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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2002 1:05 pm 
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Cheese-n-rice, I keep reading the "Albums" section backlog and there are all these comments about "the mix on the old LP is better" about lots of them, particularly the Lather break-out albums.<br><br>What is it about the Cd versions?  Which are definitely inferior mixes/masters?<br><br>Are there any FZ CDs that are mastered/mixed better?<br><br>I can't be the only newer fan who wants to believe the CDs are where the action is.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2002 1:50 pm 
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Some CD versions are very different from the album versions; the CD mixes often replace/reduce/increase the volume of certain instruments/noises in the mix  For example, certain CD versions of "We're Only In It For the Money" have new drum and bass tracks to replace the original bass and drum tracks and some of the songs have been sped-up or slowed-down.  <br><br>Another example is the CD version of "Hot Rats." On the vinyl version of Peaches in Regalia, when the band returns to the main theme near the end of the tune, there is a delightful piano part playing the chords on upbeats.  This part is inaudible on the CD version.  Of course, someone that is accustomed to the CD version of this same track might hear the vinyl version and think, "What's that stupid piano part on the upbeats doing detracting from the focal 'downbeat'". <br><br>The bottom line is that when one is accustomed to and loves listening to things a certain way, one can become disgruntled when one hears them a different way, especially when the goal of the CD purchase was to obtain a digital re-creation of that which was loved.<br><br>Quoth FZ:  If it sounds good to you it's bitchen; if it sounds bad to you it's shitty.<br><br>VCF

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2002 6:07 am 
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[quote author=VCF link=board=albums;num=1039561505;start=0#1 date=12/10/02 at 15:50:35]The bottom line is that when one is accustomed to and loves listening to things a certain way, one can become disgruntled when one hears them a different way, especially when the goal of the CD purchase was to obtain a digital re-creation of that which was loved.[/quote]<br><br><br>My biggest question, perhaps, is who was in charge of the remix and remaster creative decisions?  And were the decisions, on balance, good ones?  Are parts of the mix missing because of flaws in the masters or missing tapes, or are the remixes simply due to the whims of the person remixing and mastering?<br><br>


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2002 9:24 am 
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[quote author=Chris_Federico link=board=albums;num=1039561505;start=0#3 date=12/11/02 at 10:02:29]<br>Well, they all say "FZ-Approved Master," and Spence Chrislu was an extremely trusted engineer who did most of the actual physical sound-board work (as far as I know); so one can hope for the best.<br><br>CF[/quote]<br><br>Chris this is wrong. Alot of the older Rykos are the Bob Stone/FZ jobs and not done by Spence.<br><br>For all info Vinyl vs CDs go here:<br><br>http://w1.858.telia.com/~u85821131/vinylvscds/index.html<br><br>It is one of the best web pages ever!!!<br>

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2002 9:53 am 
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[quote author=Chris_Federico link=board=albums;num=1039561505;start=0#5 date=12/11/02 at 11:41:05]<br>OOPS -- I meant Bob Stone. Dammit, time for more coffee.  :)<br>Sorry about the blunder. The point stands that it was done at UMRK, which makes one hopeful that Frank had a lot of input in the mixes we're hearing today.<br>CF again[/quote]<br><br>No biggie dude! I like when we "debate" anyway! LOL<br><br>Why I love the Vinyl vs. CDs so much....<br>I really think if you look at the vinyl vs cds web page it brings alot of good points up about how FZ used way too much digi-verb on the CD mixes and toward the end when the new "FZ approved" ones came out FZ was probably too fucking sick to really care and the result was some stuff still sounding like poop. I am glad that Spence did fix TTR and YAWYI tho I still prefer the EMI CDs anyway. But that 's another endless debate.<br>

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2002 10:04 am 
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[quote author=Chris_Federico link=board=albums;num=1039561505;start=0#3 date=12/11/02 at 10:02:29]<br>The only inferior decision my ears have found on the CDs is heard at the end of "Uncle Remus" on the latest Ryko release of Apostrophe ('): I wish those nifty female voices were up a bit louder. They're more prominent on the record, and the harmonies are lovely and haunting just as the tune's fading out. (That's Tina Turner and the Ikettes, by the way!)<br>CF[/quote]<br><br>Are u talkin about the original CD mix (the turd with digi-verb), the AU20 Gold CD mix or the newer pressing that is identical to the AU20 mix but not a Gold CD?<br><br>I hate the original CD mix. It BLOWS 100,000 Greasey Devil Dicks... twice!!! Tons of digi-verb that kills the warmness of the LP. The Au20 or newer pressings that used the Au20 mix are the best choice here.<br>JP

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2002 10:24 am 
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More Apostrophe (') crap.....<br><br>ESSENTIAL VERSIONS FOR COMPLETISTS: Tricky. Something with the CD remix (old CD, Old Masters LP, or original pressing of the 1995 CD), plus something with the vinyl mix (either an LP, an Au20 CD or an old-mix pressing of 1995 CD). If you're an ultra-completist, you'll dream about The Quadraphonic copy.<br><br>In "Don't Eat The Yellow Snow", Zappa sings "Dreamed I was an Eskimo", then there is one measure (in 7/8 time) of guitar spewage, followed by the two-bar instrumental riff alone, followed by a repeat of the riff with the "doop-doop-do-do-do" vocal over it, then the next lyric line. The stereo LP (and the gold CD, which uses the original LP master) does not include the instrumental riff between the spewage and the "doop-doop" (so it's actually two bars we're talking about, unless you count the song in 7/4).<br><br>Frankie!! Where ever u be man... you still making us nuts! Forget Touring Can Make You Crazy. Collecting Frank Zappa Can Make You Crazy!!! LOL

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2002 11:41 am 
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[quote author=Chris_Federico link=board=albums;num=1039561505;start=0#9 date=12/11/02 at 12:37:32]<br>I'm talking about the regular Ryko CD that you can just commonly find at the store these days. I was comparing it to the original DiscReet vinyl album.<br><br>I'm not talking about the older Barking Pumpkin CD, but rather the latest Ryko release. It doesn't say Au20 anywhere -- does this mean it's the same as the old Barking Pumpkin CD mix?<br>CF[/quote]<br><br>There was never a Barking Pumpkin CD. Go to this page and it will explain it all.<br><br>http://w1.858.telia.com/~u85821131/vinylvscds/index.html<br>

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2002 2:58 am 
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[quote author=Man from Utopia link=board=albums;num=1039561505;start=0#12 date=12/21/02 at 20:00:33]Okay, I have a question concerning those two albums on one cd deal. Is it just my imagination, or do they have an inferior sound quality?[/quote]<br><br><br>I'm also interested, particularly since I own the double ONS/Apos disc.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 7:23 am 
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<br>Topics like this, and the frequency of replies that, yes, the LP or some obscure CD mix is vastly superior to the plain ole Rykodisc copies . . . really bums me out.<br><br>Sometimes I feel like I have no business getting into Zappa since I have no intention of chasing down obscure LPs on eBay.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 7:56 am 
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hey, m_s_m, don't give up...<br><br>you'd can find fz vinyl in used record stores: re: FZ Vinyl in Sacramento, CA  <br><br>or barfko has a good selection, from $35 a pop...Vintage Vaultage Vinyl

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 9:15 am 
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<br>Well, s.o.s., at the risk of over-stating my point, I don't really WANT to buy $35 vinyls.<br><br>I'm about at the point of wondering whether the CDs were just mixed by an idiot or mixed by sombody who didn't give a damn or perhaps the whole "LPs are better" thing is just venting by older fans who first heard the LPs in their dorm rooms at Average Midwest State Polytechnic A&M and just can't get around the fact that nothing else brings them back to that place like 12" of spinning black plastic.<br><br>Really, why do the CDs suck so much?  Who is the idiot responsible for mixing them down?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 10:21 am 
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There is a certain humaness and breathing quality about vinyl<br>that you just cant get with a c.d.<br>But then on the other hand, unless you own a decent turn table ,with a decent needle , with a decent amp , with decent speakers then you might as well stick with c.d's

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 1:31 pm 
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[quote author=Mud_Shrimp_Moe link=board=albums;num=1039561505;start=15#17 date=07/19/03 at 12:15:18]....I don't really WANT to buy $35 vinyls.<br><br>....venting by older fans who first heard the LPs in their dorm rooms ....[/quote]<br>don't blame you for not wanting the b.swill $35 vinyl...<br><br>i used to buy the lp's fresh off the rack the week they were released starting from about grand wazoo onward (before cd's were invented) and played them on a mediocre stereo, as well as cassettes i made up for the road.....<br><br>i've purchased most of the cd's because i moved across the country & have all my lp's in storage....i wasn't even aware of the cd vs. vinyl debates until i started checking out this forum...so other than major changes to the tracks (like sleep dirt), i still don't have a good grasp on the subtleties of vinyl vs cd, but consider that if you listen to something for 10, 15, 20 years & you each track like the back of your dick, any change is bound to come up as error! error! w.t.f. is goin' on here?...

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 2:37 am 
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[quote author=slime.oofytv.set link=board=albums;num=1039561505;start=15#20 date=07/19/03 at 16:31:58]i still don't have a good grasp on the subtleties of vinyl vs cd, but consider that if you listen to something for 10, 15, 20 years & you each track like the back of your dick, any change is bound to come up as error! error! w.t.f. is goin' on here?...[/quote]<br><br><br>If that's all it is, then I guess I can just ignore it I guess.<br><br>I'm 36, old enough to remember Zappa when he was alive, but I've only been into the music for a few years now so the Ryko CDs are pretty much my world.<br><br>I'm listening to Waka/Jawaka right now in fact and I like it.  But who can tell me why my CD is crap and I should buy the vinyl?  I'm all ears.<br>


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 4:49 am 
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[quote author=Mud_Shrimp_Moe link=board=albums;num=1039561505;start=15#21 date=07/20/03 at 05:37:03]<br><br><br>If that's all it is, then I guess I can just ignore it I guess.<br><br>I'm 36, old enough to remember Zappa when he was alive, but I've only been into the music for a few years now so the Ryko CDs are pretty much my world.<br><br>I'm listening to Waka/Jawaka right now in fact and I like it.  But who can tell me why my CD is crap and I should buy the vinyl?  I'm all ears.<br>[/quote]<br><br>hey msm...<br>here be an old thread about why i tink the W/J CD sucks major dog dick!!! enjoy!!!<br><br>http://www.zappa.com/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=albums;action=display;num=1033150614;start=3<br><br><br>

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 4:54 am 
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F7ck it.  That's the last Zappa CD I ever buy until somebody can remix and remaster them competently.  I'm serious.<br><br>There are more things in life than Zappa and many of them are done more competently apparently.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 5:47 am 
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The CD of Have I Offended Someone? is better than the LP. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 6:41 am 
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[quote author=Thing-Fish2003 link=board=albums;num=1039561505;start=15#24 date=07/20/03 at 08:47:24]All CD's sound better than the vinyls except "Zoot Allures," and "Sheik Yerbouti."[/quote]<br><br>I must disagree here... have u ever compared LP vs CD?? Waka definatly loses it's warm quality on the CD with all the fuckin' digi-verb that FZ did to it.<br>I hate the CD mix of this. Too much echo and reverb and that shitty ass "Stereo Wide" sound like in the boom boxes had in the early 80's (anybody remember that??) <br>It's very different from the LP mix which I prefer. <br>The original LP has so much more "air" and real feeling to it. The digital reverb FZ was fucking with at the time of remastering did not do this LP (and a few others) any good. I love the warmness of the LP. It feels like you are in the same room with the band. The CD makes U feel like you in a fuckin' hockey rink! As much as FZ always hated the sound of playing live in a shitty echo filled "hockey rink", I am really suprized that he fucked up so many of the CDs with this "Hockey Rink Reverb" as I like to call it!! hahahaha<br><br><br>

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 10:45 am 
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<br>So does Ryko just suck?<br><br>I'm asking.<br><br>Who are the other Ryko artists anyway?


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