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PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 9:19 am 
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I called yesterday.  They had a problem with UPS and everything was held up.  SO dispite the data base saying mine was shipped on 10/04/04 it really didn't ship till 10/11/04  (or so they say this time)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:04 am 
I'm sorry to say this album is an almost complete waste. I have listened to it once and that will be it. It's not a music CD, more like a documentary of a small moment in his career. Sure, we all buy everything the FZT releases anyway, but is this really the best they can do with all the stuff that's in the vault? I cannot imagine FZ ever envisioned this to be released. <br><br>What I have learned, however, is: 1) that it's interesting to hear how FZ could play all his own music on guitar to show the band how to get the notes rights; 2) that I understand now why it took FZ many months to remaster a CD of a prior existing recording, because it does sound like there's an awful lot involved in making a CD even once the music is already recorded; and 3) that there is no substitute for FZ to release albums of his music. <br><br>FZ always sought control of every aspect of his music (recording, musicians, mastering, release, distribution), and now he has none.<br><br>Let's run home slow and listen to One Size Fits All. <br><br>Neb


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:54 am 
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[quote author=dwarfnebula link=board=albums;num=1095494732;start=150#156 date=10/15/04 at 13:04:17]I'm sorry to say this album is an almost complete waste. I have listened to it once and that will be it. It's not a music CD, more like a documentary of a small moment in his career. Sure, we all buy everything the FZT releases anyway, but is this really the best they can do with all the stuff that's in the vault? I cannot imagine FZ ever envisioned this to be released. <br>[/quote]<br><br>I just can't agree with these sentiments. In the first place, there is the 'documentary'/'social anthropoloty' aspect of Playground Psychotics that FZ released. I believe that had he been able to complete all the possible projects that such a rich tape library could afford, Joe's Domage would be just one disc of a greater set documenting that period of Zappa's life. It makes a great companion to tracks from Waka/Jawaka, Grand Wazoo and Studio Tan. The real problem is its lo fidelity. I have listened to it three times, and will keep listening to it, as I continue to revisit the Complete Pet Sounds Sessions. As loathesome a comparison as it must be for the ZFT to hear, this is just the sort of thing that, as a bootleg, I would pay too much for. As a cheaper official release, with much nicer artwork than a bootleg would offer, I'm not complaining. <br><br>However, having said that, I hope this series alternates with complete concerts and other gems. I would still love to hear Transfusion, Son of Lost Episodes (or whatever it might be called) and the KCET set that keeps turning up on bootlegs.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:16 am 
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[quote author=secretnigel link=board=albums;num=1095494732;start=150#157 date=10/15/04 at 13:54:42]<br> It makes a great companion to tracks from Waka/Jawaka, Grand Wazoo and Studio Tan. [/quote]<br>Joe's Domage made me really happy, it's precious. Thanks Joe Travers, when do you comeback on drum with Z ? It's dead ? I heard that Ahmet was ready to rock again... After his supreme love story (lucky man)

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 Post subject: re: new j's d
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:36 pm 
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[quote author=Ronnys Noomies link=board=albums;num=1095494732;start=150#151 date=10/13/04 at 19:18:02]Hell, I made the collassal mistake of including a tee-shirt in my order, which I assume is why my order hasn't even shipped yet...[/quote]<br>don't sweat it, just got swillco's [font=arial narrow]order shipped [/font]email including cd73, cd74, a j's g jigsaw, the hr guitar book & the 45 drafted....took about 12 days after mailing in a money order

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:09 am 
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[quote author=Bobby link=board=albums;num=1095494732;start=15#23 date=09/20/04 at 16:42:58]Here's the info from the newest Ice Magazine - I would have opened a new thread but some folks don't want to see too many threads on FZ's music ...<br><br> Here the Hot Poop<br><br> " It's from a cassette Joe found from one of the rarest bands, Frank had, from the Petite Wazoo era (fall 72). It's just a rehearsal tape, and the musicians are struggling with a piece.  What you get to hear is how Frank ran a rehearsal - talking the players through their parts, the phrasing keeping the band together."<br><br> it goes on..."Dweezil says there are "probably a dozen things getting to the completion stage, so there'll be more coming out over the next six months to a year.  We're getting to a point where we can create a subscription service for the fans, so they can either subscribe (through www.zappa.com) and get everything for a year, or just a selection of things, depending on what they want".<br><br>Ice Magazine # 211 October 2004, page 4<br><br><br> Hey - I would have made a new thread but I don't want to upset anyone... [/quote]<br><br>Harrrhrrhhr I'm almost ready. I need to calculate all (buck and cents) and golden manage this stream. I have a vinyl trade in my town/city on the 29th, no way for mistakes.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:23 am 
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[quote author=dwarfnebula link=board=albums;num=1095494732;start=150#156 date=10/15/04 at 13:04:17]I'm sorry to say this album is an almost complete waste. I have listened to it once and that will be it. It's not a music CD, more like a documentary of a small moment in his career. Sure, we all buy everything the FZT releases anyway, but is this really the best they can do with all the stuff that's in the vault? I cannot imagine FZ ever envisioned this to be released. <br><br>What I have learned, however, is: 1) that it's interesting to hear how FZ could play all his own music on guitar to show the band how to get the notes rights; 2) that I understand now why it took FZ many months to remaster a CD of a prior existing recording, because it does sound like there's an awful lot involved in making a CD even once the music is already recorded; and 3) that there is no substitute for FZ to release albums of his music. <br><br>FZ always sought control of every aspect of his music (recording, musicians, mastering, release, distribution), and now he has none.<br><br>Let's run home slow and listen to One Size Fits All. <br><br>Neb [/quote]<br><br><br><br><br>Totally Disagree with this!  First off, there is a lot of interesting stuff on Joe's Domage.  Also, I'm glad the ZFT is releasing material that Zappa wouldn't release himself.  Zappa's own choices haven't always been the best.  Remember, the "Baby Snakes" CD is a measely 30 minutes out of a brilliant series of concerts.  


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:05 am 
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Finally I can comment on Joe's Domage with some first hand experience.  I waited a little late in ordering, so I just got it the other day.  <br><br>First of all, after reading all the complaints and negative comments on JD, I was a little worried that I made a mistake in ordering it and not something else.  <br><br>Thankfully, I don't share the harsh criticism others have thrown out about this release.  In fact, I like it a lot.  It's pretty cool to have an FZ rehearsal tape of one of my favorite FZ bands in my ever growing Zappa collection.  <br>It also helps that I *like* behind the scenes stuff like this.  I find Joe's Domage to be a fasinating glimpse of Frank's interaction with his band and how bits and pieces of music develop into the final form we all know from the finished product.  <br><br>The sound quality isn't as bad as some had suggested either, although that kind of opinion is rather subjective. <br>After all, it is a rehearsal reference cassette from 1972.  I expected it to be harsh and was pleased to find that it sounded much better than I was figuring it would.  <br><br>I think the point of the Joe series is to give us stuff that's interesting but not really something that's meant for a major FZ release.  It's obviously for the hardcore fans.  Expecting it to be on the same scale as OZ, for example, is a little far reaching.  <br><br>I'm happy to own Joe's Domage and I thank the ZFT and Joe Travers for giving us the option of hearing a side of FZ very few ever heard.  <br><br>T


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:23 am 
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I might be in the minority but I think this is GREAT.  Something we never expected, something that is VERY INTERESTING.<br><br> Here's where I'm coming from - a fan of FZ since Money was released (Beatles never sounded the same since), a collector of all things FZ (I have 99.9% of all the traded shows/rehearsals on both tape and CDR).<br><br>  When it first came out (WAKA JAWAKA/Grand Wazoo) I was hoping it was a side excursion and the Flo and Eddie Band would continue.  When I drove to Waterbury in Oct 72 I was hoping of seeing Mark and Howie again.  The Petite Wazoo band blew me away.  <br><br>  Over the years these two releases were never enough to cover that too short but excellent period.  Since change is both constant and good I can not complain about the following bands (73, 74, 75 Beefheart, 76 NYC shows, etc.) but I always wanted more of the 72 stuff.<br><br> This is amazing hearing the new songs being born.  Some of it sounds like the Carl Stalling Project cd's.<br><br>  Two points.  1.) This series (Joe's ______age) is for the hardcore fans.  We will not get a Hot Rats or an Apostrophe, here.  What we will get are things that we should find interesting and maybe even amazing.  Maybe the sound quality will be lacking but the contents will be worth the price of admission.  The other stuff (Transfusion, Dance Me This, Varese, Lost Episodes, Petite Wazoo Live on Stage) will be released as a more main stream (if there is any FZ close to the main stream).  Please do not expect a polished project.  Do expect something of historical value.<br><br> 2.) They are not going to get rich on this series.  I believe this is Gail giving back to the fans stuff that they would never be able to get anywhere else.  I have been bitching about the lack of releases over the years...but I really have to thank GZ for this series.  <br><br>  I think the problem is in the marketing (or lack there of).  Hey but now we know.  I just can't wait for the next installment.<br><br><br> I'm not big on DVD's but hey, someday even Roxy will be released in it's expanded format (hopes I)...until then, the new releases are coming out at a good clip now (Bush can't stop 'em), you can buy 'em if you want (he will never make you buy 'em)...or you can take a pass.<br><br> I do indeed like this one....<br>  

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 1:59 pm 
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Quit complaining.<br>Like I have said before -- be satisfied with what you get.<br>Don't worry about the sound quality (or track listing) too much.<br>At least new stuff is being released.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:52 pm 
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I think one should expect a lot of starts and stops on a *rehearsal tape.*  If the band had it down spot on, there would be no need to rehearse.  <br><br>As for the labeling of the tracks, the songs are labeled in bold print on the site and the talking/starts/stops are not.  It's really not that different from what Frank himself did.  Uncle Meat being a fine example that comes to mind.  "If We'd All Been Living In California..." and Our Bizarre Relationship feature talking and no music.   <br><br>I don't think the ZFT were trying to mislead anyone with this release.  They simply offered a cool rehearsal tape at a decent price for FZ fans to buy or not buy.  Consumer option allowed.  <br><br>I for one am very happy to have it in my collection.  If your that unhappy with it, sell it on eBay.  I'm sure you can get at least half of what you paid for it.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:23 am 
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[quote author=NANOOK76 link=board=albums;num=1095494732;start=165#168 date=10/18/04 at 04:28:32]<br><br>Yeah, cause we know all record labels do that right? This is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen posted here. I hope GZ shits on your head.<br><br><br>[/quote]<br>it's gz not GZ, capital letters send out the wrong message, record labels don't normally do that because normally record labels release full songs on their albums and furthermore full songs that are sound productionwise...or at least listenable, if any other record label in the world released material that didn't sound like the completed article, i think there would be more than a fair share of similar complaints regarding the work....also as zappa fans we've become accustomed to his superior studio productions and the ultra high quality of them, so it's only natural that people are a bit peeved when new releases don't hit anywhere near the mark....the zft is meant to be carrying out the duties as zappa would have done himself....do you think he'd have allowed this to be released or wanted it released knowing how much of a perfectionist he was....the truth is none of us know for sure and it's all acedemic now anyway.  some people will like it others won't that's life, but to say that you hoped gz not GZ would shit on someone's head because of an opinion they hold and are entitled to hold relating to a zappa release is in fact the stupidest thing i've heard on this forum and that's including some of my own posts  ;D

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:37 am 
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I think Whitey and Scruts have valid points there. I'm sure the music parts are great and the concept is interesting, but I would have been pissed off if I'd bought it early and then found it to be a rehearsal tape. That should have been made clear at the start.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:44 am 
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[quote author=NANOOK76 link=board=albums;num=1095494732;start=165#170 date=10/18/04 at 05:34:32]<br><br>I don't mean to be harsh, but I'm just sick of all these complaints. I think many need to re-define their expectations. ::) [/quote]<br>You don't have to read other people expressing their opinions. You can always visit another topic.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:46 am 
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"73. Joe's Domage - Frank Zappa <br><br>CD. Now a series!!! Makes its own sauce . . . <br>Directly from the Vault via Joe Travers. <br>Zettamania! <br>Put the hurts on your teenage stereo. <br>Beam yourself up. Now!!! <br><br>Price <br>$13.00"<br><br>I would still have bought this if the description had mentioned it was a rehearsal tape.  The difference is that if they had properly described this from the get go, I wouldn't have been disappointed when I actually received the disc and put it in my cd player.  <br><br>On that note - Gail, Joe, & Dweezil: please keep 'em coming!!!  Just please describe them properly so we know what we're getting!!!!<br><br><br><br><br><br>  <br><br> <br>


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:18 am 
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I am waiting for my copy (bought it two weeks ago, finally shipped on Friday).<br>I thoroughly enjoyed Joe's Crosage.<br>I must admit, that I am a bit disappointed by some of the descriptions I've been reading knowing  that there must be tons of live concert recordings, since he recorded almost all of his shows. <br><br>Does anyone have any idea how many realeases are planned in this series? Does anyone know when the next one is planned? (Joe's Homage, probably).<br><br>

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:38 am 
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;D ;D ;D[quote author=NANOOK76 link=board=albums;num=1095494732;start=165#168 date=10/18/04 at 04:28:32]<br><br>Yeah, cause we know all record labels do that right? This is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen posted here. I hope GZ shits on your head.<br><br><br>[/quote]<br><br>I have a sneaking suspicion that Whitey may just enjoy that  ;D ;) ;D<br><br><br><br><br>Sorry Whitey!  ;D

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:51 am 
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You know we went nearly three years between EIHN and FZ:OZ <br>I never want to have to wait that long for more FZ.<br>I personally don't care that it's a rehearsal tape. As it has historical significance to one of the most under heard of FZ bands.<br>To suggest that gz or ZFT should put out disclaimers on what they release is just ludicrous.  ::)<br><br>

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