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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:08 pm 
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Or is it a staff fold-down?

And/or/if so/notwithstanding, is the vinyl worth it?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:45 pm 
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According to reports I've read the mono Freak Out is a dedicated mix, but with few notable variations.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:05 pm 
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i have the mono LP of FO. i prefer it to the stereo version and especially prefer it to the FZs lousy 80s digi remix.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:29 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
i have the mono LP of FO.
i prefer it to the stereo version
and especially prefer it to the
FZs lousy 80s digi remix.


JAYPFUNK's LOUSY COMMENT

You really seem to come here and black and white with absolutely no regards
to technology at a given time. If Jersey Joker cares to backpedal he can see why your choice
of LOUSY verbiage wrapped in nothingness is what I really question.
Usage of the verb LOUSY is outright unethical especially as to when you give nothing more than
some black and white opinion wrapped in as I said "nothingness".

When FZ got the masters back I think one of his goals was achieving the best dynamics possible
with what the source allowed. Remastering, applying overdubs and using Lexicon Digital Reverb
gave such but the early 80s was the early 80s and digital technology and mastering had severe limitations
as compared to what digital technology offers today. Even if dynamics were increased the density was still cold
so early vinyl obviously had a big warmth advantage.

At this point the first CD masters are what most probably listen to more so than
even spinning Old Masters vinyl released April 1985 which notably was a little better of warmth
compared to playback of the first RYKO CD.
Vinyl as a format has some basic wonderful anomalies even when talking of early 80s remixes
but even if we talk of a mono master what FZ could have achieved in mastering
for Vinyl or CD in the early 80s or what can be done today with a mono master it is really quite different.
I enjoy MONO mixes but I feel fortunate that FZ made several mixes and mastering of these projects all for a variety of formats that we can all enjoy.
Minimally I think each mix and format changes with listening environment.
For example MONO sounds very interesting in small environments but I just
don't think MONO is best suited running reference on a 140 wpc large speaker environment.

Yes I realize you are talking of an original mono LP from over 40 years ago but to just come here
and make a black and white statement and not articulate anything at all regarding FZs process
and why he did what he did at a given period just lacks any educated critical ethic when speaking of his work.

YES I to like the old mono mixes MOFO...........................

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

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April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:02 am, edited 14 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:19 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
i have the mono LP of FO.
i prefer it to the stereo version
and especially prefer it to the FZs lousy 80s digi remix.

You really seem to come here and black and white with absolutely no regards
to technology at a given time.

When FZ got the masters back I think one of his goals was achieving the best dynamics possible
with what the source allowed. Remastering, applying overdubs and using Lexicon Digital Reverb
gave such but the early 80s was the early 80s and digital technology and mastering had severe limitations
as compared to what digital technology offers today. Even if dynamics were increased the density was still cold
so early vinyl obviously had a big warmth advantage.

At this point the first CD masters are what most probably listen to more so than
even spinning Old Maters vinyl which notably was a little better of warmth because of the basic formats wonderful anomalies
but even if we talk of a mono master what FZ could have achieved in mastering
for Vinyl or CD in the early 80s or what can be done today with a mono master it is really quite different.

Yes I realize you are talking of an original mono LP from over 40 years ago but to just come here
and make a black and white statement and not articulate anything at all regarding FZs process
and why he did what he did at a given period just lacks any educated critical ethic when speaking of his work.

YES I to like the old mono mixes MOFO...........................


What the hell was all THAT about? Jaypfunk just said he likes the Mono mix over the stereo and the 80's digital remix. You can't state what mix you prefer without elaborating on current technology, or Frank's processes, or blah blah blah??

I really don't get what that diatribe was all about. You might want to chill out, Lord God King Bu-Fu. :mrgreen:

Peace.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:06 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
i have the mono LP of FO.
i prefer it to the stereo version
and especially prefer it to the
FZs lousy 80s digi remix.


JAYPFUNK's LOUSY COMMENT

You really seem to come here and black and white with absolutely no regards
to technology at a given time. If Jersey Joker cares to backpedal he can see why your choice
of LOUSY verbiage wrapped in nothingness is what I really question.
Usage of the verb LOUSY is outright unethical especially as to when you give nothing more than
some black and white opinion wrapped in as I said "nothingness".

When FZ got the masters back I think one of his goals was achieving the best dynamics possible
with what the source allowed. Remastering, applying overdubs and using Lexicon Digital Reverb
gave such but the early 80s was the early 80s and digital technology and mastering had severe limitations
as compared to what digital technology offers today. Even if dynamics were increased the density was still cold
so early vinyl obviously had a big warmth advantage.

At this point the first CD masters are what most probably listen to more so than
even spinning Old Masters vinyl released April 1985 which notably was a little better of warmth
compared to playback of the first RYKO CD.
Vinyl as a format has some basic wonderful anomalies even when talking of early 80s remixes
but even if we talk of a mono master what FZ could have achieved in mastering
for Vinyl or CD in the early 80s or what can be done today with a mono master it is really quite different.
I enjoy MONO mixes but I feel fortunate that FZ made several mixes and mastering of these projects all for a variety of formats that we can all enjoy.
Minimally I think each mix and format changes with listening environment.
For example MONO sounds very interesting in small environments but I just
don't think MONO is best suited running reference on a 140 wpc large speaker environment.

Yes I realize you are talking of an original mono LP from over 40 years ago but to just come here
and make a black and white statement and not articulate anything at all regarding FZs process
and why he did what he did at a given period just lacks any educated critical ethic when speaking of his work.

YES I to like the old mono mixes MOFO...........................


Trendy,

Edited 14 times??

I don't mean to jump on any bandwagon to pummel Trendmonger, but I notice there are a LOT of forum members here who don't even want to bother to read what you post. I never noticed WHY -- I suppose I wasn't looking too hard -- but I'm beginning to see that you seem to make ambiguous statements that consistently require multiple clarifications -- which only serve to further confuse whatever issue is being discussed. It gets tiresome and makes people sleepy. Or maybe there's a pomposity that you excrete along with your point, that turns people off.

Perhaps you should take a moment and try and figure out exactly what it is you want to say, BEFORE you go posting it. And maybe use smaller words, too -- sometimes you don't need to use elaborate phrasing to make your point.

Case in point: the term "Backpedal" doesn't seem appropriate. Backpedalling implies that I'm waffling on a point that I made -- which is clearly NOT the case, because I only made one statement (so far ... well, now I'm making a second statement ... but I'm not WAFFLING...)

I don't know, sometimes I just get tired of ya, honey ... it's ... ahh ... it's your hair spray, or something ....


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:14 am 
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JerseyJoker wrote:

Trendy,

Edited 14 times??

I don't mean to jump on any bandwagon to pummel Trendmonger, but I notice there are a LOT of forum members here who don't even want to bother to read what you post. I never noticed WHY -- I suppose I wasn't looking too hard -- but I'm beginning to see that you seem to make ambiguous statements that consistently require multiple clarifications -- which only serve to further confuse whatever issue is being discussed. It gets tiresome and makes people sleepy. Or maybe there's a pomposity that you excrete along with your point, that turns people off.

Perhaps you should take a moment and try and figure out exactly what it is you want to say, BEFORE you go posting it. And maybe use smaller words, too -- sometimes you don't need to use elaborate phrasing to make your point.

Case in point: the term "Backpedal" doesn't seem appropriate. Backpedalling implies that I'm waffling on a point that I made -- which is clearly NOT the case, because I only made one statement (so far ... well, now I'm making a second statement ... but I'm not WAFFLING...)

I don't know, sometimes I just get tired of ya, honey ... it's ... ahh ... it's your hair spray, or something ....


Or maybe a user comes along and easily misses what is being said.
Like where you ???? my commentary before the first edit when JayP stated LOUSY.
I guess some just think it's OK to have all that LOUSY NOTHINGNESS.
Do some even see it as they write it or read it

Yes it is true I am king of the EDIT.
Heard I even got a 2008 Frankie award for good use of it but it is more n the sense of grammar corrections and
adding commentary that answers some basic user follow up.
In respect to that I just don't like all these nested
threads where I even made mention for you to backpedal.

The same basic premise always remains in tact.
Edits are minor clarifications and grammar corrections.
The EDITS are ever so more friendly than 20 additional nested grammar corrections
or articulations on the same basic comment.
Then again one can always FOE Trendmonger.

_________________
Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:29 am 
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Trendmonger wrote:
JerseyJoker wrote:

Trendy,

Edited 14 times??

I don't mean to jump on any bandwagon to pummel Trendmonger, but I notice there are a LOT of forum members here who don't even want to bother to read what you post. I never noticed WHY -- I suppose I wasn't looking too hard -- but I'm beginning to see that you seem to make ambiguous statements that consistently require multiple clarifications -- which only serve to further confuse whatever issue is being discussed. It gets tiresome and makes people sleepy. Or maybe there's a pomposity that you excrete along with your point, that turns people off.

Perhaps you should take a moment and try and figure out exactly what it is you want to say, BEFORE you go posting it. And maybe use smaller words, too -- sometimes you don't need to use elaborate phrasing to make your point.

Case in point: the term "Backpedal" doesn't seem appropriate. Backpedalling implies that I'm waffling on a point that I made -- which is clearly NOT the case, because I only made one statement (so far ... well, now I'm making a second statement ... but I'm not WAFFLING...)

I don't know, sometimes I just get tired of ya, honey ... it's ... ahh ... it's your hair spray, or something ....


Or maybe a user comes along and easily misses what is being said.
Like where you ???? my commentary before the first edit when JayP stated LOUSY.
I guess some just think it's OK to have all that LOUSY NOTHINGNESS.
Do some even see it as they write it or read it

Yes it is true I am king of the EDIT.
Heard I even got a 2008 Frankie award for good use of it but it is more n the sense of grammar corrections and
adding commentary that answers some basic user follow up. In respect to that I just don't like all these nested
threads where I even made mention for you to backpedal.

The same basic premise always remains in tact.
Edits are minor clarifications and grammar corrections.
The EDITS are ever so more friendly than 20 additional nested grammar corrections
or articulations on the same basic comment.
Then again one can always FOE Trendmonger.


Maybe you're right about using edits for grammatical corrections, or to clarify a point -- but sometimes maybe it changes what was "initially stated" -- and then when someone comes along and reads the 14th edit (without having read the FIRST post) ... well, I suppose you're right, then maybe I'm easily missing what is being said.

Or maybe it's EASY to miss what is being said -- when YOU'RE saying it.

With all due respect, there is a lot of NOTHINGNESS in your last statement when it came to clarifying your use of the term "Backpedal", in reference to what I said in the first place. And that, you see, is 'the crux of the Apostrophe'.

Yawn.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:20 pm 
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Trendmonger wrote:
Last edited by Trendmonger on Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:02 am, edited 14 times in total.

Wow, that's impressive. I'd be willing to bet that William Shakespeare didn't edit King Lear that much.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:48 pm 
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Trendmonger wrote:
Last edited by Trendmonger on Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:02 am, edited 14 times in total.

Gary, is this because you had to go back and forth between the Zappa Forum and Mix Magazine online archives for your info?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:08 am 
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All the Zappa Albums up until and Incuding MotherMainia Was Releasd in Strereo and mono versions.
When just about everybody had stereo record players Mono got the Boot.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:19 am 
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The Freak Out mono version can be listened to on this link:

Freak Out 2006 radio doicumentary part 1 to 4 :arrow:

http://www.hollanddoc.nl/dossiers/34266163/#

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:13 am 
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unica that's a great collection of very fine doc's there at the end of that link. All in one place.
And a fine source for the mono FO!
I'll listen to it later today.
high props!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:22 pm 
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jaypfunk wrote:
i have the mono LP of FO. i prefer it to the stereo version and especially prefer it to the FZs lousy 80s digi remix.

I agree. The original one-channel mix is sublime. 8)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:28 pm 
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Wowie Zowie. Welcome back Gary you fucking nutter.

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Trendmonger wrote:
...and but also


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 6:24 pm 
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NuclearProstate wrote:
Wowie Zowie. Welcome back Gary you fucking nutter.


You do know that was from 5 years ago? That may be too short of a time.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:34 pm 
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Yeah I didn't read the date of post. I foolishly assumed that because this thread had just shot to the top of the forum it was new. I was very very tired....

Now I feel like a fool.... :oops:

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Trendmonger wrote:
...and but also


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:36 am 
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NuclearProstate wrote:
Now I feel like a fool.... :oops:

How could you be, as such?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:00 am 
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calvin2hikers wrote:
NuclearProstate wrote:
Wowie Zowie. Welcome back Gary you fucking nutter.

You do know that was from 5 years ago? That may be too short of a time.

Gary's last post here (unless he edited one since out of existence) was 1st May 2014.
So 'welcome back Gary you fucking nutter' does still stand IMO. 8)
TT

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:32 am 
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Holy shit how did I ever miss this thread and not respond to Trendy's babble?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:25 am 
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Having recently acquired a mint digital transfer of the original one-channel mix mono version,
I shared it with a friend, along with this little note:

I may never listen to the stereo version again.
The mono version is so clear, balanced, and warm sounding. I love it!


His response:

Agreed. For example on Brain Police you can actually hear and understand
all the background talking, and the right elements are now forward in the
mix. I guess Tom Dowd didn't have enough experience mixing stereo. 1966 was
kind of early.


8)

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:31 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
Holy shit how did I ever miss this thread and not respond to Trendy's babble?


I'd see it as a win for you since you probably had a much better day by not seeing that horseshit.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:57 am 
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Phlakaton wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
Holy shit how did I ever miss this thread and not respond to Trendy's babble?

I'd see it as a win for you since you probably had a much better day by not seeing that horseshit.

Trendy's stink continues. Since the time this topic was recently revived, only two of the last ten posts have been on topic. The rest regard Trendmangler.

:|

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 3:47 pm 
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Well, good source from unica, all is not lost.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:08 pm 
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It can't happen here, so I'll go to the next page. 8)

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