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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:06 pm 
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TheCentralScrutinizer wrote:
i have to say that after getting the album that i'm not exactly overawed. The tracks i heard on the myspace were the only decent ones on the album :cry:

Give the record some time and really let the music seep into your soul. Being a FZ fan you must know that not all music is based on instant gratification. This is music that grows on you. Keep listening. 8) It will come to you.

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J.C.GreasyVII wrote:
TheCentralScrutinizer wrote:
i have to say that after getting the album that i'm not exactly overawed. The tracks i heard on the myspace were the only decent ones on the album :cry:

Give the record some time and really let the music seep into your soul. Being a FZ fan you must know that not all music is based on instant gratification. This is music that grows on you. Keep listening. 8) It will come to you.


haha i'll give it a chance, i'm a penny pinching, miserable fucker so there's no way i'm not going to listen to an album that i bought :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:48 am 
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I saw Ween last night in Seattle. They are jaw-dropping live. If you like them. If not, you'd probably be confused.


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hodgy wrote:
I saw Ween last night in Seattle. They are jaw-dropping live. If you like them. If not, you'd probably be confused.


Lucky. Saw em a few weeks ago in Tucson, but the recent setlists (Ventura, Santa Cruz, Portland, Seattle) have been amazing.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:21 pm 
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http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0746, ... 38,22.html
here's an article from the Village Voice reviews the new album, and offers what may be the most accurate journalistic take on a very misunderstood band. The only problem I see w/ it is the comparison to Zappa (nothing against Zappa, but Ween have said many times they are not particularly influenced by him). The quotes from Mickey and David Sanborn about "parody" are particularly insightful.

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Sincerely Yours
Brilliantly mixing the sacred and the profane with Ween (and David Sanborn)
by Rob Harvilla
November 13th, 2007 4:02 PM

At Ween's request, I have reconsidered David Sanborn. Reappraised the smooth-jazz titan's impressively varied résumé (David Bowie, L.A. Law) and regarded anew his chosen aesthetic: a poppy, oil-slick, baby-making affability that evokes yachts, white zinfandel, and mullet-era Mel Gibson. Picture your father, half-emerged from the sunroof of a cherry-red Porsche puttering slowly past the Waverly Inn, his Italian silk tie blowing gracefully in the wind, his saxophone gleaming regally, soulfully blowing the chorus to "The Heat Is On" as women on the sidewalk coo and faint. That gets at it well enough.
In context, Sanborn can be surprisingly quite splendid. Even more surprisingly, the context that inspired this reappraisal is a Ween album.

"Your Party" is the final track and crowning jewel of La Cucaracha, the Pennsylvania-born duo's ninth (!) proper studio album in a lewd and lustrous 17-year (?!!?) career built around deeply juvenile, patently ludicrous genre experiments-synth-pop goofs, pornographic sea shanties, heavy-metal anthems, an entire hat-country album with song titles like "Mr. Richard Smoker" and "Piss Up a Rope"-executed with shocking skill and dexterity. They are clowns, but Frank Zappa clowns, their dirty mouths writing outlandish checks their outlandishly talented asses can actually cash. Their schizophrenic records are like top-shelf surrealist sketch-comedy routines; their concerts are mind-blowing three-hour stadium-rock blowouts. (Request "Tender Situation." Or "Dr. Rock." Or "Puerto Rican Power.")

Lately Ween's vibe, or Ween's audience's vibe, or both, has taken on a dour jam-rock sheen. But Cucaracha is looser and goofier and more diabolical than they've sounded in years, and this resurgence peaks on "Your Party," a swinging yacht-rock ballad about a swank upper-crust fete, the kind that features mountains of cocaine and a diamond-encrusted bowl of keys. "There were candy and spices and tricolored pastas," coos Gene Ween (né Aaron Freeman), and lo, floating ethereally in the background, it's David Sanborn, honking seductively away, his dulcet tones makeout-music incarnate.

Dean Ween (né Mickey Melchiondo), the guitar-shredder of the group, has since raved to Billboard that he loves David Sanborn, which has aroused suspicion, if not outright guffaws. A great many critics and even fans assume these guys are fucking around, just first-class irony peddlers. Mickey is tired of being thus misunderstood and misunderestimated.

"Our stuff is mostly autobiographical," he says, calling in from his fishing spot on Long Beach Island. "People don't get that at all. Not just some records-all of them. Aaron--Gene Ween-has written a lot of beautiful love songs. Some of our best songs are some of his love songs. And it's funny, for the first few records, to hear people say that we do spot-on parodies of love songs. We can't write a fuckin' love song? It has to be 'making fun of a love song'? It can't just be judged for what it is? How come we have that tag stuck to us? Because we switch styles of music, we're not afraid to play around?"

Consider "Baby Bitch," from 1994's beloved breakthrough Chocolate and Cheese. It's a willowy, somber, acoustic kiss-off. Sample lyrics: "Baby baby baby bitch/I'm better now, please fuck off." Dean thinks it gets a bad rap. "I remember what it was about-it's about a breakup. I remember how hard it was on him, and how well he was able to articulate his pain or whatever in that song. I think that was the first time I can really remember reading that sort of thing about us, like, 'Oh, it's a parody of some kind of Bob Dylan breakup song.' Like, what the fuck are you talkin' about?"

The apex of this confusion is 1996's 12 Country Greats, a 10-song straight-up honky-tonk record cut in Nashville with badass lifer sidemen whom the Ween boys clearly deified. Or maybe not so clearly. "People thought we were going to Nashville and making fun of these old guys by making this record, not realizing it was one of the most rewarding things we ever did," Mickey says. "We're huge fans of it, and grew up on country music. The records those guys have played on-we felt we were going on sacred ground."

The notion that a band responsible for songs like "Put the Coke on My Dick" considers anything sacred ground is unfeasible, but if some of Cucaracha is excessively corny even by Ween's standards-narcotized reggae romp "The Fruit Man," the painstakingly vapid dance-pop jam "Friend"-it's good to hear them thoroughly enjoying themselves again. Quebec, from 2003, isn't entirely a downer-behold the Motörhead-aping opener "It's Gonna Be a Long Night"-but it reflects a time in Ween's lives so unpleasant that Mickey has actually never listened to it, and possibly never will. "A lot of personal real-life shit went down," he says. "Aaron got divorced, and we were both way too fucked up, and it was no longer . . . fun."

"Fun" is a relative construct, of course. In sharp contrast to Aaron's love songs, Mickey admits: "When I'm really, really, really inspired to write is when I'm really fuckin' pissed off." Which brings us to "With My Own Bare Hands," a brief, violent, hard-rock Cucaracha track that features Mickey howling, "She's gonna be my cock professor, studyin' my dick/She's gonna get her master's degree in fuckin' me."

Mickey is happy to explain this song's genesis. "When I met my wife, she was aspiring to be a teacher-we've been together 17 years, we've been married 11 years. She had just gotten out of college, and she had to get her teaching credentials in New Jersey and Pennsylvania, then she went and got her master's degree. And then I ended up having to pay off these student loans-and then, just about the time it was all said and done, we had a baby and she quit and, like, never worked again. Meanwhile, I'm paying off these student loans. I was really pissed off at her, so I wrote that song, and that's where that verse comes from.

"I've written some pretty rotten songs about her that she's dealt with," he adds. "Sometimes when she comes to see us, she gets a little bit pissed off-at 'Piss Up a Rope' or whatever."

It's times like these you wonder: What's stranger, that Ween are David Sanborn fans or that David Sanborn is a Ween fan? Mickey says that when they initially approached his management about "Your Party," they got blown off-but suddenly, wait! It turns out Dave's a big fan, and he'd love to! Can this possibly be true?

"I like the whole record," Dave says, calling in from-a Porsche's sunroof, maybe. "They're just really good songs, and interesting production . . . and they're funny. That shit is funny, man."

As to the question of whether he is being spoofed or deeply honored here, Dave is nonchalant. Profanely so, which is appropriate. "Personally, it doesn't really matter much to me," he says. "If it's a send-up, they certainly do it with conviction and musicianship. . . . They certainly do whatever they do well. Whether or not it's a put-on kind of becomes irrelevant. Do you like the song or not? That, to me, is the larger point: Does it work for you? Who gives a shit what their motives are? If you listen to it and go, 'Aw, come on,' then they fucked up. But if they do it and you go, 'Hmm, I wonder. . . .' "

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Last edited by pygmy stallion on Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:43 pm 
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Quote:
(nothing against Zappa, but Ween have said many times they are not particularly influenced by him)


The interview I have with them says they loved the early Mothers material and were influenced by that, but not by his later albums, which they saw as selling out.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:35 pm 
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FeralCats wrote:
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(nothing against Zappa, but Ween have said many times they are not particularly influenced by him)


The interview I have with them says they loved the early Mothers material and were influenced by that, but not by his later albums, which they saw as selling out.


Could you post that? I'm very interested in reading it. The closest thing I recall reading something like that was an interview mentioning that Gener liked what he heard of the early albums but they felt he got bitter and started singing like an asshole or some such.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:22 am 
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I can't find the whole interview, but here's the snippet I was talking of--

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GW: You know, Zappa’s the only one I don’t really like much. Neither of us do. I liked Mothers of Invention, which my father was really into when I was little. I listened to Freak Out and stuff like that, and I think it really affected my musical writings. But now I go back and listen to him in the 70’s and I think it’s crap. Like "Dynamo Hum". I mean, give me a break.

ZZ: He got pretentious there sometimes.

GW: Yeah, he was just guitarded. At the end he was just a big guitarded dum-dum, just like "Ha, ha, I’m not in to it, man." And he was bitter and shit... ah, whatever.


I still don't see how Dynamo Hum leads into 'Pretentious', but, hey, what ya going to do?

I'm always very surprised when I find bands that seem very Zappa influenced but seem to be so ashamed of it. Like that one They Might Be Giants quote-- "I'd love to say we were influenced by The Velvet Underground but unfortunatley I was listening to a lot of Zappa at the time." At least that one's sorta funny.


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GW: Yeah, he was just guitarded. At the end he was just a big guitarded dum-dum, just like "Ha, ha, I’m not in to it, man." And he was bitter and shit... ah, whatever.

That just takes my fucking breath away - one more reason not to like Ween I'm afraid. Someone should play him Wazoo without the speaking parts so as not to give it away and see what he thinks then.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:08 am 
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FeralCats wrote:
I can't find the whole interview, but here's the snippet I was talking of--

Quote:
GW: You know, Zappa’s the only one I don’t really like much. Neither of us do. I liked Mothers of Invention, which my father was really into when I was little. I listened to Freak Out and stuff like that, and I think it really affected my musical writings. But now I go back and listen to him in the 70’s and I think it’s crap. Like "Dynamo Hum". I mean, give me a break.

ZZ: He got pretentious there sometimes.

GW: Yeah, he was just guitarded. At the end he was just a big guitarded dum-dum, just like "Ha, ha, I’m not in to it, man." And he was bitter and shit... ah, whatever.


I still don't see how Dynamo Hum leads into 'Pretentious', but, hey, what ya going to do?

I'm always very surprised when I find bands that seem very Zappa influenced but seem to be so ashamed of it. Like that one They Might Be Giants quote-- "I'd love to say we were influenced by The Velvet Underground but unfortunatley I was listening to a lot of Zappa at the time." At least that one's sorta funny.
Well, that Gener bit sounded like two bored imbeciles attempting to be cleaver knowing they had nothing of substance to say but an interview to do. That shit works best when you can't or don't have anything to say that explains anything at all and just works as verbal filler. "He got pretentious". OK, how? Nothing that was definitive, just an empty adjective hanging there without meaning. A "big guitarded dum-dum" ... "and [he] was bitter and shit... ah, whatever." OK, let's hear some more empty, unfocused bubba-ism while you're heads rolling faster than your joints and Rolling Rock, asshole! Fuck that asshole for the fool he showed himself to be!

--Bat :evil:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:24 am 
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i've decided now that i hate the fuckers, they're not doing anything original and after reading through this thread have realised that they're fannies also.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:29 am 
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Yeah, fuck that guy for having an opinion about someone's music! :roll:

Who the fuck cares what Gene thinks about Zappa or anyone else? Ween's music is still awesome. Or do you guys only listen to musicians who feel the exact same way you do about everything?


As for bands being ashamed of being influenced by Zappa, I think it all goes back to that "comedy rock" stigma. People still (unfairly) think of Zappa as a comedy act, and once a band is labeled "parody" music or comedy rock, it's hard for people to shake that notion and take anything the band does seriously. Other bands don't want to fall into this trap, so they distance themselves from Zappa whether they were influenced by him or not. It's a shame, but it's totally understandable.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:44 am 
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pygmy stallion wrote:
Yeah, fuck that guy for having an opinion about someone's music! :roll:

Who the fuck cares what Gene thinks about Zappa or anyone else? Ween's music is still awesome. Or do you guys only listen to musicians who feel the exact same way you do about everything?


As for bands being ashamed of being influenced by Zappa, I think it all goes back to that "comedy rock" stigma. People still (unfairly) think of Zappa as a comedy act, and once a band is labeled "parody" music or comedy rock, it's hard for people to shake that notion and take anything the band does seriously. Other bands don't want to fall into this trap, so they distance themselves from Zappa whether they were influenced by him or not. It's a shame, but it's totally understandable.


Thank you.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:08 am 
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I saw Ween open up for Col. Claypools Bucket of Bernie Brains during Jazzfest '03 in NO-LA and I was not impressed. At the time, CCBBB was doing completely improvised sets and I was finally going to see them live and they made me sit through an hour and a half of Ween! It sucked! The lead singer was jumping off the drum riser dancing around like he was sexy. I think he was imitating Mick Jagger, but he looked more like Richard Simmons little brother. I have friends that like them, but I don't get it!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:52 am 
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Listened to Chocolate & Cheese and GodWeenSatan, didn't think much to it.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:46 am 
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pygmy stallion wrote:
Who the fuck cares what Gene thinks about Zappa or anyone else? Ween's music is still awesome.



Couldn't have said it better myself. I went out and bought Pure Guava and am enjoying it immensely. And in spite of what the Ween guy says, there's yet another track (Pumpin' 4 the Man) that reminds me a lot of a 70's Zappa tune (Wind Up Workin). So go figure.

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Ween's not for everyone, that's for sure. And apart from their skill for nice melodies and their willingness to try any style, there really isn't any particular reason why a Zappa fan should necessarily like them.

As for their attitude, that's one thing that's always been a little unclear to me, even as a fan. They seem to come across saying, "Hey, we're just trying to write great tunes, we're not weird" and get frustrated by their "novelty" tag. But they call themselves "Ween", have silly nicknames, and write a lot of songs with either funny titles, lyrics, or arrangements. What else is the casual observer to think? So they suffer from that same "comedy music" stigma that Zappa did, but in a way they (and Zappa) brought it on themselves. That's not an accusation - just an observation as to how the non-fan (or even pre-fan) must think of them. And the same went for Zappa. It's that duality of serious/non-serious that polarizes people, either makes them think they're a joke, or arrogant, or both.

I became a fan early on, when their "weirdness" quotient was at an all time high, so I've had the pleasure of seeing them evolve from pranksters to genuinely talented record-makers (and live players, something I would NEVER have predicted after hearing Pure Guava when it came out).

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:52 am 
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"He's Right!" 8)

your experience and take very closely paralells mine, feets!

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pygmy stallion wrote:
Yeah, fuck that guy for having an opinion about someone's music! :roll:

Who the fuck cares what Gene thinks about Zappa or anyone else? Ween's music is still awesome. Or do you guys only listen to musicians who feel the exact same way you do about everything?
I bought Mollusk and listened to it and I don't like it. Gene being a twat is just one more reason, not the reason, to not like them.

pygmy stallion wrote:
As for bands being ashamed of being influenced by Zappa, I think it all goes back to that "comedy rock" stigma. People still (unfairly) think of Zappa as a comedy act, and once a band is labeled "parody" music or comedy rock, it's hard for people to shake that notion and take anything the band does seriously. Other bands don't want to fall into this trap, so they distance themselves from Zappa whether they were influenced by him or not. It's a shame, but it's totally understandable.
You see, I don't think it's "totally" understandable. The tendency to trash something without evidence is far too prevalent. Gene Ween obviously knows very little about Zappa's output beyond the original Mothers and for someone supposedly so intelligent his remarks are incredibly ignorant.

So far I just don't like Mollusk and there's only 24 hours in a day so I may or may not get around to listening to more of their stuff, but I'm not trashing them on this basis, just giving them a wide berth.

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pygmy stallion wrote:
Yeah, fuck that guy for having an opinion about someone's music! :roll:

Who the fuck cares what Gene thinks about Zappa or anyone else? Ween's music is still awesome. Or do you guys only listen to musicians who feel the exact same way you do about everything?


As for bands being ashamed of being influenced by Zappa, I think it all goes back to that "comedy rock" stigma. People still (unfairly) think of Zappa as a comedy act, and once a band is labeled "parody" music or comedy rock, it's hard for people to shake that notion and take anything the band does seriously. Other bands don't want to fall into this trap, so they distance themselves from Zappa whether they were influenced by him or not. It's a shame, but it's totally understandable.


Yo, I actually do agree with you here. I'm not the biggest Ween fan, and some of their criticisms of Zappa can be used against them, but it's all good. I mean, Zappa and Beefheart had a love/hate thing going on...

EDIT: Though I still think it's either a marketing move on Ween's part or they are simply choosing to be close minded. Not liking something is fine; misrepresenting something so that you can't like it isn't.


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I think that interview is really old. Like a dozen years ago. And you know when artists are trying to establish themselves they'll say just about anything to separate themselves from whatever else may be out there.
Zappa had some pretty lousy things to say about other bands early on that he later was able to acknowledge were pretty good . . .
Gener has always had and preserved the rep of being an asshole, a jerk, a prick for prick's sake, whether it was really how he felt or not. He maintains the right to be a dick when he feels like it. <shrug>
I Bet if the ween guys had heard zpz, they'd be blown away and happy to praise it. In fact, I bet they have already . . . they seem to be runnin in the same circles as earl slick this year
<scratches chin>\

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They're not bad.

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calvin2hikers wrote:
They're not bad.


But are they good?


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FeralCats wrote:
calvin2hikers wrote:
They're not bad.


But are they good?


In my experience; no.

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Crudblud wrote:
FeralCats wrote:
calvin2hikers wrote:
They're not bad.


But are they good?


In my experience; no.

Uh, if you saw them live you would shut your fucking mouth. 8)

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