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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:07 pm 
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I don't get it. I don't hate it but it seems to be an extremely well liked song. I like segments of it, but it really is too disjointed (segmented, god I don't know how to express this accurately) overall for my taste.

Am I alone here?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:44 pm 
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Grimpoteuthis wrote:
I don't get it. I don't hate it but it seems to be an extremely well liked song. I like segments of it, but it really is too disjointed (segmented, god I don't know how to express this accurately) overall for my taste.

Am I alone here?


It dhould be viewed as a game-changer when released in 1966. I will admit it doesn't have the current shock value that it did then.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:22 pm 
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It's serial music: a bunch of often-dissimilar segments spliced together.

Think of it as the prototype for Lumpy Gravy and We're Only In It For The Money.

If you don't like it, that's too bad. I think it's absolute genius...

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:21 pm 
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but lumpy gravy and WOIIFTM both FLOW, and are exercises in pretty extreme editing (for the time). Brown Shoes just feels like block A, block B, block C, to me. Some blocks are better than others, none of them are too funny or clever.

It doesn't have that perfect chaos > beauty that weasels does either. It has chaos section / beauty section blocks.

I guess it's trying to do what those albums do within the context of a single song and with just composition rather than editing... just kind of a cumbersome song to me though that often gets skipped.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:08 pm 
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I like it a lot. After discovering Zappa in '76 w/ Zoot Allures I gradually worked my way back. I first heard Brown Shoes on Mothermania probably in '78. I guess you could say I was intrigued by what I heard.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:27 pm 
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I have no problem with it, but the words are more difficult to listen to nowadays
a/. cos I've got four young daughters, and
b/. the obvious one.
TT

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:23 am 
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deuce wrote:
I have no problem with it, but the words are more difficult to listen to nowadays
a/. cos I've got four young daughters, and
b/. the obvious one.
TT


What obvious one?
You wear brown shoes?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:32 am 
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Quilt wrote:
What obvious one?
You wear brown shoes?

You know, ralph guacomole...
T

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:53 am 
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deuce wrote:
Quilt wrote:
What obvious one?
You wear brown shoes?

You know, ralph guacomole...

There's absolutely no connection between Brown Shoes Don't Make It and Roy Estrada's crimes. The asdociation is ludicrous, based on a total misinterpretation of the song. Does it not matter to you that the song EXPOSES the hypocrite pedophile politician? It's not as if Zappa's giving the character a pat on the back. I have to listen to Absolutely Free now.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:54 am 
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deuce wrote:
Quilt wrote:
What obvious one?
You wear brown shoes?

You know, ralph guacomole...
T


Ouch. Ya. Met him here in Austin a couple years ago. My son was with me. Uggg.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:49 am 
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DC Boogie wrote:
deuce wrote:
Quilt wrote:
What obvious one?
You wear brown shoes?

You know, ralph guacomole...

There's absolutely no connection between Brown Shoes Don't Make It and Roy Estrada's crimes. The asdociation is ludicrous, based on a total misinterpretation of the song. Does it not matter to you that the song EXPOSES the hypocrite pedophile politician? It's not as if Zappa's giving the character a pat on the back. I have to listen to Absolutely Free now.

I haven't misinterpreted the song - its very straightforward.
For ME it makes (quote) "the words ... more difficult to listen to nowadays".
Really no need for you to have issue with that - you just wanted to pounce. Pounce again then.
TT

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:47 pm 
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Grimpoteuthis wrote:
I don't get it. I don't hate it but it seems to be an extremely well liked song. I like segments of it, but it really is too disjointed (segmented, god I don't know how to express this accurately) overall for my taste.

Am I alone here?


Ah, your least favourite song on "Road Tapes Venue 2" then?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:19 pm 
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With so many splices it's hard to get the music flowing. Absolutely Free is a chaotic album. It doesn't really hit the spot too often for me. Every now and again it's the only Zappa album I wanna hear. I appreciate it for what it is. BSDMI is the obvious centerpiece, I suppose. A stand out track.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:22 pm 
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MentalTossFlycoon wrote:
It's serial music: a bunch of often-dissimilar segments spliced together.
Think of it as the prototype for Lumpy Gravy and We're Only In It For The Money.
If you don't like it, that's too bad. I think it's absolute genius...

well put. couldn't agree more. 8)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:43 pm 
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For me, the spliced segments work well. The musical style changes gears several times with distinct parts, but the song remains cohesive...not unlike The Who's "A Quick One While He's Away". Just denser. A fitting climax to a great album, with ADAGH as a kind of postscript.

And let's not forget the great version on Tinseltown.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:25 pm 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
Grimpoteuthis wrote:
I don't get it. I don't hate it but it seems to be an extremely well liked song. I like segments of it, but it really is too disjointed (segmented, god I don't know how to express this accurately) overall for my taste.

Am I alone here?


Ah, your least favourite song on "Road Tapes Venue 2" then?


Yup, in fact the love over the presence of the tune on that particular album is why I made the post. I have a high tolerance for weirdness with MAMM and other Synclaiver pieces being my favorites, it's just something about BSDMI doesn't do it (as much for me)

Trust me, I like the song fine, (these discussions always lead to making it sound like I HATE the song) It isn't that I hate the song it's just that given a sampling of Zappa songs, unless it was grouped with Valley Girl, it wouldn't be the tune I write home about let alone revere above so many others.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 6:32 pm 
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sleeping in a jar wrote:
And let's not forget the great version on Tinseltown.
nah, I don't really like that version.
"brown shoes don't make it" belongs on "absolutely free." 8)

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:26 pm 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
sleeping in a jar wrote:
And let's not forget the great version on Tinseltown.
nah, I don't really like that version.
"brown shoes don't make it" belongs on "absolutely free." 8)



I am ambivalent about the TTR version too, but I don't skip it.

AF, to me, is a groundbreaking album. Invocation and Dance of the Ritualistic Pumkin is, IMHO, the first great FZ guitar piece. I could go on, but BSDMI is an artifact and of its time. Right or wrong, 60s tunes had their share of pedophilia (Stray Cat Blues from Beggar's Banquet, is just another example).

Let's be clear, I don't condone it, and am repulsed by Roy's behavior.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:35 pm 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
sleeping in a jar wrote:
And let's not forget the great version on Tinseltown.
nah, I don't really like that version.
"brown shoes don't make it" belongs on "absolutely free." 8)


I really like the way they pull off a live-in-concert version of that song...no small feat.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:26 am 
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Absolutely Free is my favorite of the first three classics. Brown Shoes reminds me of the Who's A Quick One While He's Away. Townshend put together bits of songs like Zappa did. Absolutely Free is a concept album with two parts. Excellently done.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:00 pm 
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I'm Hung-Up wrote:
Absolutely Free is my favorite of the first three classics.


Mine too. Always has been.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:18 pm 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPdq1Lu3wb4
Zappas Universe - brown shoes dont make it
This is my fav :shock: :P :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:08 am 
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I suggest listening to the Tinseltown version and then returning to the original. The Tinseltown version is far less disjointed and it'll give you an idea of how the piece flows and the melodies work. Then, check out the "Absolutely Free" rendition and it'll all make sense. Worked for me.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:20 am 
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For those who don't like the TTR-version: Listen to what Ed Mann is playing :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:44 pm 
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sleeping in a jar wrote:
And let's not forget the great version on Tinseltown.
Lumpy Gravy wrote:
nah, I don't really like that version. "brown shoes don't make it" belongs on "absolutely free." 8)
ursinator wrote:
For those who don't like the TTR-version: Listen to what Ed Mann is playing :wink:
sure, ed mann was great, but, the 'tinsel town rebellion' version still doesn't beat the original. it just doesn't have the same originality, rough texture or the same impression on me, as a listener.

but, then again, that's just me.

now, this is a version I would have loved to be able to hear: "if you sit down and be quiet, we'll make an attempt to, ah, perform 'brown shoes don't make it'"

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