Zappa.com

The Official Frank Zappa Messageboards
It is currently Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:11 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:03 pm
Posts: 5907
Location: Pouting for you? Punky Meadows, pouting for you?!!
Before everyone goes all what the hell about yet another RBP thread: Yes, there are many others, but they're about it coming, about delays, about whinging, about bitterness, about many other feelings and about all sorts of stuff all over the place. I would like a thread that just discusses the music on the release itself.

This CD is simply the best ZFT release ever. I've listened to it several times right through already. Last night, locked away in my studio with my brother, with some potato crisps and a nice cold beer, I sat through it in its entirety once more, through good quality monitors up fairly loud. It was amazing - way beyond my expectations. I've been waiting for this experience for well over thirty years and if it ever occurs to me that I should share my dismay about having to wait that long I'll do it in another thread.

Ruth's liner notes are top notch, she's a good writer. I'll have more to say about the music myself later.

And, just in case I sound a little evangelistic, I'm not expecting that only people who agree with me should comment in this thread. Whatever your reviews or thoughts are about the music, post them here. But, please don't bang on about the politics of its delays or whatever else. There are plenty of other threads to do that in. Let's just talk about the music on this great release and how it measures up as a listening experience.

_________________
The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:00 pm
Posts: 58
polydigm wrote:
Before everyone goes all what the hell about yet another RBP thread: Yes, there are many others, but they're about it coming, about delays, about whinging, about bitterness, about many other feelings and about all sorts of stuff all over the place. I would like a thread that just discusses the music on the release itself.

This CD is simply the best ZFT release ever. I've listened to it several times right through already. Last night, locked away in my studio with my brother, with some potato crisps and a nice cold beer, I sat through it in its entirety once more, through good quality monitors up fairly loud. It was amazing - way beyond my expectations. I've been waiting for this experience for well over thirty years and if it ever occurs to me that I should share my dismay about having to wait that long I'll do it in another thread.

Ruth's liner notes are top notch, she's a good writer. I'll have more to say about the music myself later.

And, just in case I sound a little evangelistic, I'm not expecting that only people who agree with me should comment in this thread. Whatever your reviews or thoughts are about the music, post them here. But, please don't bang on about the politics of its delays or whatever else. There are plenty of other threads to do that in. Let's just talk about the music on this great release and how it measures up as a listening experience.


I was actually waiting to see what people thought of it before I purchased. Since I know you and I have have pretty much the same sweet spot with regard to which FZ era we prefer, your comments confirmed the "buy" for me. Yeah it's a stunner and it definitely has me craving more.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:41 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:48 am
Posts: 6213
Location: Your Mom's Box
Val Valentin wrote:
polydigm wrote:
Before everyone goes all what the hell about yet another RBP thread: Yes, there are many others, but they're about it coming, about delays, about whinging, about bitterness, about many other feelings and about all sorts of stuff all over the place. I would like a thread that just discusses the music on the release itself.

This CD is simply the best ZFT release ever. I've listened to it several times right through already. Last night, locked away in my studio with my brother, with some potato crisps and a nice cold beer, I sat through it in its entirety once more, through good quality monitors up fairly loud. It was amazing - way beyond my expectations. I've been waiting for this experience for well over thirty years and if it ever occurs to me that I should share my dismay about having to wait that long I'll do it in another thread.

Ruth's liner notes are top notch, she's a good writer. I'll have more to say about the music myself later.

And, just in case I sound a little evangelistic, I'm not expecting that only people who agree with me should comment in this thread. Whatever your reviews or thoughts are about the music, post them here. But, please don't bang on about the politics of its delays or whatever else. There are plenty of other threads to do that in. Let's just talk about the music on this great release and how it measures up as a listening experience.


I was actually waiting to see what people thought of it before I purchased.


dumb

_________________
Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:41 am
Posts: 419
Location: Centerville, Norway
jaypfunk wrote:
Val Valentin wrote:
polydigm wrote:
Before everyone goes all what the hell about yet another RBP thread: Yes, there are many others, but they're about it coming, about delays, about whinging, about bitterness, about many other feelings and about all sorts of stuff all over the place. I would like a thread that just discusses the music on the release itself.

This CD is simply the best ZFT release ever. I've listened to it several times right through already. Last night, locked away in my studio with my brother, with some potato crisps and a nice cold beer, I sat through it in its entirety once more, through good quality monitors up fairly loud. It was amazing - way beyond my expectations. I've been waiting for this experience for well over thirty years and if it ever occurs to me that I should share my dismay about having to wait that long I'll do it in another thread.

Ruth's liner notes are top notch, she's a good writer. I'll have more to say about the music myself later.

And, just in case I sound a little evangelistic, I'm not expecting that only people who agree with me should comment in this thread. Whatever your reviews or thoughts are about the music, post them here. But, please don't bang on about the politics of its delays or whatever else. There are plenty of other threads to do that in. Let's just talk about the music on this great release and how it measures up as a listening experience.


I was actually waiting to see what people thought of it before I purchased.


dumb


Asshole.

_________________
If I'm not alone... How long have I been asleep?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:22 pm
Posts: 1074
Location: Huntingdon, TN
Typical jaypfunk reply. :roll:

I have to be honest with you guys. I've been receiving so many of these releases, that they are rather hard to process all at once. I really love Roxy By Proxy, but I'm also partial to several other recent releases. Still haven't made up my mind on order of favoritism, but Roxy By Proxy will be near the top.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:29 pm
Posts: 1195
Location: south midlands, UK
Just the one listen so far - great.
Only 'criticism' is murphys vocals sound a bit rough on village of the sun compared to R&E.
I might be wrong but I dont think any of it is on R&E.
TT

_________________
and I know, I think
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:33 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:48 am
Posts: 6213
Location: Your Mom's Box
Fuck all them bloggers with the mouse in their hand.

_________________
Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:29 pm
Posts: 1195
Location: south midlands, UK
Yeah, fuck em all!
TT

_________________
and I know, I think
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 2954
Location: Between the Badges
Inca...
First off, I'll admit I've been sick of Inca for years. Not so sick as to ever turn it off if it comes up on a playlist, but with all the versions as well as the solos that have been distributed through the various albums (donlope has 18 separate official album credits) it hadn't ever been missed enough to be sought after. If I have a boot with the lounge version, it must be crappy sounding because I don't remember hearing the lounge version like this before and I'm liking it a lot.
George... love hearing him, probably the alumni that I would most like to hear more of on future releases, although with this release, the Movie(?) and RT2 that's probably a long shot. He gets the 1st solo and keeps it funky, not stretching too much.
Bruce - I'm not a big fan of trombone solos in general, but he's sounding good, searching, not really settling into anything. Not bad, but not great.
As with much of this album, the star is Ruth. Nice touches throughout. I am curious about the mix for the mallets, which are constantly moving back and forth from one speaker to another. Does anyone know if it was recorded that way? If it was, I guess there isn't much I can complain about. If it wasn't, my vote would have been to not mix it that way as it is distracting when wearing headphones. I love stereo effects, but this sounds aimless as though large percussion instruments are floating across the stage on strings like a high school play, kinda destroys any ambience created by the rest of the mix.

_________________
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Don't Be Stupid Unless You Want To


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:07 am
Posts: 1522
Like:

Inca Roads - finally a missing link between The Lost Episodes and OSFA versions. Duke and Fowler play great solos.
Cheepnis Percussion - the percussionists play the song real fast. Cheepnis proper is slower than that.
King/Chunga's/Genes medley - thank fuck "Son of MrGG" itself was omitted from the start, Napoleon would've otherwise got a fairly terrible sax solo. Maybe a full Genes/Kong/Chunga with Ian soloing will be released in the future. These fuckers really play the King Kong theme at double speed of the original or something! And the funk-out at the solo section is so propulsive as to put the likes of Red Hot Chili Peppers into shame!
Dupree's - A nice condensed version of the madness, for more of a sprawl, see 1973-11-18 Waterloo "Dupree's". Love Tom's "Montana" insertion. A very good version even sans a trombone solo.

Sort of okay:

Penguin/T'Mershi/Dog/Meat/RDNZL - it's really hard to beat the near infallible Penguin/Ex4/Dog/Meat/RDNZL medley on "Road Tapes 2". "Dog Breath Variations" basically sounds like a "Helsinki"-fied, Bob Stone'ified mix of the very tune you can hear in a much warmer and more evocative sound on bootlegs such as "Rondo Hatton Band". "RDNZL" has a nice relaxed guitar solo, but "RTV2" version still is unbeatable in its intensity. But it's historical: a) the last ever performance in the style of "The Lost Episodes", more or less b) the last time you can hear the saxophone playing the same harmonic part in Theme C (see RDNZL table on IINK) that Ian did. Next year, every instrument would play unison, no more lush harmonies from here out.

Village/Echidna/Wash - Well, for one, Roxy versions are damn near perfect as they are. For two, "Road Tapes 2" has got Version 1 of "VOTS", plus "Echidna's" benefitting from JLP's violin (and Ian's bass clarinet and synthesiser parts), as well as more interesting solos on "Wash". However, it is nice to hear the tricky closing section of "Echidna". You can actually hear that Bruce made an earnest attempt at playing the hard parts and I guess he didn't falter too much, if at all (unless someone else has heard mistakes). When Jaypfunk says that the Helsinki band played these songs too fucking fast, then I do agree: it was a mistake to speed up "Echidna's" and render its closing section out of playable reach for both guitar and trombone.

Don't really like:

Frank's guitar tone. It can be simultaneously a bit too obtrusive (see the "aggressive" rhythm guitar under Theme C of RDNZL) as well as a bit wimpy (see the trite feedback tone mostly rearing its head at "Dupree's"). I still maintain the Euro tour was Frank's definitive tour as the guitarist in 1973.

_________________
Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:08 am 
Online

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:55 am
Posts: 1193
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
As with much of this album, the star is Ruth. Nice touches throughout. I am curious about the mix for the mallets, which are constantly moving back and forth from one speaker to another. Does anyone know if it was recorded that way? If it was, I guess there isn't much I can complain about. If it wasn't, my vote would have been to not mix it that way as it is distracting when wearing headphones. I love stereo effects, but this sounds aimless as though large percussion instruments are floating across the stage on strings like a high school play, kinda destroys any ambience created by the rest of the mix.


It is a mixing effect FZ and Bob Stone seem to have favored at the time for some reason. You can also hear it on the keyboards on Guitar and other CDs from those days.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:15 am
Posts: 1321
Location: Croatia, Europe
I am totally blown away with this release. Is it my favorite ZFT release? not really, just because I prefer alternative versions and unreleased songs, but Proxy has some of that too, so I am very very pleased with it. Top 5 of ZFT fo'sure!

I just looove that inca roads intro, cheepnis percussion version is great, T'Mershi Duween is a killer and I am very pleased with duprees paradise since it doesnt have that spoken part when I usually fell a sleep.

on the other hand I am kinda disappointed with king kong. must be that I'm so used to other versions, so this one didnt appealed me enough...

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:18 pm
Posts: 2954
Location: Between the Badges
pbuzby wrote:
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
As with much of this album, the star is Ruth. Nice touches throughout. I am curious about the mix for the mallets, which are constantly moving back and forth from one speaker to another. Does anyone know if it was recorded that way? If it was, I guess there isn't much I can complain about. If it wasn't, my vote would have been to not mix it that way as it is distracting when wearing headphones. I love stereo effects, but this sounds aimless as though large percussion instruments are floating across the stage on strings like a high school play, kinda destroys any ambience created by the rest of the mix.


It is a mixing effect FZ and Bob Stone seem to have favored at the time for some reason. You can also hear it on the keyboards on Guitar and other CDs from those days.
Thanks for responding pbuzby. Maybe I'm missing something, but nothing on Guitar is from that era. I don't have my cd on me right now, but I am assuming that you are saying that this would have been a mix done in the 80's, not that Ruth's basic tracks have panning fx on them? Clearly, I don't have all the info straight on the order of operations with this project.

_________________
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Don't Be Stupid Unless You Want To


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:39 pm 
Online

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:55 am
Posts: 1193
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
pbuzby wrote:
The Forum Killed Arkay wrote:
As with much of this album, the star is Ruth. Nice touches throughout. I am curious about the mix for the mallets, which are constantly moving back and forth from one speaker to another. Does anyone know if it was recorded that way? If it was, I guess there isn't much I can complain about. If it wasn't, my vote would have been to not mix it that way as it is distracting when wearing headphones. I love stereo effects, but this sounds aimless as though large percussion instruments are floating across the stage on strings like a high school play, kinda destroys any ambience created by the rest of the mix.


It is a mixing effect FZ and Bob Stone seem to have favored at the time for some reason. You can also hear it on the keyboards on Guitar and other CDs from those days.
Thanks for responding pbuzby. Maybe I'm missing something, but nothing on Guitar is from that era. I don't have my cd on me right now, but I am assuming that you are saying that this would have been a mix done in the 80's, not that Ruth's basic tracks have panning fx on them? Clearly, I don't have all the info straight on the order of operations with this project.


Yes, Roxy By Proxy was mixed in 1987.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 7:28 am
Posts: 562
Location: E.U.
well it's my personal opinion : Mothers Of Invention, early re-generation with Chester Thompson, Ruth Underwood, Bruce Folwer, Napoleon Murphy Brock and George Duke as super musicians guests are very Zappatesque. Music inside Roxy By Proxy isn't Jazz Music but Frank Zappa compositions applied with a band on stage playing layer. Inca Roads, recorded in studio in '75, open the recording session for 75:49 mins.
It's a little bit different recording than others. Not a '88 big band, Music seems to be simplier than that I listened to FZ. This album could be a pre-requel of "Roxy And Elsewhere", an early recorded session. Listening to a previously unlistened Frank Zappa's solo is good for the mental health, the :arrow: memory identity.
There isn't nowadays a Music compositor such Frank Zappa, so if you don't get Music with this album where will you could to find Music? I listen to recent Music, electronics stuff, the difference is Frank Zappa wrote by clearly his Music, it's major intellectual way.
Thanks for reading.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:15 am
Posts: 1321
Location: Croatia, Europe
nico wrote:
There isn't nowadays a Music compositor such Frank Zappa, so if you don't get Music with this album where will you could to find Music? I listen to recent Music, electronics stuff, the difference is Frank Zappa wrote by clearly his Music, it's major intellectual way.
Thanks for reading.


omar rodriguez lopez
compositor, multi-instrumentalist, movie director & actor, so far released more than 30 solo albums, and around 20 albums in various groups... I find him as a modern age reincarnation of frank. he is so talented and such a workaholic doing multiple things at the same time, while writing the music for all of his recent projects and conducting up to 8 piece rock combo groups.

I agree that most of the "musicians" today try to adopt electronic music in their sound and rarely few of them are doing it in a good way.
Jesus, even Frusciante can't make a decent drum-machine based record (check his new LP Enclosure), so who can?!

any recommendations?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 3:45 am
Posts: 9260
Location: EINDHOVEN
Good or not I'm not sure, but considering her unsigned debut album topped the Dutch charts longer than any other album before her (beating the record set by Michael Jackson's Thriller, and Jacko had to die in order to get that), give Caro Emerald a go.

_________________
Image
Join the PackardGoose forum! Send me a PM!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:29 pm
Posts: 1195
Location: south midlands, UK
Interesting to note that cheepnis is actually called "more cheepnis please".
TT

_________________
and I know, I think
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 11:37 am
Posts: 500
I am torn between wanting much more Frank guitar solos and NOT having so much Frank guitar solos!
Something that is glaringly obvious on this release yet strangely welcoming...know what I mean?

I think my favourite KING KONG is from the "can't do that on stage" series volume 3.
The Roxy one is ...............meh.............

LOVE LOVE LOVE the lounge Inca....

Now bring on a full BONGO FURY show!!!!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:50 am
Posts: 253
Location: London
Flea wrote:
nico wrote:
There isn't nowadays a Music compositor such Frank Zappa, so if you don't get Music with this album where will you could to find Music? I listen to recent Music, electronics stuff, the difference is Frank Zappa wrote by clearly his Music, it's major intellectual way.
Thanks for reading.


omar rodriguez lopez
compositor, multi-instrumentalist, movie director & actor, so far released more than 30 solo albums, and around 20 albums in various groups... I find him as a modern age reincarnation of frank. he is so talented and such a workaholic doing multiple things at the same time, while writing the music for all of his recent projects and conducting up to 8 piece rock combo groups.

I agree that most of the "musicians" today try to adopt electronic music in their sound and rarely few of them are doing it in a good way.
Jesus, even Frusciante can't make a decent drum-machine based record (check his new LP Enclosure), so who can?!

any recommendations?


Thanks for this, this is great stuff, not as composed as Zappa, but still some good shit going on here..

_________________
http://www.facebook.com/hakantunamusic


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:27 am
Posts: 6
Flea wrote:
any recommendations?


https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/gleek ... d551957525

Red-State-Bureaucrat-Debut-Falls-On-Deaf-Ears


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:27 am
Posts: 6
Flea wrote:
any recommendations?


If you like jazz, try:

Gutbucket: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQOB9BR ... AC72835C46

Chris Potter Underground: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si-7m7u84Do


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 7:57 am
Posts: 176
Location: Nowhere,Nowhere
Just got it, listening to it for the first time; I am happy I have it. Thx ZFT.

_________________
The Sound of the BuffaloVoice (((((o)))))


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 19, 2002 10:51 pm
Posts: 2341
Location: Europe
This release, together with Helsinki 73, confirms to my ears that this era is the peak of Zappa (72-74). And that says quite a lot (I don't dislike any periods.)

Apart from a lot of pleasant surprises (even for an old tape trader), I think these releases stands out in a way I have never considered before: Zappa is playing along in many of the intricate parts of the arrangements, which give them a distinctive sound that the presence of no other stunt guitarist have been able to deliver. I always went for his solos, and never realized how much he actually plays in the arrangements (something he definitely stopped doing not long after). But this comes out clearly in these releases, and let's face it: Only Zappa can play Zappa!

Had Roxy by Proxy come out in the 1970s the drum version of Cheepnis would by now have been sampled a zillion times. What a groove!!!!!

Love this release.

_________________
"Everybody in this room is wearing a uniform, and don't kid yourself" - FZ
http://www.myspace.com/kirnehness


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:08 pm
Posts: 136
Frank is actually the most disappointing part of this release, his tone is just weak. I vastly prefer the road tapes concert from earlier in the year.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BRAVO SIERRA, jaypfunk, NuclearProstate, Opus131, pbuzby and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group