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 Post subject: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:35 pm 
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I fucking love Flo & Eddie. I understand why people don't like the Flo & Eddie years in comparison to the early Mothers or Roxy-era but something about Chunga's Revenge, Filmore, and Just Another Band from L.A. gets me going. I think it might be the fact that they make me laugh harder than any of Frank's other works.

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:10 pm 
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No reason to feel guilty. I know some people don't like that era as much but I like it just fine. Love Billy the Mountain - one of my greatest listening experiences. It also seemed like Frank was having a real good time - until he got pushed off that stage in London.


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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:03 am 
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I love this era. I know that's a huge statement as it cover loads of different material but broadly speaking I love it all.
The only bit I find jarring is the high pitched vocal noise that Flo and Eddie make on Billy the Mountain (from JABFLA) in between each of the Californian cities that is read out. That's just annoying........ :| :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:19 am 
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I certainly wish I could like this band better. They certainly had improved by the Fall 1971 European tour with Don Preston taking over the 2nd keyboard slot previously filled by George Duke and Bob Harris #1 (as opposed to the #2 from 1980 band). Part of me however is still disappointed that Ian played very little sax with the band. Much like years later, Eddie Jobson would play only one violin solo per night in "Black Napkins", leaving the band mostly centred on guitars, keyboards, bass and drums only.

My favourite album from that epoch is "200 Motels" soundtrack, much for the same reasons as I'd rather listen to ZINY or Palladium shows than the five piece Jobson band proper. More orchestration and instruments, not just guitar, keys, bass and drums.

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:30 am 
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Some of FZ's best guitar playing until 1976 or so, thanks partly to Aynsley's drum support. Just wish he played more often.


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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:50 am 
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It certainly does seem FZ changed his guitar playing approach after the dissolution of the 1971 Mothers. Already the guitar playing on "Big Swifty" is so different from the earlier solos that were more steeped in pentatonic blues approach. It's like in 1972 he started to use different guitar pedals and also tried to steer away from obvious blues-isms. Though of course, the Waka/Wazoo guitar sound is also different due to FZ being in a wheelchair. Strange how both of these albums feature a lot of the WOIIFTM/Burnt Weeny type of pseudo-acoustic guitar sound (read: envelope filters that are set out to make the electric sound like an acoustic), that after that resurfaced only sporadically ("Stink-Foot", "IPNTCIYM" aka "Lather").

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:09 am 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
… Much like years later, Eddie Jobson would play only one violin solo per night in "Black Napkins", leaving the band mostly centred on guitars, keyboards, bass and drums only.

… I'd rather listen to ZINY or Palladium shows than the five piece Jobson band proper. …

Like I said: http://www.zappa.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7804&start=1400#p581711

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:19 am 
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For me the 200Motels movie is one of FZs greatest works. It contains lots of his facets: so called serious music, rock n roll, humor, social comment, conceptional continuity, multi layered weirdness ... Without any doubt Flo and Eddy belong to the more important ingredients of this masterpiece. I always wonder how rarely 200M is discussed in this forum. But obviously it is more fundamental to discuss what legend trendmonger is...

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:33 am 
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200 Motels is probably my favorite all around release of Zappa's and I especially love Flo and Eddie's part in it, though I love it all. However, I don't care for hardly anything else they did with him that has been officially released.

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:45 am 
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pbuzby wrote:
Some of FZ's best guitar playing until 1976 or so, thanks partly to Aynsley's drum support. Just wish he played more often.
I cant think now who FZ said was is last Drum and Bass players suited his playing?

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:52 am 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
It's like in 1972 he started to use different guitar pedals and also tried to steer away from obvious blues-isms. Though of course, the Waka/Wazoo guitar sound is also different due to FZ being in a wheelchair. Strange how both of these albums feature a lot of the WOIIFTM/Burnt Weeny type of pseudo-acoustic guitar sound (read: envelope filters that are set out to make the electric sound like an acoustic), that after that resurfaced only sporadically ("Stink-Foot", "IPNTCIYM" aka "Lather").
73 was the year envelope filters came out how they going to be on 60's albums probably change from Dunlop Wah for a Vox ,should be no difference sitting or standing just last longer sitting down.

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:42 pm 
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cleon wrote:
pbuzby wrote:
Some of FZ's best guitar playing until 1976 or so, thanks partly to Aynsley's drum support. Just wish he played more often.
I cant think now who FZ said was is last Drum and Bass players suited his playing?


Arthur Barrow and Vinnie Colaiuta won his "favorite rhythm section" if I remember correctly. It's been a while since I read the Real Frank Zappa Book.

As much as I love 200 Motels, I still don't own the album and have only seen the movie once.

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:52 am 
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schvanzbass wrote:
As much as I love 200 Motels, I still don't own the album and have only seen the movie once.

It's a real tough watch the first time through, or at least was for me... Very confusing... But I think after about a dozen viewings over the course of the last two years, I think I've developed a something of an understanding of the film. It (and the corresponding soundtrack) have each earned a special place in my heart, especially the scenes with Ringo.

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:13 pm 
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I wanna see it again. I just haven't had time/access to it.

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:34 am 
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200M can be watched on youtube (don't know if it is accessible in every country):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RwpOXYZHxI

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:09 pm 
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Also on NetFlix

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:40 pm 
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duchamp wrote:
Also on NetFlix


Haven't had time to re-activate my Netflix, even if I did I wouldn't get the time to sit down for the 2 hours lol

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 2:55 am 
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Speaking of the particular instrumentation of Flo & Eddie Mothers, was Frank Zappa the first rock musician to have a band that featured two electric keyboardists in its full time lineup? Certainly, Miles Davis beat him to it in the jazz-rock department with the "In A Silent Way" album, but that particular arrangement was a studio affair mostly, he still played with only one pianist live. However, live I don't think any other rock group had two full time keyboardists on stage until Zappa appeared in May 1970 with Don Preston and Ian Underwood, then in June swapping Preston for George Duke.

Later of course other progressive and somewhat Zappa influenced bands would appear with two keyboards. Magma has frequently used two keyboards on and off since 1972. Most representatively perhaps on the 1975 live album. Then there was the early National Health with organist Dave Stewart and pianist/Moog player Alan Gowen. See the "Missing Pieces" album.

Nowadays of course it's much more common to have bands with two guitars, bass and drums, it's like keyboards are only used to spice up the sound in studio. A shame. Zappa himself abandoned the Lou Reed's model of two guitars, bass and drums pretty quick after 1966. The only subsequent tour without keyboards of course compensated the lack thereof with...brass and some woodwinds!

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 3:29 am 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
Speaking of the particular instrumentation of Flo & Eddie Mothers, was Frank Zappa the first rock musician to have a band that featured two electric keyboardists in its full time lineup? Certainly, Miles Davis beat him to it in the jazz-rock department with the "In A Silent Way" album, but that particular arrangement was a studio affair mostly, he still played with only one pianist live. However, live I don't think any other rock group had two full time keyboardists on stage until Zappa appeared in May 1970 with Don Preston and Ian Underwood, then in June swapping Preston for George Duke.

Later of course other progressive and somewhat Zappa influenced bands would appear with two keyboards. Magma has frequently used two keyboards on and off since 1972. Most representatively perhaps on the 1975 live album. Then there was the early National Health with organist Dave Stewart and pianist/Moog player Alan Gowen. See the "Missing Pieces" album.

Nowadays of course it's much more common to have bands with two guitars, bass and drums, it's like keyboards are only used to spice up the sound in studio. A shame. Zappa himself abandoned the Lou Reed's model of two guitars, bass and drums pretty quick after 1966. The only subsequent tour without keyboards of course compensated the lack thereof with...brass and some woodwinds!



Procol Harum?

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:57 am 
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Procol Harum and the Band had piano + organ lineups in the '60s, but I think both used mainly acoustic piano--certainly Procol did. Rare Bird had a guitarless format of electric piano, organ, bass and drums in 1969.


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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:25 am 
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Miles Davis used two keyboardists live for a while in mid 1970, Chick Corea and Keith Jarrett. From what I've read it was hard to work this out with the stage monitor technology of the time so they often couldn't hear each other.

Santana used two keyboardists live starting in 1972.


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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 6:08 am 
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Shrewnews wrote:
Procol Harum and the Band had piano + organ lineups in the '60s, but I think both used mainly acoustic piano--certainly Procol did. Rare Bird had a guitarless format of electric piano, organ, bass and drums in 1969.


Good call on the Procol Harum. Of course I have no idea if they also used the acoustic piano at all live gigs as well, or did they resort to using an electric piano (Rhodes? Wurli? Pianet? RMI?) for the live setting, like so many bands at the same era.

In the similar vein, Peter Hammill occasionally used a Hohner Pianet to complement Hugh Banton's organ playing with Van der Graaf Generator starting at least 1971.

Rare Bird is good too: "Sympathy" is a haunting piece of music, some really tasty Hammond fills there too. Of course, there's also the b-side "Beautiful Scarlet", which rocks! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5zbv2-ZL_o The electric pianist turns in a kick-ass fuzzed out solo. Sounds like Hohner Pianet, but it's hard to make it out precisely. Maybe it's a different model than I've seen so far.

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 8:16 am 
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I saw Procol Harum in 69 Mathew fischer was playing a B3, I also saw Led Zeppelin in 69 and John Paul Jones played an electric keyboard on a few songs, Traffic also played with 2 keyboards live at times.

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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:42 am 
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I wouldn't mind hearing a professionally recorded live King Kong with Bob Harris, does this exist? Outside the Yoko jam, I mean.


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 Post subject: Re: I've gotta confess
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:12 am 
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I love Flo and Eddie! It's a pity that Rainbow put an end to the era: I'd love to see the Billy the Mountain movie.

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