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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:59 am 
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You Are What You Is !!

Edit: YAWYI is the best album to brain wash people that has never heard Zappa music, after 5 -6 listen of the whole album they are hooked for life lol

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Last edited by ZutboF on Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:02 am 
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I guess for me I kind of saw the eighties more for the orchestral
and synclavier stuff. Of which I love it. Especially the orchestral.
When he did tour his guitar solos were awesome!
He would go "right out there" with some NASTY experimental
noise core stuff. One of my favourite solos was
"I come from nowhere" SICK!


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:04 am 
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jeddy wrote:
"I come from nowhere"


I love that song. Drowning Witch is underrated I think. No Not Now is hilarious.

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:47 pm 
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NuclearProstate wrote:
Drowning Witch is underrated I think.

If I rated albums I'd rate it a 2.5 out of 10. Not underrated at all.

I'd rate the sound quality of that album a 2.5 as well.


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Really? That low? I'm just wondering what your reasons are. I'd give it at least 6.5/7 out of 10.
Any albums you like less?

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:33 pm 
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SATLTSADW is one of the greats. "Side 2" alone - Drowning Witch, Envelopes and Teenage Prostitute - are great. Especially the section where DW morphs into Envelopes. Fabulous playing, complex arrangements...Just so cool.

On "Side 1," Valley Girl is stinky, but No Not Now is kind of fun with an infections bass line, and I Come From Nowhere is truly disturbing and entertaining (especially now that I've seen it live with the Dweeze.

Give it a break guys!

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:39 pm 
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NuclearProstate wrote:
Really? That low? I'm just wondering what your reasons are. I'd give it at least 6.5/7 out of 10.
Any albums you like less?



My reasoning:
WOIIFTM 10
Lather 10
Roxy 10
Overnite Sensation 10....

Waka Jawaka 9
Grand Wazoo 9........

OSFA 8

Zoot Allures (Find Her Finer 2... Disco Boy 3... Gas Station 5...Zoot Allures 7.5...Torture, Napkins 10) =6.5ish

Absolutely Free 6
Lumpy Gravy 6.5
Sheik Yerbouti 6.5....

Joe's Garage 5....

Civilization Phase Three 4.....

Tinseltown 2.5....

SATLTSADW 2.5....

YAWYI 2.....

TOU 1.5

Thing Fish 1

You can fill in the blanks.


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:37 pm 
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What?!!
No Uncle Meat???
No Bongo Fury???

Shouldn't you be trolling the "One Direction" website?


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:07 am 
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I think YAWYI is one of his greatest albums and to me it sounds the best (judging from the 2012 remaster).
And SATLTSADW is, to me,his latest truly great rock-album.
Every rock album after that is either incoherent (MFU) or cold and sterile (TOU).

As for the classical stuff: LSO could have been much more with more rehearsal time and without FZ interfering with the seating arrangements.
That orchestra had already been recording movie-soundtracks for years so the lay out of the orchestra was very well established.

I'm not sure what to think of his synclavier-music, I really like some tunes (Nite School) and I don't really like some of the other 'tunes', it's just a bit too abstract for me at times.
And G-Spot Tornado is much better performed by the Ensemble Modern to my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:57 am 
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You lot who don't like Valley Girl, it's a women's thing I think. Young women have a large social code for some reason, you're either with it or you're not, if you're not you can be yourself and victim of their gossip, if you are you have to paint your face and your fingernails, epilate your eyebrows, buy clothes for much more money than they're worth, and dribble over Brad Pitt. This starts in school and pretty much goes on until you're 60. As a young woman I found myself primarily in the company of men. Because they'd never nag at me I should wear make-up. I love Valley Girl because it's about the ONLY place where spoilt young women who think they're the bee's knees get owned. Like, fer sure. Thanks Frank and Moon!

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:32 am 
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I like Valley Girl.

jeddy wrote:
What?!!
No Uncle Meat???
No Bongo Fury???

Shouldn't you be trolling the "One Direction" website?

Trolling?
I have no idea what One Direction is.

I said to fill in the blanks. I'm not gonna list every Zappa album.
Bongo Fury and Uncle Meat are among Zappa's best. Their ratings in my list are implicit.


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:38 pm 
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I'm surprised at the negative comments about Them or Us. It has a variety of styles ranging from doo-wop to experimental, great guitar solos, complex arrangements, and excellent satire. Cold and sterile? WTF! To quote Frank: I think you should check it again.

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:08 pm 
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Lots of Zappa albums have a variety of styles and we wouldn't have it any other way.
My problem with TOU (and also with half of MOP) is that FZ just had his digital studio which worked differently from the analog studios he was used to.
So part of my dislike for TOU comes from the production of it.


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:09 pm 
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unclemeat69 wrote:
part of my dislike for TOU comes from the production of it.


Yeah. And the other part is the musicians play like they have never done anything in their lives besides sit around practicing their technique. Not much to offer.

The other thing is Zappa's songwriting. Not as good. Musically or lyrically. Baby Take Your Teeth Out? C'mon. His lyrics have always had some venom but some of these 80s songs are just mean spirited and bitter sounding. Suicide Chump, Jumbo, Charlie. Zappa is no longer surrounded by musicians close to his own age and is hanging out with snotty kids who think they're great. Also, too much ineffective clutter on the tracks. But mostly the early 80s digital production sucks.


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:04 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:

Yeah. And the other part is the musicians play like they have never done anything in their lives besides sit around practicing their technique. Not much to offer.

The other thing is Zappa's songwriting. Not as good. Musically or lyrically. Baby Take Your Teeth Out? C'mon. His lyrics have always had some venom but some of these 80s songs are just mean spirited and bitter sounding. Suicide Chump, Jumbo, Charlie. Zappa is no longer surrounded by musicians close to his own age and is hanging out with snotty kids who think they're great. Also, too much ineffective clutter on the tracks. But mostly the early 80s digital production sucks.


I beg to differ on all points, but to each his own. I think it's a discredit to Zappa to say he was "hanging out with snotty kids who think they're great".

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:10 pm 
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Suicide Chump is a great tune, and pertinent to all the fuckers who are unwittingly / deliberately thinking about destroying associated peoples lives on a selfish whim.
TT

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:01 pm 
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sleeping in a jar wrote:
I think it's a discredit to Zappa to say he was "hanging out with snotty kids who think they're great".


You're right. But I am sort of kidding and being a dick.
Still, listen to the 1975 Any Downers compared to the '80's version. Say's it all.


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:07 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Still, listen to the 1975 Any Downers compared to the '80's version. Say's it all.

Undeniable truth. The earlier arrangements of "Any Downers" are downright smokin' :smoke:

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:24 pm 
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Zappa went on from having musicians older than him (Ray, Jim, Bunk, Don, even Ian) to having musicians he could have been a father/teacher to (and his actual son playing an occasional guest lead guitar!). Zappa was not interested in keeping the same set of musicians around in a band permanently. As early as 1968 he was thinking of disbanding the Mothers, if we go by what Pauline Butcher has said.

Perhaps it would've helped if Zappa would've had more of the musicians like Thunes, who was an unlikely combination of punk-rocker and Stravinsky nut, but alas, they were all sterile fusion-jazz cats. But that was the set FZ had to use if he wanted to have a band more skilled than the original Mothers of Invention.

And yes, Them or Us is actually pretty representative of 1980s music production values: more session musicianly perfection, new digital studio technology, certain kinds of drum sounds (though to be fair, Billy Mundi has probably also done some drumming that went boom in the 80s, not that I know what was Mundi up to after the 1970 UCLA concert). And not really as good of a songwriting: I do agree that "Baby Take Your Teeth Out" is terrible, and not just because it's a throwaway, after all, "Lemme Take You To the Beach" is pure genius, but "Teeth" is just terrible!

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:58 am 
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He continued creating innovative and engaging music, but Zappa's songwriting from the beginning of the Eighties to the end of his career is a hit and miss affair. To me this is one of the mysteries of Zappa. I wonder if his superior intelligence and creativity in the end led him into an illusion that he was above his times, people and the world. Isn't this the underlying theme of YAWYI? I like the late period remark about his insensitivity being evenly spread out. But Zappa's satirical take on rock worked best in the environment that influenced it the most, the socio-cultural world of the Sixties and the Seventies. Look at the Palladium Halloween shows of 1977 (Baby Snakes) and 1981 (The Torture Never Stops). Something had happened in only four years, and the changes weren't becoming to Zappa and his band. Beauty Knows No Pain vs. Punky's Whips? Jumbo Go Away vs. Muffin Man? Charlie's Enormous Mouth vs. Motherly Love? It's tempting to say - what he had lost, could no longer be found.

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:55 pm 
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I suppose you are making a good point. I'm listening to a October 23 1975 recording of Any Downers now to see what all the fuss is about.

I suppose it is all subjective. The 80's stuff is really REALLY growing on me. TMFU is an album I really love whilst I used to hate it. I think Baby take your teeth out is amusing.

I need to listen to more 82 band touring music.

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:50 pm 
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NuclearProstate wrote:
I suppose you are making a good point. I'm listening to a October 23 1975 recording of Any Downers now to see what all the fuss is about.


The 75 version is more jammed but in the YAWYI version he cared enough to finish writing the song. Take your pick.


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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:42 pm 
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DC Boogie wrote:
He continued creating innovative and engaging music, but Zappa's songwriting from the beginning of the Eighties to the end of his career is a hit and miss affair. To me this is one of the mysteries of Zappa. I wonder if his superior intelligence and creativity in the end led him into an illusion that he was above his times, people and the world. Isn't this the underlying theme of YAWYI? I like the late period remark about his insensitivity being evenly spread out. But Zappa's satirical take on rock worked best in the environment that influenced it the most, the socio-cultural world of the Sixties and the Seventies. Look at the Palladium Halloween shows of 1977 (Baby Snakes) and 1981 (The Torture Never Stops). Something had happened in only four years, and the changes weren't becoming to Zappa and his band. Beauty Knows No Pain vs. Punky's Whips? Jumbo Go Away vs. Muffin Man? Charlie's Enormous Mouth vs. Motherly Love? It's tempting to say - what he had lost, could no longer be found.


Whether it was Beethoven, Proust or any number of geniuses, they were at their creative peaks when they were young.

Iit was surprising that Frank kept much of his edge into his forties. Jazz From Hell and parts of TOU, YAWYI and some of the other unreleased stuff from the 80s are brilliant. There was no artist who got their start in the 60s who came close to Zappa in output or quality in the 80s

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:05 am 
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pbuzby wrote:
NuclearProstate wrote:
I suppose you are making a good point. I'm listening to a October 23 1975 recording of Any Downers now to see what all the fuss is about.


The 75 version is more jammed but in the YAWYI version he cared enough to finish writing the song. Take your pick.


Yeah that is how I felt. I don't think Any Downers is a great song in any form. All the 75 versions I have heard don't have much going on. Maybe I'm listening to the wrong ones?

Zappa's 80's output is still better than most people's entire output.

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 Post subject: Re: 80's Zappa
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:23 am 
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tweezers wrote:
Whether it was Beethoven, Proust or any number of geniuses, they were at their creative peaks when they were young.

Iit was surprising that Frank kept much of his edge into his forties. Jazz From Hell and parts of TOU, YAWYI and some of the other unreleased stuff from the 80s are brilliant. There was no artist who got their start in the 60s who came close to Zappa in output or quality in the 80s


There is much brilliant music on Them or Us and Jazz From Hell, especially on the longer instrumental pieces. Frank may have lost some of his satirical edge, but he certainly kept his musical compositional skills intact.

Just one word regarding Beethoven: many consider his late piano sonatas and string quartets to be the pinnacle of his compositional creativity.

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