Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:57 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 98 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: "The Trust"
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:44 pm
Posts: 251
polydigm wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
Anyway...."the trust".....
The basic premise of this thread was put forward by a person who shows no respect for anyone else's threads. Who gives a fuck what we talk about here?


Do you actually read what you write? Show respect for anyone else's threads? Who gives a fuck what you think.

_________________
Ob'dewlla 'x
Bob is a douche !


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Trust"
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 11:23 am
Posts: 129
Location: Hershey, PA
NewJPage wrote:
polydigm wrote:
Jaminbenb wrote:
Well as I've always felt, and said above, I DID like the sound of my dad's old console stereo filling the house on a summer afternoon because it was deep...


We all listen to music with brains full of more or less listening history and anyone who believes Vinyl is better than CD may have good reasons in terms of liking the crackle and pop like a warm fire on a Winter's night or that inexplicable warm tone it adds (which is in fact scientifically explicable and reproducible), but, if they think it's better in terms of the accuracy of reproduction of sound, they're deluding themselves.


I don't think we are deluding ourselves. It is plain old impossible to capture the same amount of information on a CD as you can capture on vinyl, so if you want "accuracy of reproduction of sound," then CD will not get you there...gets you about 15%. As for the crackle and pop, clean your records and you don't have that.



Really? I hope you're being sarcastic! Because people CHOOSE to decrease the dynamic range of a CD is their problem! When they first came out, a LOT of CD manufacturers put the disclaimer that the dynamic range exceeded what most speakers could handle! My friend with the C-10's (or what ever the heck they were back then) had a CD with the 1812 Overture whose Howitzers bottomed out his bass speakers, and he had to have one replaced! (lucky he just got them a month or two earlier, and the guy at the stereo store said "they can handle anything, even CD's!")

You DO realize that the bass on an LP is decoded by a special amplifier so that they can actually put the BASS on the LP? (which is why it mattered where you plugged your turntable in your receiver...there was a Phono jack on the back) If it wasn't for this amp, the grooves on the LP would be as wide as hell!

CD's are compressed (and sometimes way too much) because of people that don't have the proper systems to handle the information. Saying that an LP is a better medium is hilarious! It's just a personal preference of how you like your sound, as far as I'm concerned...


Last edited by Jaminbenb on Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Trust"
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:57 pm
Posts: 758
Location: Atlanta
OBDULA X wrote:
polydigm wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
Anyway...."the trust".....
The basic premise of this thread was put forward by a person who shows no respect for anyone else's threads. Who gives a fuck what we talk about here?


Do you actually read what you write? Show respect for anyone else's threads? Who gives a fuck what you think.


Obviously you do, or you would not take the time to respond.

_________________
“The power of pop music to corrupt and putrify the minds of world youth are virtually limitless."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Trust"
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:54 pm
Posts: 30
Re: audio quality. Since most of what we're likely to get from the ZFT from now on is "guerrilla audio," the sound quality is less important than it was before. Obviously, Roxy would be an exception, as would live releases of the '80s bands that were recorded at studio quality. However, the Road Tapes are my favorite ZFT releases in a long time, and I just accept that the middling audio quality is what we'll get. The performances are what matters most.

Re: trusting the trust. I see the problem generally as being 90% about poor communication. The ZFT promises certain things, doesn't deliver, and fails to give updates month after month. It feels like they're stonewalling or just plain don't give a shit. We're not "entitled" to anything from the vault, but Gail needs to do a better job of communicating with her potential customers if she wants to run a viable business. In the case of RBP, I'd say that the problem is more like 50% poor communication and 50% taking people's money months or years before delivering anything. Taking $1,000 a pop from the "distributors" without having something ready to deliver is unconscionable.

Frank's business ethics seemed to be a little "sharp" occasionally with regard to his business associates and employees, if the various bios are accurate, but most of the time he made it a practice to over-deliver to his customers. Actually, he treated his business associates and employees better than most folks do in the giant shit pool that is the music industry. Maybe we're all just spoiled.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Trust"
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:44 pm
Posts: 251
profusion wrote:
Re: audio quality. Since most of what we're likely to get from the ZFT from now on is "guerrilla audio," the sound quality is less important than it was before. Obviously, Roxy would be an exception, as would live releases of the '80s bands that were recorded at studio quality. However, the Road Tapes are my favorite ZFT releases in a long time, and I just accept that the middling audio quality is what we'll get. The performances are what matters most.

Re: trusting the trust. I see the problem generally as being 90% about poor communication. The ZFT promises certain things, doesn't deliver, and fails to give updates month after month. It feels like they're stonewalling or just plain don't give a shit. We're not "entitled" to anything from the vault, but Gail needs to do a better job of communicating with her potential customers if she wants to run a viable business. In the case of RBP, I'd say that the problem is more like 50% poor communication and 50% taking people's money months or years before delivering anything. Taking $1,000 a pop from the "distributors" without having something ready to deliver is unconscionable.

Frank's business ethics seemed to be a little "sharp" occasionally with regard to his business associates and employees, if the various bios are accurate, but most of the time he made it a practice to over-deliver to his customers. Actually, he treated his business associates and employees better than most folks do in the giant shit pool that is the music industry. Maybe we're all just spoiled.


Bingo...We are not spoiled....Just consumers who want what they paid for.

_________________
Ob'dewlla 'x
Bob is a douche !


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Trust"
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:48 pm
Posts: 20678
Location: Somewhere in time
OBDULA X wrote:
profusion wrote:
Re: audio quality. Since most of what we're likely to get from the ZFT from now on is "guerrilla audio," the sound quality is less important than it was before. Obviously, Roxy would be an exception, as would live releases of the '80s bands that were recorded at studio quality. However, the Road Tapes are my favorite ZFT releases in a long time, and I just accept that the middling audio quality is what we'll get. The performances are what matters most.

Re: trusting the trust. I see the problem generally as being 90% about poor communication. The ZFT promises certain things, doesn't deliver, and fails to give updates month after month. It feels like they're stonewalling or just plain don't give a shit. We're not "entitled" to anything from the vault, but Gail needs to do a better job of communicating with her potential customers if she wants to run a viable business. In the case of RBP, I'd say that the problem is more like 50% poor communication and 50% taking people's money months or years before delivering anything. Taking $1,000 a pop from the "distributors" without having something ready to deliver is unconscionable.

Frank's business ethics seemed to be a little "sharp" occasionally with regard to his business associates and employees, if the various bios are accurate, but most of the time he made it a practice to over-deliver to his customers. Actually, he treated his business associates and employees better than most folks do in the giant shit pool that is the music industry. Maybe we're all just spoiled.


Bingo...We are not spoiled....Just consumers who want what they paid for.



Easy Tiger, you've been clean for a while, maybe you should attend a DA meeting... :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Trust"
PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:51 am
Posts: 101
Location: czech-o-slovakia
NewJPage wrote:
It is plain old impossible to capture the same amount of information on a CD as you can capture on vinyl, so if you want "accuracy of reproduction of sound," then CD will not get you there...gets you about 15%.


That's not true, CD has better frequency response compared to vinyl, and much higher dynamic range. As for "more accurate sound", accuracy of CD audio is good enough, unless you can hear frequencies over 22 kHz (for example, if you are a dog).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Trust"
PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 11:37 am
Posts: 513
If any other "bizzzznesss" took my money and I didn't get what I supposidly purchased I would take them to court.
The ZFT are one step away from being crooks.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Trust"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:09 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2003 2:41 pm
Posts: 15000
You know, seriously, this is the wrong place to complain and get results.

_________________
One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy over the good fortune of others.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Trust"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:52 am
Posts: 98
brunofulax wrote:
NewJPage wrote:
It is plain old impossible to capture the same amount of information on a CD as you can capture on vinyl, so if you want "accuracy of reproduction of sound," then CD will not get you there...gets you about 15%.


That's not true, CD has better frequency response compared to vinyl, and much higher dynamic range. As for "more accurate sound", accuracy of CD audio is good enough, unless you can hear frequencies over 22 kHz (for example, if you are a dog).


higher dynamic range is purely theoretical. in reality, CDs are compressed and squashed to the point that the dynamic range is nil. It is almost as if a format that can hold a fraction of the information that another can is losing something...usually most notable in the sound of drums or brass instruments, for example. the only limits on dynamic range for vinyl are having bass up to the point where it causes the needle to jump, which does not come in to play too often


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Trust"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 3212
Location: Between the Badges
For those who think Neil Young is onto something about audio quality...

Neil Young launches new music player based on magic beans and unicorn poop

http://rocknerd.co.uk/2014/03/10/neil-young-launches-new-music-player-based-on-magic-beans-and-unicorn-poop/

_________________
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Don't Be Stupid Unless You Want To


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Trust"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:51 pm
Posts: 8838
Location: Wellington New Zealand
Neil Young talks about this at lengh in his book, Waging Heavy Peace.

Weighing in at 497 pages his book is a heavy piece


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Trust"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 2342
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
For those who think Neil Young is onto something about audio quality...

Neil Young launches new music player based on magic beans and unicorn poop

http://rocknerd.co.uk/2014/03/10/neil-young-launches-new-music-player-based-on-magic-beans-and-unicorn-poop/


I just want to make it clear to you, since I brought up Neil Young in this thread, I didn't base any of my own thoughts about audio quality on anything Neil Young said. I just stated that his music does suffer from the mp3 treatment. I base what I say on my own experience. I don't listen to rock stars and then adopt their opinions. I'm not spewing what some sound guy told me.

I don't always care about audio quality- it's the performance that counts!!- but depending on the album, I do sometimes care. Distorted guitars have immense power over the human nervous system. mp3s neuter overtones. It's probably by design! mp3s are censorship! haha...seriously.

NewJPage wrote:
higher dynamic range is purely theoretical. in reality, CDs are compressed and squashed to the point that the dynamic range is nil.


Oh well. Maybe people are simply relying on what they've read/been told by other people who claim to have superior listening abilities. The business of "Sound" is just another racket.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Trust"
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:48 pm
Posts: 976
Location: Austin
downer mydnyte wrote:
Oh well. Maybe people are simply relying on what they've read/been told by other people who claim to have superior listening abilities. The business of "Sound" is just another racket.


Totally agree. Subjective stuff.

_________________
Take a penny... give a shit.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Trust"
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 3212
Location: Between the Badges
I am a NY fan. But, I don't think he's the future of audio formatting. Downer, I'm not solely addressing NY comments at you, but if you want to defend NY's comments, well, there we are. I am aware that you don't just repeat what others say.
I listen to many formats on many systems. Sometimes, its at low volume and I'm just hearing the top melody or beat. Sometimes, I am listening to music to analyze and better understand it. Sometimes, I just want to relax and enjoy the sound. I don't need every distortion sparkle to do all the above. If I'm just checking out a band, I'm not going to monitor at a volume where perfect overtone reproduction is even recognizable, much less necessary. In reference to "mp3s neuter overtones", if we are talking about 128, yes. Others, less so. Any format can suck and often does. To quote Eugene Chadbourne: "I like Hi-Fi and I like Lo-Fi.".

_________________
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Don't Be Stupid Unless You Want To


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Trust"
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 2342
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
Downer, I'm not solely addressing NY comments at you, but if you want to defend NY's comments, well, there we are.


Well, I brought NY up. However, I do not want to defend his comments. I don't even know what his comments are. I just know he was bitching about mp3s.

The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
In reference to "mp3s neuter overtones", if we are talking about 128, yes. Others, less so.


Fair enough. Of course, not only overtones suffer. But I don't want to drag this particular discussion out. I certainly see your points. And they're good ones!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Trust"
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:55 pm
Posts: 2342
Zappa: "The word ‘culture’ is kind of a loaded word. Let’s take a look at the world of painting. Painting, as a business in the United States, is controlled by a sort-of mafia that selects who will be a star and how much their work will be worth. And the other part of that mafia is dealing with the sale and resale of major works of dead people as investment property. It’s kind of like the real estate business."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Trust"
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:14 am
Posts: 18920
Location: Kitchener, Ontario, CANADA
downer mydnyte wrote:
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
For those who think Neil Young is onto something about audio quality...

Neil Young launches new music player based on magic beans and unicorn poop

http://rocknerd.co.uk/2014/03/10/neil-young-launches-new-music-player-based-on-magic-beans-and-unicorn-poop/


I just want to make it clear to you, since I brought up Neil Young in this thread, I didn't base any of my own thoughts about audio quality on anything Neil Young said. I just stated that his music does suffer from the mp3 treatment. I base what I say on my own experience. I don't listen to rock stars and then adopt their opinions. I'm not spewing what some sound guy told me.

I don't always care about audio quality- it's the performance that counts!!- but depending on the album, I do sometimes care. Distorted guitars have immense power over the human nervous system. mp3s neuter overtones. It's probably by design! mp3s are censorship! haha...seriously.

NewJPage wrote:
higher dynamic range is purely theoretical. in reality, CDs are compressed and squashed to the point that the dynamic range is nil.


Oh well. Maybe people are simply relying on what they've read/been told by other people who claim to have superior listening abilities. The business of "Sound" is just another racket.

I'm gettin' The Neiler to raise funds for my next project!

Image

_________________
You're probably wondering why I'm here
(not that it makes a heck of a lot of a difference to ya)
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Trust"
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:48 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:29 pm
Posts: 1677
Location: south midlands, UK
downer mydnyte wrote:
And the other part of that mafia is dealing with the sale and resale of major works of dead people as investment property.

Sounds like FZ didn't like the idea of dead peoples' work being a commodity.
Open up those vaults then, Gail.
TT

_________________
and I know, I think
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Trust"
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 11:23 am
Posts: 129
Location: Hershey, PA
deuce wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
And the other part of that mafia is dealing with the sale and resale of major works of dead people as investment property.

Sounds like FZ didn't like the idea of dead peoples' work being a commodity.
Open up those vaults then, Gail.
TT


Open those bastards WIDE too !,


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Trust"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:32 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:01 am
Posts: 1278
Location: Bordeaux, France
profusion wrote:
Re: audio quality. Since most of what we're likely to get from the ZFT from now on is "guerrilla audio," the sound quality is less important than it was before. Obviously, Roxy would be an exception, as would live releases of the '80s bands that were recorded at studio quality.

Yes, unfortunately. I'd even go as far as saying that other than the remaining Synclavier pieces, there are probably not alot of "WOW! HOLY SHIT!" products left in the vault anyway. Getting past 100 could be more difficult than they thought.

Hope i'm wrong.

_________________
"You can fly like a Penguin when you're dealing with Turkeys."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "The Trust"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 5917
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!

          The perfect #100 = Dance Me This!!

                  Bashes head on the wall yet one more time.

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: "the trust"
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 7021
Location: exile
polydigm wrote:

          The perfect #100 = Dance Me This!!

                  Bashes head on the wall yet one more time.


                              yes!

_________________
"bit of nostalgia for the old folks."


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 98 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: pbuzby and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group