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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:58 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
I knew you were there, Kirk! I hope you had yer rulebook out when you banged on that rock with a stick.


you caught me in the middle of an edit^. I don't know if it was necessary, but.....

Rule one: Hit hollow log with sturdy stick in a rhythmic pattern, then ad a little rock as you progress. :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:02 pm 
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...in 13/4


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:00 pm 
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cleon wrote:
And saying there are no rules too music proves how stupid you are...
It seems to be obvious to everyone except you that nobody is saying there are no rules period. I've studied tonnes of music theory. I write all my music down using standard notation that other musicians can read. I've studied various scores of Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms, Dvorak, Stravinsky, Varese and Frank Zappa. I've studied the driving ideas behind baroque, classical, romantic, impressionist, serial, jazz, blues, rock and a whole range of 20th C musical idioms. I couldn't have done the majority of that in the detail in which I did it without learning how to read and write music first and a whole bunch of language and theory that has enabled me to read various books on all of the above. And having a reasonable grasp of speaking and writing at least one spoken language for starters was a big help.

The rules we are talking about here are the rules of composing, not the rules of the mechanics of performing or communicating music.

You want to shout at and abuse someone because you insist they're not using the term pentatonic properly. And then arsehead joins in and farts out something about the pentatonic minor. There are fucking reams of pentatonic scales not just two. Some pentatonic scales have semitones in them, some have augmented seconds and so on. It just depends on how limited your musical education is. Yes there are purists who write pieces in one particular idiom and adhere to a strict set of rules, but they're specialists, most composers of the 20th and 21st centuries didn't or don't restrict themselves in that way.

In my original post about this, which you clearly didn't either read or understand, but feel justified in commenting upon, I referred to that rule in that book about 20th C composition. That was a summary of the 20th C up to the point he wrote that book in 1961. That is not saying that it all happens at random and I did go on to mention "immersion and study in the widest and deepest variety of musical idioms" etc. In the book he said: "Successful projection will depend upon the contextual and formal conditions that prevail, and upon the skill and the soul of the composer." In the foreword he writes: "The embryonic composer has a technical heritage. Little can stand in his way if he possesses creative talent". Zappa was twenty at the time, I was five.

I'm not objecting to the term "rule" as such, I'm objecting to your use of the word as some kind of club to hit people with because somehow you believe they're not using it right. You're bereft of subtlety, a blunt instrument, let's hear you hammer away some more now.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:36 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
cleon wrote:
And saying there are no rules too music proves how stupid you are...
It seems to be obvious to everyone except you that nobody is saying there are no rules period. I've studied tonnes of music theory. I write all my music down using standard notation that other musicians can read. I've studied various scores of Bach, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms, Dvorak, Stravinsky, Varese and Frank Zappa. I've studied the driving ideas behind baroque, classical, romantic, impressionist, serial, jazz, blues, rock and a whole range of 20th C musical idioms. I couldn't have done the majority of that in the detail in which I did it without learning how to read and write music first and a whole bunch of language and theory that has enabled me to read various books on all of the above. And having a reasonable grasp of speaking and writing at least one spoken language for starters was a big help.

The rules we are talking about here are the rules of composing, not the rules of the mechanics of performing or communicating music.

You want to shout at and abuse someone because you insist they're not using the term pentatonic properly. And then arsehead joins in and farts out something about the pentatonic minor. There are fucking reams of pentatonic scales not just two. Some pentatonic scales have semitones in them, some have augmented seconds and so on. It just depends on how limited your musical education is. Yes there are purists who write pieces in one particular idiom and adhere to a strict set of rules, but they're specialists, most composers of the 20th and 21st centuries didn't or don't restrict themselves in that way.

In my original post about this, which you clearly didn't either read or understand, but feel justified in commenting upon, I referred to that rule in that book about 20th C composition. That was a summary of the 20th C up to the point he wrote that book in 1961. That is not saying that it all happens at random and I did go on to mention "immersion and study in the widest and deepest variety of musical idioms" etc. In the book he said: "Successful projection will depend upon the contextual and formal conditions that prevail, and upon the skill and the soul of the composer." In the foreword he writes: "The embryonic composer has a technical heritage. Little can stand in his way if he possesses creative talent". Zappa was twenty at the time, I was five.

I'm not objecting to the term "rule" as such, I'm objecting to your use of the word as some kind of club to hit people with because somehow you believe they're not using it right. You're bereft of subtlety, a blunt instrument, let's hear you hammer away some more now.
Typical Politically Correct Jive take a little of my post where out of contrast and post you own Blah Blah.
Read back and your agreeing with like i said somebody who ain't got a Clue[DM],as for the Asshole{dumbo} who said he agreed ain't got a Clue either,why agree with yourself and somebody who ain't got a clue where have myself and Disco Boy got it wrong,

If your a Teacher get yourself a Knitting Needle and slap they fingers for getting Music Notation wrong because that is where it comes from once they got a clue.Yer That's right no fucker can do it for no nobody that's the only part that is original tough it ain't.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:00 pm 
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          Image

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:06 pm 
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cleon wrote:
i said somebody who ain't got a Clue[DM]




Here's a clue: What's pleasing to the spoiled, corrupt ears of Priests, Kings, Queens and all other bullshit authority figures is what led to many of these musical "rules" to begin with. It's just more repression, limiting the possibilities of music. Just like the ruling class does with everything else. Banning certain triads and such. If your car goes 100 miles per hour but the speed limit is 55, are you gonna spend your life never going over 55? You go lick the king's ass, Cleon, I'll be over here jamming like a motherfucker.

We're all individuals. Maybe I like dissonance! Maybe I don't wanna resolve a phrase. Not everything in life is resolved. Most things are not. ie: this discussion.

It's great to know all the theory etc but it can't save your actual performance. It comes down to energy.
It's like sex: Are you going to talk about sex or are you going to fuck?

I'm beyond wasting my time proving to some hung up stranger that I know how scales work.

I realize Wales is a hotbed of musical innovators but goddamn.....

Let's talk about Hungarian minor scales next ......
instead of posting a link to what we did with them.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:23 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
...in 13/4

This time let's roll the dice and do it in 11/15. Queensland rules ok? :wink: :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:44 pm 
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11/15? With sticks and rocks? Don't let the queen hear it!!!!




Another clue:
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:39 pm 
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Gray_Ghost wrote:
What's your point?


Primarily? Irony...

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:10 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
We're all individuals.

I'm not
TT

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:30 am 
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deuce wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
We're all individuals.

I'm not
TT


Careful TT, you might be taken out of contrast :wink:


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:03 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
11/15? With sticks and rocks? Don't let the queen hear it!!!!




Another clue:
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Yer nice name,who's that for dinosaurs ImageGet this suck if your in to fiddle if you know what i mean :P
Hungarian scale just play in and out around in key of A and key of C FZ style it be more interesting please,no more Cliché you'll heart your throat :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:27 pm 
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Slonimsky's book was written in the first half of the 20th C and covers a much wider range of idioms than Ted Greene's book. Coltrane studied Slonimsky's book. If you could be bothered to learn the principles of chord substitution and so on in Chord Chemistry and apply them strictly you'll end up sounding like a whole bunch of boring jazz guitarists sound. This is what happened when I studied Mickey Baker's books. The principles he's describing in those books are the principles of things that have already been done. I certainly improved my overall playing technique by playing his exercises and got some interesting compositional ideas but I did not just want to sound like him or his ilk. Even Slonimsky's book, while covering a far broader range than the others mentioned, is basically about understanding what had already been done up to the time he wrote it. There are no magic books. I think the more idioms you study and understand the better, but ultimately you have to find your own voice.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:49 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
Slonimsky's book was written in the first half of the 20th C and covers a much wider range of idioms than Ted Greene's book. Coltrane studied Slonimsky's book. If you could be bothered to learn the principles of chord substitution and so on in Chord Chemistry and apply them strictly you'll end up sounding like a whole bunch of boring jazz guitarists sound. This is what happened when I studied Mickey Baker's books. The principles he's describing in those books are the principles of things that have already been done. I certainly improved my overall playing technique by playing his exercises and got some interesting compositional ideas but I did not just want to sound like him or his ilk. Even Slonimsky's book, while covering a far broader range than the others mentioned, is basically about understanding what had already been done up to the time he wrote it. There are no magic books. I think the more idioms you study and understand the better, but ultimately you have to find your own voice.
Published 1947,Ted Green 1971 his book did't cover shit he brought it too about where it's@ Just Jazz Chords where did you dream that up,He liked Jazz playing himself though that book if far from that,anyway take a little from each book there.Find Voice i think i said that Yesterday post in so many words.

Here it is just in case your scroll if Fucked :D
Yer That's right no fucker can do it for no nobody that's the only part that is original tough it ain't. 8)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:51 pm 
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I put that particular book up because of the Zappa connection. Wasn't it obvious?? I know when it was copyrighted. I check that stuff.

There's a shit ton of scale books. None of them will make you a good musician.
Are we now going to argue about what the best scale books are? haha. Fuck!

I'm never talking to you again, Cleon.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:39 pm 
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I'm not sure I understand Cleon's last post. Anyone? His comments about Slonimsky and the other guy are blurred together. What I do get is that his arguing technique has only two steps in it. Either: (1) You're an arsehole if he doesn't agree with you and he knows what's going on, so stop disagreeing with him. (2) You're an areshole if he does agree with you because he said it first, so stop copying him you bastard. Basically, he's a tit. As in tit for tat.

It's possible that he just doesn't get most of what's being said by others. Seriously, if he learned to read and write properly, his life might get a whole lot simpler and less angst ridden - either that or he'd just become a well spoken tit.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:37 am 
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polydigm wrote:
I'm not sure I understand Cleon's last post. Anyone? His comments about Slonimsky and the other guy are blurred together. What I do get is that his arguing technique has only two steps in it. Either: (1) You're an arsehole if he doesn't agree with you and he knows what's going on, so stop disagreeing with him. (2) You're an areshole if he does agree with you because he said it first, so stop copying him you bastard. Basically, he's a tit. As in tit for tat.

It's possible that he just doesn't get most of what's being said by others. Seriously, if he learned to read and write properly, his life might get a whole lot simpler and less angst ridden - either that or he'd just become a well spoken tit.


a well spoken tit who's been taken out of contrast....


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:49 am 
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You know how hard it is to make shit out when the contrast has gone to blazes.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:35 pm 
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Well said Gray Ghost :mrgreen:

When you let thinks go out of Contrast in this case :wink:

At least now The guy who ain't got a clue[DM] is not talking too me,He was still talking about Scales too me when after i said Fuck Scales because find it a waste of time now i'm a Key reader,Bragging about knowing the date of a Book he posted when I said it too yourself[Poly]saying it's a Zappa connection book well so was mine being Jamie Kime was a Ted Greene Student.copyrighted is that a word he use sounds like a kid talking Copy wrote be my guess was meant?

Let me state that how i see Tit For Tat,It takes too too Tango,Being a Adult who cares,sorry for the Words Politically Correct.

I would of and will tell you where you asked,Being only i would know.Though i can't see why you stared calling Ted Greene the other guy when Wrote his name in your previous post,A little Tit For Tat has you say?

[Slonimsky and the other guy are blurred together]
Well if i was piano player i would not go by TG'Book as aimed at guitar,You read that book and understand there be nobody left too slap your fingers,it ain't a Jazz book,
And being that time some bad ass Music going down though i think FZ stared shining his style 1973 theirs about.

This is where i got too guess [blurred together]
buy The Dinosaur Book if you wonna learn scales.buy TG's book if you got imagination after scales to pursue.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:49 pm 
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cleon wrote:

At least now The guy who ain't got a clue[DM] is not talking too me,He was still talking about Scales too me when after i said Fuck Scales because find it a waste of time now i'm a Key reader,Bragging about knowing the date of a Book he posted when I said it too yourself[Poly]saying it's a Zappa connection book well so was mine being Jamie Kime was a Ted Greene Student.copyrighted is that a word he use sounds like a kid talking Copy wrote be my guess was meant?



I think this paragraph is almost worthy of James Joyce. So many interpretations, so little time...

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:03 pm 
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A wonder to behold --- how every single thread on this forum turns into a venomous pile of vomit between a couple people every time. What is this thread about again? haha.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:07 pm 
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Caputh wrote:
cleon wrote:

At least now The guy who ain't got a clue[DM] is not talking too me,He was still talking about Scales too me when after i said Fuck Scales because find it a waste of time now i'm a Key reader,Bragging about knowing the date of a Book he posted when I said it too yourself[Poly]saying it's a Zappa connection book well so was mine being Jamie Kime was a Ted Greene Student.copyrighted is that a word he use sounds like a kid talking Copy wrote be my guess was meant?



I think this paragraph is almost worthy of James Joyce. So many interpretations, so little time...

You literate kinda' guy you! It is very JJish indeed, in an English Let it Be, Let it Bleed, Blue Jay way. :)

On Topic: Insert Buddy Rich jazz solo here. 8)

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:50 pm 
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Phlakaton wrote:
A wonder to behold --- how every single thread on this forum turns into a venomous pile of vomit between a couple people every time. What is this thread about again? haha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFo8-JqzSCM
Chuck Berry - Johnny B. Goode
Hendrix rushed it Flat when it suited :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:10 pm 
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The fact remains Cleon that you don't understand a lot of what other people are writing and your posts are mostly incoherent. If you don't work at improving your English then these misunderstandings will continue. And I still don't get where politically correct comes into it. I'm not known for political correctness. If you really are retarded, then I'm sorry, you're out of your depth, but if you're not, then get off your lazy arse and work at a better way to communicate.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:47 pm 
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Your fact remains what would be expected from a PC person,why you getting baffled by language your shit what I seen on guitar even your guitar sounded shit 8)

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