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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:12 pm 
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DC Boogie wrote:
Check out these discussions if you're interested in Zappa's scored compositions ("serious music") --

http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=23695

http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=27563

Seriously, those are very serious conversations and more fitting than a "best of serious" thread when discussing FZ's compositions, imho. Classic...al, DCB. :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:30 pm 
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Scored = Serious

Got it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:25 am 
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The skin on a leg of pork should be scored and salted before roasting if you want to produce some serious crackling.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:53 am 
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polydigm wrote:
The skin on a leg of pork should be scored and salted before roasting if you want to produce some serious crackling.

Does that apply to A Pig With Wings?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:21 am 
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DC Boogie wrote:
polydigm wrote:
The skin on a leg of pork should be scored and salted before roasting if you want to produce some serious crackling.

Does that apply to A Pig With Wings?


Only if he was running with the Dogs, and flew over the Sheep.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:22 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Scored = Serious

Got it.

So does that mean Jumbo Go Away and Wet T-Shirt Nite are half serious?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:13 pm 
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While both praisin' and dissin' Ensemble Modern's Greggery Peccary & Other Persuasions, I want to point out the best reward for getting though this album is the hidden track of "Does This Life Look Interesting To You?" I think this is the best track on the CD, showing the most "eyebrows" and not just a clone of the original track.

Play nice.

J


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:22 pm 
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Other possibilities for threads with the same CC;

Album with Zappa's best seriously serious songs on it.

Album with Zappa's bestest pop songs on it

Album with Zappa's bester humor in songs in it

Album with Zappa's the most moistest noises on songs on it

Album with Zappa saying the 7 words you can't say on TV on songs on it (ML'71 one of my fav entries*)

Album with Zappa's most jazziest jazz sounding songs on it

Album with Zappa's most Kazoo & motorcycle sounds on the songs on it

Album/media with Zappa's mustache on it more than any other album CD or DVD release> packaging only

...and the list goes on. Are we redundant yet? :| :lol:






*Also known as the white album :wink: :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:44 pm 
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"If I ever find myself playing something perfectly, I know I'm not working hard enough" - Herbie Hancock


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:27 am 
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I didn't read every post in the thread, but I never saw a vote for 200 Motels. I suppose it doesn't completely qualify as 'serious music' as there is no lack of comedy rock on the album. I have always enjoyed the range I suppose......from classical to opera or at least near opera, to comedy and on to rock and roll with Magic Fingers and Mystery Roach. I've put Jazz from Hell on the CD player several times and I still can't listen to it. Just rubs me the wrong way for some reason.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:33 pm 
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vinylfan wrote:
I've put Jazz from Hell on the CD player several times and I still can't listen to it. Just rubs me the wrong way for some reason.

Those early synclaviers don't have a very nice sound. I'd love to hear Night School performed by Zappa on guitar with electric bass, keys, drums, percussion and maybe some brass/woodwinds/strings. With Zappa's guitar at the forefront.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:25 pm 
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I agree, 200 Motels features some great orchestral music. Bogus Pomp from Orchestral Favorites is another spectacular work.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:59 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
I'd love to hear Night School performed (by Zappa) on guitar

You wish come true (okay, not by FZ and with not a live band behind):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqz7C5QxFsU

:-) Tyler Bartram - check out his amazing work!

You might know Ed Palermos extremely wonderful version: he (and his mates) adds some improvisation to the original melody, leaves it and returns to it, changing the rhythm on the back - just great!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:57 pm 
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Star Thrower wrote:
I agree, 200 Motels features some great orchestral music. Bogus Pomp from Orchestral Favorites is another spectacular work.


Bogus Pomp, Regyption Strut and Dog Breath are my favorite 'serious' Zappa songs.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:00 am 
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balint wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
I'd love to hear Night School performed (by Zappa) on guitar

You wish come true (okay, not by FZ and with not a live band behind):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqz7C5QxFsU

:-) Tyler Bartram - check out his amazing work!

You might know Ed Palermos extremely wonderful version: he (and his mates) adds some improvisation to the original melody, leaves it and returns to it, changing the rhythm on the back - just great!


i never liked that song too much, but after hearing this, I changed my mind


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:31 pm 
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balint wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
I'd love to hear Night School performed (by Zappa) on guitar

You wish come true (okay, not by FZ and with not a live band behind):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqz7C5QxFsU

:-) Tyler Bartram - check out his amazing work!



Thanks, man.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:13 pm 
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civilization phaze iii

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:02 pm 
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It kind of depending on what you consider "serious" music - seriously good guitar or serious modern music.

I'd recommend you listen thru Burnt Weeny Sandwich from like 1969 to get started.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:32 pm 
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Wow, I went off a bit in this thread. My main fault is lack of patience. I tend to shoot from the hip.

My experience with ensemble modern is that they are primarily good musicians. And by that, of course I I do include the ability to play accurately, but there has to be feel as well and you don't get to that level by just playing accurately. I didn't just spend a long time listening to Yellow Shark to come to that conclusion, there were also plenty of videos out there showing FZ interacting with EM and interviews with him explaining how he felt about working with them. My feelings about that album have little to do with any kind of academic analysis.

Then along came Greggery Peccary & Other Persuasions. Some of it did sound a bit cheesy at first, but surely most people here get that you don't get albums that stand the test of time straight away. They grow on you as their richness becomes more apparent with repeated listenings. Most of FZ's albums grew on me. There were even a few that I didn't like much at all on the first listen.

Lets not forget that FZ himself was driven to spend a lot of time with the Synclavier in his obsession with accuracy and some of that stuff is just too clinical for me to this day. Hearing Night School and A Pig With Wings played by humans was a treat and even though there are other human played versions of Naval Aviation in Art out there, EM's version is my favourite. Later on, listening to EIHN just added to the connection I have with EM's playing.

Perception involves a lot of filling in. Like how our vision works. You can't see every detail instantaneously and the brain does a lot of filling in. I was viewing a painting in an art gallery the other day and the subject had an empty glass jar in front of him on a table. Up close all you see is a few wispy brush strokes and the effect doesn't look like glass at all. Three metres away from the painting it doesn't just look like a glass jar - you're not thinking "Hmm, that looks like a glass jar" - it is a glass jar. From that distance I tried overriding what my brain was doing, to see the paint strokes, but I just couldn't. It's a very powerful process.

The process of hearing does similar things. Maybe with Greggery Peccary & Other Persuasions I'm filling in the gaps, I don't know, I don't care. I like it a lot. I shouldn't have gone off at anyone about not liking it. Ultimately I would't care if I was the only one on the planet who liked it. In contrast, I don't listen to many audience tapes, I just can't get over the poor quality of sound in most cases, so there the filling in thing is just not enough to compensate.

I'm not sure why I got so touchy about this before.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:33 am 
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polydigm wrote:
Lets not forget that FZ himself was driven to spend a lot of time with the Synclavier in his obsession with accuracy and some of that stuff is just too clinical for me to this day.

I think Frank developed his work with the Synclavier over the years when in the end he started to abandon the idea of it being a kind of replacement for a human ensemble. With things like Wolf Harbor he finally arrived at being serious about computer music. Had he lived longer, things would have gotten more abstract and the idea of serious music having to be scored, playable by humans and immitating real instruments would have disappeared from his thinking and he would have freed himself from any conservative restrictions.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:08 am 
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Thinman wrote:
polydigm wrote:
Lets not forget that FZ himself was driven to spend a lot of time with the Synclavier in his obsession with accuracy and some of that stuff is just too clinical for me to this day.
Had he lived longer, things would have gotten more abstract and the idea of serious music having to be scored, playable by humans and immitating real instruments would have disappeared from his thinking and he would have freed himself from any conservative restrictions.
Here I go shooting from the hip again. Your location says Earth - are you sure about that? For me music is fundamentally a human, participatory thing. People getting together, letting their hair down, shaking their booty, whatever phrases you want to use to describe it and let's not forget exchanging ideas. I seriously doubt that FZ would have completely disappeared inside his own head, because that's what you're describing. When FZ was alive, other than the purely technical aspects of the complexity of his music, I found it vital and connected to the present world I was living in. When he had a band and was bouncing ideas off them he remained connected with the world. If he got rid of people all together and just disappeared into the twilight realm of his own secret thoughts and created music in isolation it's not conservative restrictions that he would have freed himself from but reality itself.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:21 am 
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That would mean you simply don't like the idea of computer music. In your world only "real" music would have the right to exist. In your view Frank's Synclavier work would only serve as sort of high class demos for some imaginary "real" music.

I would say that is an extraordinary conservative approach.

What about multitracking, overdubbing, editing and other forms of studio methods and constructions in your world? Studio work creates illusions all the time.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:02 am 
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That's not what I said, or implied, at all. I like some of his Synclavier music. The way you described it he would have ended up removing himself from music played by humans entirely. That's an extreme. I was not proposing the opposite extreme, just objecting to an image of an isolated composer creating music entirely with machines.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:36 am 
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polydigm wrote:
That's not what I said, or implied, at all. I like some of his Synclavier music. The way you described it he would have ended up removing himself from music played by humans entirely. That's an extreme. I was not proposing the opposite extreme, just objecting to an image of an isolated composer creating music entirely with machines.

A composer (or just a "creator" of music, because "composing" with a machine can result in the finished audio sculpture on the spot) can choose whatever method is available to him to make his idea become reality in the world outside of his head. Choosing a machine like the Synclavier is just one way, equal to other possibilities or a mixture of possibilties. It is not an extreme IMO.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:58 am 
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music is only as serious as you take it.

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