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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:03 am 
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Wow, a Zappa CD I can actually order on the internet at a reasonable price without it having to come from the US. For the first time in ... ever!


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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:10 am 
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ChrisPaul wrote:
Wow, a Zappa CD I can actually order on the internet at a reasonable price without it having to come from the US. For the first time in ... ever!

I don't know where you have been all the time and where you live, but the last time I had to order something from the US or from Barfko Swill was more than 10 years ago.

Th.

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:26 am 
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Thinman wrote:
Hah, Pumped & Waxed: I yelled out "SUN RA!", then listened to the sample again -- cool! 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:46 am 
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There wasn't one vault release that made me feel too enthusiatic so far. Because there wasn't one thing among them that Frank hadn't achieved already better in his lifetime. Pumped & Waxed seems to be an exception.

Th.

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:00 pm 
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Thanks for the link to the samples! I'm not familiar with most of the music on Finer Moments so it'll be like hearing a brand new Zappa album for the first time! Hell yeah!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:45 pm 
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Thinman wrote:
There wasn't one vault release that made me feel too enthusiatic so far. Because there wasn't one thing among them that Frank hadn't achieved already better in his lifetime. Pumped & Waxed seems to be an exception.

A random selection of moments that you aren't too enthusiastic about -- the entire EIHN album, Approximate (Wazoo), Pound for a Brown, King Kong, Watermelon (Prequel) from HO, the sick guitar tone at the beginnining of the solo of City of Tiny Lites (Buffalo) and totally mindblowing guitar playing throughout the album, How Did That Get In There? (Lumpy Money), Feeding the Monkies at Ma Maison. Even when I leave out One Shot Deal, Imaginary Diseases and QuAUDIOPHILIAc, because they were mostly produced by FZ (like Pumped & Waxed btw) the threshold for your enthusiasm seems impossibly high to this Zappa fan!

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:11 pm 
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DC Boogie wrote:
Thinman wrote:
There wasn't one vault release that made me feel too enthusiatic so far. Because there wasn't one thing among them that Frank hadn't achieved already better in his lifetime. Pumped & Waxed seems to be an exception.

A random selection of moments that you aren't too enthusiastic about -- the entire EIHN album, Approximate (Wazoo), Pound for a Brown, King Kong, Watermelon (Prequel) from HO, the sick guitar tone at the beginnining of the solo of City of Tiny Lites (Buffalo) and totally mindblowing guitar playing throughout the album, How Did That Get In There? (Lumpy Money), Feeding the Monkies at Ma Maison. Even when I leave out One Shot Deal, Imaginary Diseases and QuAUDIOPHILIAc, because they were mostly produced by FZ (like Pumped & Waxed btw) the threshold for your enthusiasm seems impossibly high to this Zappa fan!

The threshold for my enthusiasm is indeed possibly high to me as a Zappa fan! And Frank was right when he dicided not to release most of the stuff from your list himself.

Th.

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:52 pm 
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Thinman wrote:
Frank was right when he d[e]cided not to release most of the stuff from your list himself.

This may be true from a number of angles and considerations, not least career building and economical concerns. But what Zappa fan could deny that Buffalo shows that Zappa had material for a far more interesting live record in 1981 than Tinsel-Town Rebellion? And don't the bits and pieces from Royce Hall indicate that he could have gone all the way and created a Yellow Shark type of crossover classic already in the late Seventies instead of the lean Orchestral Favorites, which noone cared much for in 1979? And what kind of argument concerning Vault releases NOW is it that Frank's decision not to release the material THEN was wise? You can accuse the ZFT of many strange thing, but you can't possibly blame them for the fact that what THEY have to release is not what FRANK decided to release. Because then it would of course already have been released... I am one of those people who enjoy the manifold manifestations of FZ's creativity, even when they're not perfectly crafted artifacts, and again I just can't understand how anyone who's sympathetic to Zappa's art could be unmoved by many of those pieces that I mentioned above. But if that's your way of appreciating Zappa, you're welcome.

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:51 pm 
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What was supposed to be the end of side one ends with a record scratch after which FZ announces that the fake record scratch indicates the end of side one and now you have to turn the record over...cool.

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:52 pm 
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Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
Never thought I'd be saying I know too much before the damn thing arrives.

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:45 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
Never thought I'd be saying I know too much before the damn thing arrives.

Shut up and play that sax! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:07 pm 
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DC Boogie wrote:
… And don't the bits and pieces from Royce Hall indicate that he could have gone all the way and created a Yellow Shark type of crossover classic already in the late Seventies instead of the lean Orchestral Favorites, which noone cared much for in 1979? …

A good example of different tastes and opinions which make it difficult to discuss such things. I think Orchestral Favorites/Royce Hall concerts are much better than the Yellow Shark. Much much better. And I was there at two of the YS concerts (one with Frank present), btw.

Thinman

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:11 am 
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Thinman wrote:
DC Boogie wrote:
… And don't the bits and pieces from Royce Hall indicate that he could have gone all the way and created a Yellow Shark type of crossover classic already in the late Seventies instead of the lean Orchestral Favorites, which noone cared much for in 1979? …

A good example of different tastes and opinions which make it difficult to discuss such things. I think Orchestral Favorites/Royce Hall concerts are much better than the Yellow Shark. Much much better. And I was there at two of the YS concerts (one with Frank present), btw.

I love Orchestral Favorites, and that's why I think it's too lean/short. It's a fact that noone cared much for it in 1979, when it appeared between Sheik Yerbouti and Joe's Garage. This has nothing to do with my appreciation for it, which is not unlike yours. But by your twisted logic you should not want any more from the Royce Hall concerts, because Frank deemed the material unworthy of release in his lifetime? How about How Did That Get In There? I think it's a wonderful track - and listened to it again yesterday - but for you it's another piece of leftover debris ("müll") from Frank's garbage can?

And what's this with the selective quoting? Why can't you merely answer simple questions like the one I asked you about Buffalo vs. Tinsel-Town Rebellion? Is it not clear to anyone with a minimum of taste and discrimination that Frank had large amounts of live material in 1981 that could have made an infinitely superior album to the weak TTR, and is this not made perfectly clear by Buffalo, no matter what you might feel about the work of the sound engineers on that material i 2006/7? Answer that with "no I think FZ made a perfect album for the time with TTR and I don't want to hear any more live stuff from that era" - and I won't ever have to discuss with you again, because it would be futile with such opposite views.

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Last edited by DC Boogie on Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:42 am 
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DC Boogie wrote:
… But by your twisted logic you should not want any more from the Royce Hall concerts, …

I don't speak for others. Anybody can want what they want to. I personally don't need any more stuff from that concerts. Frank already made a good selection (he was good at that). And it is part of the art to make selections and leave other things out. It is no good idea to put every color into a painting just because you have them. They may be all nice colors but you have to make decisions.

Other than that, after having followed Frank in real time from 1975 on, after his death (almost) 20 years ago, for me automatically a process of distilling the essence out of his legacy began. Naturally, with distilling, things evaporate and disappear. Other things remain solid and even become more solid than before.

Over the time I developed a critical distance to his work, which makes it possible for me to enjoy the (for me) "important" things even more and sort out other things that are not so important IMO.

As I said, I think Frank's decisions to sort out certain things in his lifetime and not release them, were right. Not because the things would be bad, but because they were "unnecessary colors" for the "picture" he was "painting" at that moment (the album). I don't need to see the colors he didn't use when there is a finished painting.

Now call me twisted.

Thinman

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:53 am 
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Thinman wrote:
Now call me twisted.

I will. Or FZ-produced-and-issued-in-his-sadly-too-short-lifetime fetishist. Now I'll go back and listen to Octandre, which the ZFT released recently, unfortunately.

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:01 am 
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DC Boogie wrote:
… FZ-produced-and-issued-in-his-sadly-too-short-lifetime fetishist. …

Now, he was the artist, or not? He lived and worked in a period between 1940 and 1993. He is not responsible for anything that happened afterwards, naturally.

Th.

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:50 am 
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Thinman wrote:
DC Boogie wrote:
… FZ-produced-and-issued-in-his-sadly-too-short-lifetime fetishist. …

Now, he was the artist, or not? He lived and worked in a period between 1940 and 1993. He is not responsible for anything that happened afterwards, naturally.

When asked about how he wanted to be remembered, Zappa said that he didn't care at all. I think the difference between us rather boils down to a different appreciation of Zappa as a recorded performer. I don't need an FZ concept devised by the artist to enjoy that aspect. From GTR Trio to TTNS (Buffalo) and beyond - there's so much that is amazing to me and enhances the quality of my life. One example - in October 1978 Frank brought along a soundboard cassette of the Persona Non Grata opening guitar solo from a recent concert to a radio interview. When the interviewer asked him if he was going to release it, Frank said something like "nah, that's just something we do to warm up." No matter what Zappa felt about releasing it, for me that solo is pure gold, and I would love to hear it on a record. It's a recorded snapshot of the performing artist (also responsible for his art), who was to my mind just as great as the scrupulous editor and record manufacturer. Unlike you, I crave more from that artist of the moment. Zappa's discography is getting more expansive with the live recordings and other material. It's a vast landscape, and I feel it's just getting more and more interesting as it expands.

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:07 am 
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I think our approaches are too different and incompatible :-(. "You'll do your's and I'll do mine."

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:12 am 
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Thinman wrote:
DC Boogie wrote:
… FZ-produced-and-issued-in-his-sadly-too-short-lifetime fetishist. …

Now, he was the artist, or not? He lived and worked in a period between 1940 and 1993. He is not responsible for anything that happened afterwards, naturally.

Th.

I am the the thin man,I am alone! I am Yoko,She is legion.

I mean no insult,I'm am here to observe. {-

I like a good Frank Zappa composition,anyway I can get it.I mean really,I freakin' dance and feel real joy,hearing FZ's underrated music and your not helping! Yes,that's right,we know your a prick about sound as well as you should be.But if there was no sound,no FrankZappa.Are you trying to hold them,JT and the ZFT, to standards we can't,(Not even the zappas) understand?

Or do you just like Frank Zappa's music? Th.?
The fun in Frank's music is that there is something he wrote for anyone who want's a song about them.And everyone who didn't too!
It's in the mind of the imaginer.......{-

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Last edited by KAPT.KIIRK on Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:13 am 
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Thinman wrote:
I think our approaches are too different and incompatible :-(. "You'll do your's and I'll do mine."

+ 1 but 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:25 am 
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KAPT.KIIRK wrote:
Thinman wrote:
DC Boogie wrote:
… FZ-produced-and-issued-in-his-sadly-too-short-lifetime fetishist. …

Now, he was the artist, or not? He lived and worked in a period between 1940 and 1993. He is not responsible for anything that happened afterwards, naturally.

Th.

I am the the thin man,I am alone! I am Yoko,She is legion.

I mean no insult,I'm am here to observe. {-

I like a good Frank Zappa composition,anyway I can get it.I mean really,I freakin' dance and feel real joy,hearing FZ's underrated music and your not helping! Yes,that's right,we know your a prick about sound as well as you should be.But if there was no sound,no FrankZappa.Are you trying to hold them,JT and the ZFT, to standards we can't,(Not even the zappas) understand?

Or do you just like Frank Zappa's music? Th.?
The fun in Frank's music is that there is something he wrote for anyone who want's a song about them.And everyone who didn't too!
It's in the mind of the imaginer.......{-


Are you suddenly cleon's relative :?

Th.

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:26 am 
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Thinman wrote:
Are you suddenly cleon's relative :?
Then better beware of him, because intra-familial reproduction has a long fruitful tradition in his genealogy. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:07 am 
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Can't wait to get my paws on this one.
All the info has made this even more exciting.

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:38 am 
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I had totally forgotten about Universal Music's german website: http://www.universal-music.de/frank-zappa/home

Th.

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 Post subject: Re: Finer Moments
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:36 am 
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Thinman wrote:
Yeah, got it -- They assume the material on the first 2 CDs to be the entire 4 LPs, and erroneously declare Filthy thru Greggery as 4 bonus tracks. How much non - /misinformation can you handle? 8)


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