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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:32 am 
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adverb wrote:
I wouldn't mind hearing a professionally recorded live King Kong with Bob Harris, does this exist? Outside the Yoko jam, I mean.


I don't know. The show from which "Ye Olde Curiosity Shoppe" was excerpted probably did not have "KK" in the setlist.

Of course the only other variant is the Fillmore East recording that gave us "Lonesome Electric Turkey".

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:48 am 
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There are circulating recordings of the next two shows after the Chicago "Curiosity Shoppe" date and these do have both BTM and KK in the set.


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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:59 am 
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But more interesting is that there are no circulating recordings between the Fillmore East and JABFLA shows, two months and a lineup shuffle apart. Other than the unplugged appearance at a Canadian radio show in July. On the Jon Naurin gig list there are a number of shows in Canada, plus of course a Boston gig late June. This clearly makes the Bob Harris '71 tour one of Zappa's least documented tours, if only because it has about as few recordings as the Grand Wazoo band (or less), but not as short-lived. The next notable gap would be the 1.5 month absence of circulated recordings between March 11 and April 27 on the '73 JLP tour. After that, many gigs on the tours would be documented, without much in the way of gaps. By 1988 each and every show must've had a guy to record an audience tape or a soundboard leaking out.

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:42 pm 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
The next notable gap would be the 1.5 month absence of circulated recordings between March 11 and April 27 on the '73 JLP tour.

Well, we know for sure that the ZFT has San Diego 3-24-73 in the vault, since they used FZ's "Imaginary Diseases" rap from that show on the website for the Imaginary Diseases CD. That one is my holy grail of Zappa recordings--the best FZ concert I ever attended.


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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 12:43 pm 
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However, the 5/22/1971 gig would make a pretty good archival release. Not only for King Kong, but also for "Twenty Small Cigars", which distinguishes itself by an absolutely blistering Underwood soprano* sax solo!

*yes, a soprano. It's common knowledge that Ian played alto sax, but he could play several saxophones, tenor, baritone and even a soprano. The most notable studio recording with Ian playing the soprano is probably "Peaches En Regalia", the harmony saxes at the early part seem to be two sopranos. Also, "Little Umbrellas"' main theme is on soprano. Ian is also credited with soprano on the Nosferatu album by Hugh Cornwell and Robert Williams (ex-Beefheart), on the track "Wired". While Ian mainly played alto for the Spring '73 tour, the 2-24 show at Durham also seems to feature a soprano. It's notable on a long improvised track as well as an early version of "Don't You Ever Wash That Thing".

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 1:03 pm 
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Fuck! I think I may be mistaken about the "Curiosity Shoppe" gig.

I'm listening to the crappy sounding 5/21/71 gig now. It doesn't sound like the BTM solos section matches up to the "Curiosity Shoppe".

It appears that there were two shows on that date. And the "Curiosity Shoppe" must be excerpted from the gig that has not been circulating. So KK may be on that one.

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:38 pm 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
But more interesting is that there are no circulating recordings between the Fillmore East and JABFLA shows, two months and a lineup shuffle apart.By 1988 each and every show must've had a guy to record an audience tape or a soundboard leaking out.


Damn, I was just about to look for a boot of the Filmore show. I wish the ZFT would release the full show from the Filmore. I noticed the Waka Jawiki doesn't have a setlist or poster.

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 5:31 am 
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The Fillmore was four shows (two shows per night June 5 and 6, 1971). An archival release would of course be nice although as with all of the analog live tapes FZ used, it is possible he cut up and discarded parts of it.


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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 8:23 am 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
However, the 5/22/1971 gig would make a pretty good archival release. Not only for King Kong, but also for "Twenty Small Cigars", which distinguishes itself by an absolutely blistering Underwood soprano* sax solo!

The 5/22 show is good, Franks solo in Billy the Mountain is absolutely awesome. King Kong also gets pretty funky halfway through. I just wish the sound quality was better.


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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 3:51 pm 
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pbuzby wrote:
The Fillmore was four shows (two shows per night June 5 and 6, 1971). An archival release would of course be nice although as with all of the analog live tapes FZ used, it is possible he cut up and discarded parts of it.



Seriously, I would be just excited for a Filmore archival release as I would for the Roxy tapes.

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 12:24 am 
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If there was any one time I wish I could step back in time to attend a couple of shows on an earlier Zappa tour, it would be the Fillmore East 11/13-14/1970 shows. I'm rediscovering the awesomeness of the line-up from the Tengo Ná Minchia Tanta and Freaks And Motherfu#@%! BTB CDs.

The one and only time Frank Zappa ever actually played my hometown was 5 days after these two dates at Fountain Street Church on 11/19/1970. I missed the 2 shows from that date as I was only 3 years old at the time, and from the reports by people I know who were in attendance, sounds like they were absolutely killing it at the time.

One of the attendee's I do personally know know actually inquired Joe Travers about whether the early/late shows from 11/19/1970 are in the vault, and he said they are not. According to a Facebook conversation, a local DJ said that somebody he knew had allegedly recorded the gig on a reel to reel independantly (?sound crew member or venue employee?) and said they sounded great (he didn't say whether they were board or audience recordings), but the tapes have since, never surfaced or circulated. It's a possibility that someone, somewhere in my hometown has been sitting on the masters from 11/19/1970 for all of these years, but never put them out d/or made copies for anybody. If there is someway, somehow with some digging, twisting of a few arms and perhaps bribing if necessary, and if the tapes from that date have actually survived all of this time over the last 40 years and are intact, I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in them, myself included.

When I have some time to dig back into that Facebook conversation thats buried from a couple of years back, I'll post and /or forward it in hopes of connecting the right people with who might be able to track them down. I'd love to be the one to facilitate and have the bragging rights of the discovery/rediscovery of these allegedly long lost, uncirculated recordings that aren't even in the Zappa vault, if they do indeed exist, and have survived all of this time and are intact.

It could all just be bullshit, but the DJ was pretty descriptive about them being played at a Fountain Street Church after party that Frank Zappa himself supposedly attended, involving groupies and what not. My only real ties with the local DJ are having talked to him a number of times over the years, but am more of an aquantance of an aquantance situation. When I dig up that Facebook conversation, I'll put the bug out a bit more.


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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 7:01 am 
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My_Name_Is_Fritz wrote:
1970-11-19 Fountain Street Church, Grand Rapids

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I saw Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention for the first time in
1970. He played at the Fountain Street Church in Grand Rapids,
Michigan -- a presentation of the church's youth group. It was likely
their last presentation, too. According to a friend of my mother's
who attended the church, the congregation was scandalized when word
got out that Zappa performed a piece called "Penis Dimension." After
the show I snuck backstage and observed bandmember Howard Kaylan
talking to two groupies. Or maybe they were just two starstruck
church girls. I sidled up to Zappa and, quoting a snatch of
conversation on an early Mothers album, I said "My hair's getting
good in back, isn't it?" He chuckled. Four years later I saw the band
again at Michigan State University.

words taken from http://www.joeyharrison.com

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 12:16 pm 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
If there was any one time I wish I could step back in time to attend a couple of shows on an earlier Zappa tour, it would be the Fillmore East 11/13-14/1970 shows. I'm rediscovering the awesomeness of the line-up from the Tengo Ná Minchia Tanta and Freaks And Motherfu#@%! BTB CDs.

The one and only time Frank Zappa ever actually played my hometown was 5 days after these two dates at Fountain Street Church on 11/19/1970. I missed the 2 shows from that date as I was only 3 years old at the time, and from the reports by people I know who were in attendance, sounds like they were absolutely killing it at the time.

One of the attendee's I do personally know know actually inquired Joe Travers about whether the early/late shows from 11/19/1970 are in the vault, and he said they are not. According to a Facebook conversation, a local DJ said that somebody he knew had allegedly recorded the gig on a reel to reel independantly (?sound crew member or venue employee?) and said they sounded great (he didn't say whether they were board or audience recordings), but the tapes have since, never surfaced or circulated. It's a possibility that someone, somewhere in my hometown has been sitting on the masters from 11/19/1970 for all of these years, but never put them out d/or made copies for anybody. If there is someway, somehow with some digging, twisting of a few arms and perhaps bribing if necessary, and if the tapes from that date have actually survived all of this time over the last 40 years and are intact, I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in them, myself included.

When I have some time to dig back into that Facebook conversation thats buried from a couple of years back, I'll post and /or forward it in hopes of connecting the right people with who might be able to track them down. I'd love to be the one to facilitate and have the bragging rights of the discovery/rediscovery of these allegedly long lost, uncirculated recordings that aren't even in the Zappa vault, if they do indeed exist, and have survived all of this time and are intact.

It could all just be bullshit, but the DJ was pretty descriptive about them being played at a Fountain Street Church after party that Frank Zappa himself supposedly attended, involving groupies and what not. My only real ties with the local DJ are having talked to him a number of times over the years, but am more of an aquantance of an aquantance situation. When I dig up that Facebook conversation, I'll put the bug out a bit more.



Someone needs to ask Joe about the shows from the 13th/14th are there!

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:10 am 
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I really haven't heard much from this era at all. I know the music of the original line-up but not much with F&E.
What I do know is they divide fans in a sense.
So what was so controversial about the pair? Was it the shows they put on or the singing style?

I really need to dive in to that stuff. Heard plenty of Zappa from '66 to '70 (weasels and BWS) and then from '73 onwards.

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:37 am 
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NP:

The critical opinion on the Volman/Kaylan set of Mothers was divided from the outset. Some reviewers considered that version of MOI groovier than original Mothers, whereas the others thought it was a terrible disappointment compared to the weirdness of the old MOI. And I think it does sum it up: the musicianship, drumming wise and keyboarding wise was a step up from the raw and tentative original lineup. However, it was definitely a bit more pop and rock oriented approach, things like electric woodwind chamber music, neo-classical piano-drum dueting and most of freeform improv was all out of the window. Plus, Flo & Eddie Mothers was Zappa's first band to heavily feature the kind of bawdy and slapstick humour that would in time come to define Zappa's lyrical style. "Fillmore East, June 1971" was in many ways a shape of things to come, when it came to "Over-Nite Sensation", "Sheik Yerbouti" and other albums like that.

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:24 am 
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I was at the Fillmore concert ,the leach and eddy were great,lots of parody and goofing around, Frank would babble between songs, one story stands out, apparently he recently had oral sex with a groupie and she had used a feminine deodorant hygiene product, and frank did not like it, he called it pristine twat mist and carried on and got great laughs. While it was a fun show , it is not my favorite, GW, hot rats, are more my favs.

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:38 am 
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They are a pair of Chumps time changed it Imho Even Lennon was bawdy and slapstick humor than previous,Frank getting pushed of stage changed his lyrical style you can here him have fun with his voice on all releases after 1971 :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:42 pm 
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Still need to get some F&E stuff. I'll start with CR and then JABFLA. From what I have seen though, they are hilarious.

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:13 pm 
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NuclearProstate wrote:
Still need to get some F&E stuff. I'll start with CR and then JABFLA. From what I have seen though, they are hilarious.


I recommend getting the albums in this order:

Chunga's Revenge
Fillmore East: June 1971
Just Another Band From L.A.
Playground Psychotics
200 Motels
Carnegie Hall

Also, The Stage series has a lot of F&E stuff, particularly Vol. 1

Am I the only one who thinks JABFLA would be a better album if BTM closed the album instead of opening it?

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:24 pm 
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Am I the only one who thinks JABFLA would be a better album if BTM appeared in it's complete/unedited form? Solos and all?

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:11 pm 
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I always loved them too, when I was a high school kid they seemed adventurous (I was 17 in '71) and they were funny. The 200 Motels I first owned was on 8-track, then I bought the LP. CH once again made me appreciate them with that MUCH more developed Billy the Mt.

I will confess I don"t much go for the Sanzini Bros., but I can stand it sometimes. I also love Holiday in Berlin with lyrics

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