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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:32 pm 
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I am an expert guitarist and I think ... December 16, 2003 <br>.... that soon or late someone musically schooled should tell the truth about this album and about Zappa's guitar playing in general. The man surely had charisma, he had musical visions, he was extremely intelligent and funny and I will agree with anyone who will call him a true genius. He was, absolutly, without a doubt. I like Zappa's music, I own many albums of his, and I like them mainly from the compositional standpoint. Anyway this album is more or less only about his guitar playing so it is about that craft that I would like to say something. Well folks, Zappa didn't know how to play a da#n guitar. Someone should have took away the guitar from him!! His solos are completly meaningless. They are absolutly primitive and 99% wrong ... and please don't tell me they are expressive. These solos are pure musical nonsense. Frank had a pretty primitive technique and I can't understand how a musician so prepared , an orchestra director such as he was, could accept to play in that amateur way in front of an audience and release this trash. I mean this music is horrible. His guitar playing is pure garbage. He goes out of time, none of his notes is intelligible, no line has a meaning, the solos go nowhere, his guitar sound is really bad ... unbelievable. If I had heard these solos without knowing Frank was playing I would have judged these solos as amateur level efforts from a student who may have studied maybe six months. If you don't consider the support provided by the exceptional orchestra who played behind the MAN what remains is just boring and very limited guitar solos ! This is the truth. I think that this album clarify this point without any reasonable doubt. So kind readers, if you love Zappa's music buy something more important than this release from a compositional standpoint, if you love guitar, and maybe want to learn something about it, forget this garbage. It is incredibly bad and boring guitar music. Believe me. (2stars for the good orchestra job unfortunatly not much audible under the chaos provided by the MAN). <br><br><br>I know you can't go taking everything said about Frank personally, but this one left me speechless.<br><br> :-/


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 12:27 am 
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[quote author=r_a_Z_Z link=board=albums;num=1076923979;start=0#0 date=02/16/04 at 01:32:58]His solos are completly meaningless. They are absolutly primitive and 99% wrong ... and please don't tell me they are expressive. <br><br> :-/[/quote]<br><br>Aren't we lucky to have people to tell us what's right or wrong, and what's expressive or not expressive?<br> <br>


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:22 am 
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The part that gets me the most is this...<br><br>[quote author=r_a_Z_Z link=board=albums;num=1076923979;start=0#0 date=02/16/04 at 01:32:58]<br>.... that soon or late someone musically schooled should tell the truth about this album and about Zappa's guitar playing in general. [/quote]<br><br>How fucking pompous and assheaded can you be?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:06 am 
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[quote author=r_a_Z_Z link=board=albums;num=1076923979;start=0#0 date=02/16/04 at 01:32:58]I am an expert guitarist and I think ... December 16, 2003 <br>.... that soon or late someone musically schooled should tell the truth about this album and about Zappa's guitar playing in general. The man surely had charisma, he had musical visions, he was extremely intelligent and funny and I will agree with anyone who will call him a true genius. He was, absolutly, without a doubt. I like Zappa's music, I own many albums of his, and I like them mainly from the compositional standpoint. Anyway this album is more or less only about his guitar playing so it is about that craft that I would like to say something. Well folks, Zappa didn't know how to play a da#n guitar. Someone should have took away the guitar from him!! His solos are completly meaningless. They are absolutly primitive and 99% wrong ... and please don't tell me they are expressive. These solos are pure musical nonsense. Frank had a pretty primitive technique and I can't understand how a musician so prepared , an orchestra director such as he was, could accept to play in that amateur way in front of an audience and release this trash. I mean this music is horrible. His guitar playing is pure garbage. He goes out of time, none of his notes is intelligible, no line has a meaning, the solos go nowhere, his guitar sound is really bad ... unbelievable. If I had heard these solos without knowing Frank was playing I would have judged these solos as amateur level efforts from a student who may have studied maybe six months. If you don't consider the support provided by the exceptional orchestra who played behind the MAN what remains is just boring and very limited guitar solos ! This is the truth. I think that this album clarify this point without any reasonable doubt. So kind readers, if you love Zappa's music buy something more important than this release from a compositional standpoint, if you love guitar, and maybe want to learn something about it, forget this garbage. It is incredibly bad and boring guitar music. Believe me. (2stars for the good orchestra job unfortunatly not much audible under the chaos provided by the MAN). <br><br><br>I know you can't go taking everything said about Frank personally, but this one left me speechless.<br><br> :-/[/quote]<br><br>I bet you are a fan of THE most over-rated guitarist EVER to walk the face of the earth, aren't you...???<br><br>If so then what are you doing here, go back to JimiHendrix.Com and you and your Hendrix-Loving buddies can go back to lsitening and reviewing another ''NEW'' Hendrix-album filled with the most pompous guitarplaying ever...<br>

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Alan Thicke: ''Now Frank, for those of us who have seen you as some kind of guru over the years, that's a kind of nihilistic assesment of music. Where's the hope ?''
Frank Zappa: ''Well, there isn't any...''


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:11 am 
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Are you talking to me?  I thought I made it pretty clear that I didn't write that review and that I posted it because it pissed me off.<br><br>And yes, I do like Jimi Hendrix, despite how absolutely irrelevant that is to this topic.  I would love for you to tell me what was so "pompous" about his playing or why he's overrated when he almost single handidly changed the role and sound of the electric guitar forever. :-/


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:25 am 
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[quote author=r_a_Z_Z link=board=albums;num=1076923979;start=0#5 date=02/16/04 at 05:11:58]Are you talking to me?  I thought I made it pretty clear that I didn't write that review and that I posted it because it pissed me off.<br><br>And yes, I do like Jimi Hendrix, despite how absolutely irrelevant that is to this topic.  I would love for you to tell me what was so "pompous" about his playing or why he's overrated when he almost single handidly changed the role and sound of the electric guitar forever. :-/[/quote]<br><br>I wasn't talking to you, sorry that i gave you that idea by simply quoting your quote of somebody elses quote...<br><br>I read ''your'' quote and was utterly flabbergasted by this guys opinion...<br><br>It's one thing to place FZ somewhere halfway Rolling Stone's List of 100 Greatest Guitarists, but this is something else.<br><br>I think this person wasn't really listening to the album or something, i don't know...<br><br>And Hey...i don't HATE Hendrix, in fact I am the proud owner of all his official releases and i actually LIKE 'em...<br><br>Sorry for my first response and I try to think twice before sharing my feelings in here...<br><br>ABBY<br>

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Alan Thicke: ''Now Frank, for those of us who have seen you as some kind of guru over the years, that's a kind of nihilistic assesment of music. Where's the hope ?''
Frank Zappa: ''Well, there isn't any...''


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:46 am 
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I assumed you were talking to me because you said to leave the site and go post on Hendrix.com, and since the guy who wrote that review doesn't post here, that wouldn't make sense to say.<br><br>No problem though, just a misunderstanding.  :)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:53 am 
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[quote author=r_a_Z_Z link=board=albums;num=1076923979;start=0#10 date=02/16/04 at 08:46:46]I assumed you were talking to me because you said to leave the site and go post on Hendrix.com, and since the guy who wrote that review doesn't post here, that wouldn't make sense to say.<br><br>No problem though, just a misunderstanding.  :)[/quote]<br><br>Nice we've cleared that out...there's enough fightin' and fuzzin' going on in the real world...so we don't need any in here !<br><br>Abby<br>

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Alan Thicke: ''Now Frank, for those of us who have seen you as some kind of guru over the years, that's a kind of nihilistic assesment of music. Where's the hope ?''
Frank Zappa: ''Well, there isn't any...''


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:21 am 
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The review above is probably from some whitetrash heap who thinks that the only good guitar playing came from Deep Purple or Uriah Heep!<br><br>I've thrived on FZ' guitar for 30 some years and still get chills when he opens some his solo's. I'll admit that the "Guitar" album was less exiting than SUAPYG, it still took big balls to go out there night after night and try new things with that stringed instrument.<br><br>Bad tone??? He's got your tone hangin' boy!<br>

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:12 am 
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[quote author=Ronnys Noomies link=board=albums;num=1076923979;start=0#12 date=02/16/04 at 19:06:18]<br>And, while I'm at it, whoever thinks Hendrix is even in the same league with Frank needs to take a closer listen. Yes, perhaps in technique only. But come on, listen to the solos! Hendrix was great, no doubt. But not in FZ's category at all, in terms of pure restless creativity.[/quote]<br><br>Ehhhh, look at what Hendrix was doing and when he was doing it if you're going to judge these guys on "pure restless creativity".   Hendrix was playing with unprecedented skill, fire, and even fragile grace while Frank was still rather average.  Hendrix was making his guitar scream, cry, explode and all sorts of other things a guitar shouldn't do while Frank was still picking away well stated, but comparatively run of the mill bluesy stuff (which Hendrix himself was a master at).  I mean I like Frank's earlier solos, but to say that he was even in Hendrix's league until maybe "Willie The Pimp" is ridiculous.  And even then,  as awesome a solo as "Willie The Pimp" is, it has a very hard time standing up to something as insane as "Machine Gun".  Frank kept improving as a guitarist, hitting his peak around 1980 (he was still great after), so who knows where Jimi might have gone had he lived past 1970.<br><br>Frank is my favorite guitar player of all time, but to objectively say that he was "better" than Jimi is just false.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:47 am 
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Perhaps you're right, but I figured posting it would be a good way to vent my frustration.  I mean there's a clear difference between not liking an album and calling the guy who made it a "garbage" guitar player (especially when he happens to be one of the best ever) and attempting to "reveal the truth about Frank Zappa's guitar playing".<br><br>I've long since cooled down but that guy is still a moron.<br><br> :-/


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:01 pm 
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Personally, I think Frank's early guitar playing was so bad because his rhythm section wasn't as good as it would be later on. I mean, Roy and JCB are nowhere near as adventurous as Patrick and Terry or Vinnie and Arthur. What they played was basically the same riff over and over and over ad nauseum.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 3:44 am 
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[quote author=Billy link=board=albums;num=1076923979;start=15#20 date=02/17/04 at 14:01:47]Personally, I think Frank's early guitar playing was so bad...[/quote]<br><br>Hey, I never said it was bad!  His solos on stuff like "The Orange County Lumber Truck" and "My Guitar Wants To Kill Your Mama" are great (just not "Voodoo Child (Slight Return)" great  :P).


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:21 am 
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[quote author=r_a_Z_Z link=board=albums;num=1076923979;start=15#21 date=02/18/04 at 05:44:46]<br><br>Hey, I never said it was bad!  His solos on stuff like "The Orange County Lumber Truck" and "My Guitar Wants To Kill Your Mama" are great (just not "Voodoo Child (Slight Return)" great  :P).[/quote]<br><br>I agree with ya there. It's just not as good as what he did  in the late 70s and early 80s. I guess a few more years of practice really helped too. My favorite early solo is "Transylvania Boogie". The tone! :o<br>

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:41 pm 
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[quote author=Batchain115 link=board=albums;num=1076923979;start=15#23 date=02/18/04 at 23:08:23]<br><br>Oh, NOW I understand you, r_a_Z_Z: you agree 90 -- 95 % with the putz you quoted from Amazon but there's about a 5% margin of disagreement you have with whoever that was.<br><br>Maybe if FZ had been a REAL guitarist he would have understood that pinching and pulling all those squeaks and squawks out of his six-stringer was the PROFESSIONAL thing to do and he wouldn't have kept his EQ set so horrendously much in the "mid-range" so that the fundamental is the note that's clearly heard. How grossely OUTDATED! If only he had had a TUTOR to bring him around to the shredder sensibility he might have at least been able to convincingly "fake it", possibly just about enough to pass! Aw, but now we're stuck with all that huge mound of embarrassing shit Zappa put out with maybe 3, 4, maybe even 5 worthwhile guitar solos. Really sad, huh?<br><br>--Bat[/quote]<br>LOL!<br><br><br>I love all of Frank's solo's. <br>When you hear his early solo's that may not be as good as later ones, just think of how much he evolved.


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