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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:48 pm 
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I think the live versions of "Brown Moses" and "The evil prince" published on Vol.4 are much more exciting than the original versions on "Thing-Fish".

I also prefer the Vol. 4 version of "Carolina's hardcore ecstasy" over the Bongo Fury original.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:22 pm 
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Zongadude wrote:
I also prefer the Vol. 4 version of "Carolina's hardcore ecstasy" over the Bongo Fury original.

The way he edited his solo on the BF version is just brilliant. That's the clincher for me. When I first heard it, and it was one of the first Zappa tunes I'd ever heard, I didn't realize it was edited, and the way he comes roaring out with that (live) guitar solo made me think he was a genius. Of course, I found out later it was edited but by then I knew for sure that he was amazing anyway. The editing is almost as impressive as if he played that solo live.
pbuzby wrote:
Re "RDNZL," technically the first was Lost Episodes, then Helsinki 1974, then the Lather/Studio Tan version was a few months after that.

Right, but I guess the Lather radio broadcast was the first official "release"?



RE: Holdsworth
Musicianship is meaningless without a good tune. The complexity of the changes will only make it worse. But I'll check out more of his playing.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:38 am 
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I think Holdsworth was a good addition to Soft Machine. Seven was the last album without guitar and it sounded a bit too soft (but not Soft Machine'y soft) for my tastes. The guitar definitely added a bit of edge to it. However, I quite liked John Etheridge a bit more, similar solo approach, but a bit more of a team player (read: he actually plays rhythm guitar when others are soloing, which Holdsworth didn't with the Softs). "British Tour '75" live archival CD is quite good in my opinion, it sounds more intense than "Bundles" or "Softs", that's probably my favourite disk of the Jenkins era Machine.

As with RDNZL, I really like the electric jazz interaction of the most initially recorded version with JLP and the take on "Road Tapes Venue 2" is simply a higher-octane rendition thereof. Later versions got a bit too, err, Wagnerian for my liking. Plus I dig the violin/reed/trombone harmonies that were later dropped in favour of unison playing. It was the Lost Episodes take that helped me to realise the song's inherent structure and how all the parts relate to each other, which was hard to pick up from the Studio Tan/Lather version's muddled as a pea soup arrangement.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:29 am 
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I like most of the Studio Tan version (especially FZ and George's solos) but wish he hadn't included those screwy "lounge jazz" piano interludes in the opening melody.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:20 pm 
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Phlakaton wrote:
Honey, Dont You Want a Man Like Me? never sounded as good as the live rendition the late '75 band did... the more funky slow backbeat Bozzio one. Joe's Manage has it. Even the version Frank changed the tempo on right after the first one was cool... he sped it up a lot - but I LOVE the first rendition.
Buffalo version is now my favorite i love The Strawberry Field Lick .25min Iink says The Irish Washerwoman is the lick which is Bullshit 8) Listen it sounds just like FZ Beatles Medleys.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:42 pm 
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Hot Rats - I prefer 80's remix, though I like both versions
Amnerika - EIHN and CPIII versions are better compared to proto-version on Thing Fish (I'd like to hear it without the dialogue over it, though)
Dio Fa - version on 1992 CPIII demo sounds dark and spooky, 1993 album version is, especially on FZ standards, unexpectedly calm, peaceful and deep
Strictly Genteel - latter instrumental versions sounds to me better, than 200 Motels original
Little House I Used To Live In - I somewhat prefer 1978 live versions

I also prefer some of "downdated" versions, e.g. pre-album live renditions - Suicide Chump sung by Ray White, for instance


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:04 pm 
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brunofulax wrote:

I also prefer some of "downdated" versions, e.g. pre-album live renditions - Suicide Chump sung by Ray White, for instance


You may be thinking of the Denny Walley version from some fall 1978 shows.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:05 am 
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pbuzby wrote:
brunofulax wrote:

I also prefer some of "downdated" versions, e.g. pre-album live renditions - Suicide Chump sung by Ray White, for instance


You may be thinking of the Denny Walley version from some fall 1978 shows.


ah, yes, you're right :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:40 am 
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brunofulax wrote:
Dio Fa - version on 1992 CPIII demo sounds dark and spooky, 1993 album version is, especially on FZ standards, unexpectedly calm, peaceful and deep


Never heard it. How and where can I get it?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:27 am 
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VacuumCleaner wrote:
brunofulax wrote:
Dio Fa - version on 1992 CPIII demo sounds dark and spooky, 1993 album version is, especially on FZ standards, unexpectedly calm, peaceful and deep


Never heard it. How and where can I get it?


http://www.lukpac.org/~handmade/patio/w ... eased.html
It's usually called "Civilization Phase 3 Demos" and it is circulating somewhere on the torrents or other internets


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