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 Post subject: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:51 pm 
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What key is the roxy version in and what key is the YCDTOSA version?

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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:25 pm 
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Roxy - B minor
Helsinki - starts in G minor, then shifts to A minor when the vocal comes in, then to B minor


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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:33 pm 
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Thanks!

I've been slowing down the Roxy version all week, transcribing it to 100% (couldnt tell you the key, though)

Tried to play along to helsinki and nothing was lining up, and when I thought I figured it out, it no longer worked.... now this makes sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:19 am 
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They both in different keys,Roxy version got a B flat which makes it not B minor.

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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:52 am 
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Grimpoteuthis wrote:
Thanks!

I've been slowing down the Roxy version all week, transcribing it to 100% (couldnt tell you the key, though)

Tried to play along to helsinki and nothing was lining up, and when I thought I figured it out, it no longer worked.... now this makes sense.


Do you mind posting your transcription once completed?


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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:05 am 
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Would maybe a video and short description work? Not a 'real' musician so noting the rhymes etc is pretty difficult for me.

The roxy version surprised me a bit, as it is essentially the same thing played 3x back to back, with some unique bits before going into dummy up.

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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:27 am 
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It's begins in the key of F major Using a blues shuffle fundametal and goes too the scale of G blues pentatonic where the Vocal stops.

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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:40 am 
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Grimpoteuthis wrote:

The roxy version surprised me a bit, as it is essentially the same thing played 3x back to back, with some unique bits before going into dummy up.


Me too. In fact I prefer the Roxy. The later Pygmy is one where I think FZ got bored and messed around with the song too much.


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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 6:31 pm 
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Strictly speaking the Roxy version starts in D major, flattening the low third (F2) in the first part of phase 1 and moving back to the high major third at the end (F3#). Then in phase 2 it bounces on relative B minor but finishes on D major, no flattened thirds in this part. In phase 3, that low grungy part, moves fully to the relative minor B and plays that with the flattened fifth (F2).

I've divided the various parts of the song into phases. I'm using octave numbers to distinguish with C3 being middle C.

I've never done this piece before, I transcribed this while writing this post.

Phase 1:

D3 A3 B3 D3 B2 A2 B2
D3 B2 F2 D2
D3 D3 A3 B3 D3 B2 A2 B2
F#3 F#3 E3 E3 E3 D2

Phase 2:

B1 A1 B1 D2
B1 A1 B1 D2 B1
B1 A2 B1 D B B
F# F# B E D

Note: I haven't done the little bass walk that goes in here that links phase 2 to phase 3.

Phase 3:

B1 D2 B1 B1 A1
B1 B1 D2 B1
F2 F2 E2 D2 E2 E2 D2 B1

Phase 4: I'll fill this in later. This part of the riff is in B minor but using F#2

This then drops back to phase 3 and so on.

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Last edited by polydigm on Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:19 pm 
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Here's what I got (wart's n' all plus some ADD)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK1B0wDL1PA

I'll have to see how that compares to what you got above polydigm ( and probably use it to correct where i'm off :wink: )

I'll try and get the (i'll steal the term here) 'phaze's' I've got either tabbed or noted like above but don't have time at the moment.

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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:30 pm 
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Why can't I meet up with musicians who like to play this kind of music in the place where I actually live?

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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:09 pm 
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...same.

Actually once I posted on Craigslist to try and start something...

I got one reply from a guitarist from Belmont University.

Everything seemed cool until I checked out her personal music page and it was plastered with religious college group crap and jesus messages... I never replied I had the feeling things wouldn't work out.


If anyone in Nashville reads this.... lets jam.

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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:43 pm 
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Napoleon Murphy Brock, indeed, You get it? 50 Cents, Bro!

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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:28 am 
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what?

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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:59 am 
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polydigm wrote:
Why can't I meet up with musicians who like to play this kind of music in the place where I actually live?


My problem is that all my friends who can play music don't like Zappa :(


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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:40 pm 
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darthpeepee wrote:
polydigm wrote:
Why can't I meet up with musicians who like to play this kind of music in the place where I actually live?


My problem is that all my friends who can play music don't like Zappa :(



Gail would pop out of a bush with a court summons anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:42 pm 
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Not much to jam to on the R&E version. Helsinki has a killer version. It's gotta have the guitar solo. Zappa seems like he's doing a "rock guitar" parody on that solo, but like the Vancouver Any Downers from '75, I think it sounds great.


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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:52 pm 
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darthpeepee wrote:
polydigm wrote:
Why can't I meet up with musicians who like to play this kind of music in the place where I actually live?
My problem is that all my friends who can play music don't like Zappa
I transcribe and play FZ tunes as an exercise. I might consider playing them with a band, but my main issue is that I'm a composer and the musicians I've managed to hook up with so far mostly find their parts too difficult. Competent musicians generally have other commitments and little spare time for an unknown.

I almost got something going a couple of years back by restricting the repertoire of my stuff to the more readily playable tunes, but even then commitments to bands playing seventies rock and such like with more comfortable and regular pay cheques won out.

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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:55 am 
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Took a stab at "Magic Fingers", the YCDTOSA vol 6 version. Renaming the song Bloody Fingers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fYbsro1zWc

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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:15 pm 
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I posted this here back in Dec 2010. No one's ever commented on it's accuracy.

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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:44 pm 
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Looks good Poly the main riff is spot on no Pentatonic got Semi Tones(mmm Wheres that thread where it is said so)
And Pygmy Twilight relative minor key playing over major key though the minor ain't the key or root.

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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:34 pm 
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^yup, stuff like this reminds me that I have no clue what the fuck I'm actually doing.

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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:13 pm 
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Grimpoteuthis wrote:
^yup, stuff like this reminds me that I have no clue what the fuck I'm actually doing.

You can hear what you're playing can't you?


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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:44 pm 
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Yeah just all the theory behind it is a mystery. I have a lot of live shows and sort of bank which notes "work" per section, as fills etc, as with Zappa this can change too often to really just sit on one scale.

Wish I knew more, but am just a hobbyist. (And being in visual effects, having a hobby is a bit of a miracle schedule-wise)

EDIT: spelling errors

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 Post subject: Re: Pygmy Twilight key?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:16 pm 
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If you wish you knew more then you will.

But notes never required any names.......
duration, pitch, intensity, timbre- it's something you hear. Sort of like how the word "bird" is just a word not an actual bird. The word is not the thing. An A7aug-b9 chord is free to go anywhere your imagination takes you.


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