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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:49 am 
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I dont like shredders generally (I dont class FZ as a shredder) and none of the 'stunt' solos are offensive, but none really do anything for me.
You are in control (logistics aside) - vai or vaughan / cuccurrollo or cray...
etc
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:50 am 
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They are there to perform near impossible parts to the best of their ability.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:44 pm 
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I understand Deuce, I don't like them either... Music is about how it sounds, not about the philosophical idea or about how fast you can wring that neck.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:07 pm 
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Did someone say stunt guitar? 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:01 pm 
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"Well you put me up against Steve Vai in terms of technical ability, he will blow me away. But I’ll take the Pepsi challenge with songwriting against Steve any day. I think I’m a hundred times more interesting than him in terms of coming up with interesting records. I saw Steve Vai play with Frank Zappa in the early 1980’s, he was fucking amazing, but he’s playing exactly what Frank wants him to play. Put him in that situation and he will bury you. If you ask him to write you an album, I mean Kurt Cobain would have stomped his ass. Ultimately being a phenomenal technical guitarist is worthless unless you’re a hired gun, which is where Vai’s strengths lie. I never took guitar lessons; I don’t know how to read music." - Buzz Osborne(Melvins)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:06 pm 
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I don't know what happened to my reply...

But I think you should relisten to Cuccurrulo solos. One of them is on 'Andy' and is note-for-note (with minor deviations) the "studio" solo Frank performed from OSFA and 'Cosmik Debris' during which he plays some very creative solos in my opinion.

Also not quite a stunt guitarist but the few solos Jeff Simmons got in 1974 are pretty incredible.

But yeah, otherwise, weedly-wee solos are lame as hell.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:15 pm 
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Not a big fan of Vai's solos but the instrumentals the band with Vai played (Drowning Witch/Baltimore/Moggio, Alien Orifice, Sinister Footwear) are some of my favorite Zappa music.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:19 am 
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Any suggestion to shows where these solos can be heard?

I have often wished that there was some kind of 'awesome solos by band members' compilation somewhere. Does this exist to anybody's knowledge?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:40 am 
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richieG wrote:
Any suggestion to shows where these solos can be heard?

I have often wished that there was some kind of 'awesome solos by band members' compilation somewhere. Does this exist to anybody's knowledge?

Good point - my way of thinking is if its down in the mix, quite short, too much fuzz / whammy, too many notes / harmonics - its stunt.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:03 am 
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And Playing Complex Passages Solos that sound on par with what was done it Studio's something FZ did not.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:04 am 
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richieG wrote:
Any suggestion to shows where these solos can be heard?

I have often wished that there was some kind of 'awesome solos by band members' compilation somewhere. Does this exist to anybody's knowledge?


As far as Vai he had a brief solo in "Dead Girls Of London" in 1980, and a longer one in "Stevie's Spanking" (both by himself and in a duet with Zappa) in 1981 and 2.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:24 am 
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How about this kind of stunt guitarist?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgqP2xiGSIA

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:20 pm 
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I can appreciate the whiz-banginess of a very technical and very fast guitarist. I really like Petrucci. But I'm more of a "does it fit the song or is it just showing off?" kind of person.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:42 pm 
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richieG wrote:
Any suggestion to shows where these solos can be heard?

I have often wished that there was some kind of 'awesome solos by band members' compilation somewhere. Does this exist to anybody's knowledge?


Do you use zappateers?

If so, Jeff Simmons has some killer guitar work on Duprees in http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=21137 and http://www.zappateers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=25631 has some sweet jazzy-parody playing during Cocktail lounge music bits. Also, in the first show there, "Andy" (called something/anything in that show, with slightly different lyrics) has a Simmons guitar-intro riff, missing from all subsequent lineups/versions of this tune. Let me just say, it has ruined all other versions. The intro sounds empty without it to me now.

Any '79 show is going to have a largely similar set list (also known as the best setlist ever). So assume WC has a solo on Cosmik Debris and Andy.

I know there is a "Shutup and Play Yer Guitar" style comp of Tommy Solos floating around (or so I've heard, never heard it myself)

I also like Keneally solos from 88 when not playing to Stairway to Heaven (and ending up wheedly-weeing, parody or not, it's annoying)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:48 pm 
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Mother fucking Keneally is a hero of mine, Vai too. I love that shit. It comes in like a bolt of lightning and lifts the main song up. I enjoy the guitar work. But I like stuff like Megadeth/Bodom and are into shredding.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:44 am 
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NuclearProstate wrote:
Mother fucking Keneally is a hero of mine, Vai too. I love that shit. It comes in like a bolt of lightning and lifts the main song up. I enjoy the guitar work. But I like stuff like Megadeth/Bodom and are into shredding.

I love Keneally and Vai too. Shredding for shredding's sake is almost as boring as a cliched blues player (and I like me some good blues) but Keneally and Vai are both great in an overall creative sense and are composers of a high order IMO. In general I'll usually go with an accomplished musician with an original voice over a hack musician with acn original voice.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:14 am 
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Original voice. I like that.
You cover many of my fav topics. I worked at Buddy Guy's Legends, a blues bar in Chicago, during the early 90s. What other kind of venue gives you a list of 10 or so songs that are almost guaranteed to be heard from every night? I still can hardly stand to hear Sweet Home Chicago or The Blues is Alright and keep me a fuckin' mile from Koko Taylor's God Damn Wang Dang Doodle! :)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:50 pm 
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Original voice-outdated Originality';#[#'#[;'[=stunt guitarist :shock:

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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2014 1:43 pm 
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Mr. Nice Guy wrote:
Did someone say stunt guitar? 8)

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Not 'arf lad

Not 'arf!

Shredders RULE.....................!






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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 7:21 am 
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BBP wrote:
I understand Deuce, I don't like them either... Music is about how it sounds, not about the philosophical idea or about how fast you can wring that neck.


The stunt parts aren't always about 'speed' and are rarely about speed for speed's sake. You know full well that some parts are just difficult to play. Big stretches, odd fingered chords, coupled with strange rhythms and syncopations. Those guys can play that stuff more than competently. Of course they can 'shred' , but that's a different conversation.


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 7:44 pm 
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People always say a guitar solo should fit the song. I don't even know what that means. How is that determined and what are the criteria for "fitting the song?" Does that mean a slow song should have a slow solo? Or that using the wrong effect would ruin the song? Does going "outside" ruin a song? It just seems so subjective.

I use the stunt guitar listening test. If it's live I close my eyes and listen to the notes the guitarist's playing. Example: I just laugh when I see Vai play because his schtik is just so cliched. It ruins it for me. But if I close my eyes and just let the solo come to me I often like it very much.

No rules. if you like it, it's good.

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 8:09 pm 
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^There is playing scales in a given key.....
and then there is actually listening to the other players (and the song itself) and fitting in with that in an imaginative and selfless way.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:43 am 
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The stunt guitarists rarely got a chance to 'solo' in an improvisational sense. Their role wasn't to solo. It was to play the parts FZ couldn't.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:59 am 
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I think its also to do with what frank 'liked' or maybe even 'coveted'.
In that interview I posted a few months back, the interviewer was saying "what do you think of hendrix / clapton / gallagher / green / blackmore", and FZ wasn't complimentary. The interviewer then almost jokingly asked him about eddie van halen, and FZ was "oh eddie is a great guitarist". It surprised me, cos for all his skills, I never listen to van halen or anything like it - its wanky "heavy metal with glitter on"...
Of all the musicians he had, the stunt guitarists seem the most tacked on.
I love system of a down - no stunt guitars. I used to like sepultura a lot - if most of the shred solos weren't there, I'd probably like them even more. I love nirvana - no solos of note. I do love 'good' guitar solos - hendrix / gallagher / green... and pretty much all of FZs.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:14 am 
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I've read comments from FZ that Dweezil was a big fan of Randy Rhoads and Eddie Van Halen so this may have made FZ more inclined to make positive comments about that wave of guitarists.


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