway.

Based on what I've seen of the Roxy video, the shooting style was pretty boring and unexceptional, and I can live without the video. Also, if this is the ZFT's way of going about getting funding to make the video/DVD, it will never happen anyway. Let's just move on to other releases ... most importantly, something from the Ponty band!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:19 pm 
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Jeff wrote:
I, for one, am looking forward to the 76 min Roxy CD. Along with the already release material from Roxy, this should be more than sufficient to satisfy my Roxy fix. The complete audio of ALL the Roxy shows would be best, but oh well. I'm really only interested in the music anyway.

Based on what I've seen of the Roxy video, the shooting style was pretty boring and unexceptional, and I can live without the video. Also, if this is the ZFT's way of going about getting funding to make the video/DVD, it will never happen anyway. Let's just move on to other releases ... most importantly, something from the Ponty band!


Jeff, I don't believe anyone here is disputing that they're not interested in the audio on this release. Just not $1,007 interested. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:27 pm 
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PenguinInBondage wrote:
Jeff wrote:
I, for one, am looking forward to the 76 min Roxy CD. Along with the already release material from Roxy, this should be more than sufficient to satisfy my Roxy fix. The complete audio of ALL the Roxy shows would be best, but oh well. I'm really only interested in the music anyway.

Based on what I've seen of the Roxy video, the shooting style was pretty boring and unexceptional, and I can live without the video. Also, if this is the ZFT's way of going about getting funding to make the video/DVD, it will never happen anyway. Let's just move on to other releases ... most importantly, something from the Ponty band!


Jeff, I don't believe anyone here is disputing that they're not interested in the audio on this release. Just not $1,007 interested. :mrgreen:


I have no intention of paying $1,000 for the Master. However, I can still purchase the 76 min Roxy CD itself through Barko-Swill when it is release at the ZFT's normal prices...right??? I hope I'm not mistaken.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:31 pm 
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Jeff wrote:
I have no intention of paying $1,000 for the Master. However, I can still purchase the 76 min Roxy CD itself through Barko-Swill when it is release at the ZFT's normal prices...right??? I hope I'm not mistaken.


That's my understanding (which, IMO, renders the whole point of this "revolutionary" (reads: ridiculous) your-very-own-distribution idea as useless). If you want $ for the video, kickstarter or some such for FZsakes. :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:51 pm 
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I keep hearing "and we are so dumb, they're lining up at our door" in my head.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:08 pm 
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i dont even know 1000 people who would buy just the roxy cd, not to mention put down 1000 for the masters. the vast majority of people are going to download it for free, duh; how dumb do the guys in charge think fz fans are?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:20 pm 
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To whoever at the ZFT decided against Kickstarter and came up with this shitty, greedy, asshat marketing and distribution idea:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:34 pm 
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adverb wrote:
i dont even know 1000 people who would buy just the roxy cd, not to mention put down 1000 for the masters. the vast majority of people are going to download it for free, duh; how dumb do the guys in charge think fz fans are?


Lolly lolly lolly! (I think of that every time I see your user name).

But, I was thinking this: They're might be a lot of fans out there with enough disposable income to buy it as a collector's item. I've read the thing twice and I don't think there's a requirement that you HAVE to distribute it. Pay 1000 dollars for your very own CD Duplication Master with unique ID and the license for a Frank Zappa recording? Plus a few copies of the finished work and liner notes of your own? If I remember right somebody paid more for a tour of the Vault in an auction. Why wouldn't somebody else? I think that will be more of the appeal on spending 1000 dollars on this than the "joy" of distributing the thing. 1000 people seems very possible.

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Last edited by calvin2hikers on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:34 pm 
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THIS TOO IS FUCKED UP!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:43 pm 
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PenguinInBondage wrote:
aalloca wrote:
What is Joe T thinking on this? He seems to be the most reasonable?


Not exactly a fair question because his hands would be somewhat tied, no?


Yes. Not his call, AFAIK.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:07 pm 
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I'm sure it's NOT, but before I consider getting involved with this, could somebody tell me if this is similar to a multi-level marketing idea? I'm not smart enough to work it out!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multilevel_marketing


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:12 pm 
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It's something like this: Image

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