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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:34 pm 
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Last edited by Trendmonger on 16 Dec 2007 16:17; edited 3,764 times in total

LOL

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:08 pm 
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balint wrote:
Hi Trendmonger,

sorry for the lost reply. For now just one thing we might discuss: I again don't understand the word "data" you are constantly using. It suggests that KUR "releases", "publishes" things in one way or another, that belongs to someone else.



When talking of a fan based website in general we are talking of large sums of collected data on an artist. Some of the fan based websites have put together lots of great information and Frank Zappa is of no exception but at what point this become against the artist rights is in question.

In regards to the big picture even if a site contains no official published material of any data substance how I am reading into this once again is where prominent representation can or has become misrepresentation of an artists rights and that artists integrity.

I don't think it just boils down to a name but because names are owned when things get out of control it is easy to reference that as part of copyright ownership.

To take this into a different context where possibly I can give an analogy.

Have you ever noticed where some of my writings just require far too much energy to understand. Whether I am right or wrong in what I am saying to even attempt 100% comprehension requires far too much energy.

There is too much prominent representation or as I said misrepresentation of an artist over time on many fan based websites. A legal precedence must be given and it is due diligence of any publisher to adhere to artistic rights.

Does it now become obvious that many fan based websites have not followed giving due diligence in adhering to artistic rights and integrity?

Even when some receive legal notification does it not seem at times that th e fan based community is placed above artistic rights and integrity?

Who is going to monitor artistic right and artistic integrity?

If it were a website that focused on wider range of musical interests it would be far easier to keep a grasp from a publishing perspective.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:35 pm 
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LOL, someone suggested Z-man (who highly likely is Isaac, I still insist) is Smithers to Gail's Burns. However, it has always been obvious that the real Smithers is none other than Trendmonger


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:50 pm 
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Hi Trendmonger,

Trendmonger wrote:
When talking of a fan based website in general we are talking of large sums of collected data on an artist. Some of the fan based websites have put together lots of great information and Frank Zappa is of no exception but at what point this become against the artist rights is in question.


What youre writing is something I understand, but anyway: you cannot control thoughts and opinions of people. When youre an artist, you make music, you make films, and published it, with this gesture you gave a possibility to ANYONE to make an opinion about is - furthermore: to even write a book or aricle about it. Let's say you're a director - anyone can write a book entitled "The Best Director Ever" - about your work. Someone else can write another one: "The Director That I Just Cant Stand" - also about your work. And people might read it, and might agree with it or not. BUT I dont think you can stop anyone writing a book or article about you - okay, unless its full of lies.

You cant stop a magazin writing a review on Dweezil's shows. They might love DZ, they might hate - the moment they step on the stage, anyone can make his/her own opinion about him, about ZPZ, about an album, about a TV-show, whatever. My opinion, the reviewer's opinion is not copyrighted.

No one should control OPINIONS. Yes: a fan page collects (not "datas", but) opinions about the Big Musical Person. This might be close to or might be far from the opinion the Family has. But hey, that is the reason a fan page is not the official. There IS ONE that is official. Everyone can make his/her choice.

So: AUD recordings: okay, stopped, sorry.
Opinions, chat, reviews, links to articles, links to reviews: fine, just let it go!

and: participate! It's fun!

finally I just repeat your sentence:

"at what point this become against the artist rights is in question"?

At what point? Hm?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:33 pm 
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just plain doug wrote:
feetlightup wrote:
WWTD?

Bore us to death about it, several times, over several days. (weeks, even!)

At the time this question was translated for me, a couple of days ago, I considered replying that he'd learned his lesson and was restraining himself. Well, am I glad that I didn't?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:50 pm 
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Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
LOL, someone suggested Z-man (who highly likely is Isaac, I still insist) is Smithers to Gail's Burns. However, it has always been obvious that the real Smithers is none other than Trendmonger


I am not Smithers but I do remember seeing Alice Cooper perform Unfinished Sweet on the Smothers Brothers Show but everyone voice whatever your opinion is on this topic.

Can anyone really think that Gail Zappa agrees with everything I have to say? That's entirely a preposterous thought for I just write what's on my mind. I want to say this politely .....In no way do I represent Gail Zappa. I appreciate how Gail Zappa stands strong for her own beliefs but she stands for herself.

Gail may agree or disagree with me in variant intensity with any given topic I comment on but one thing I really need to be clear about. Personally after taking a step back for a while I see much of my behavior as being far too domineering in nature. I want to let Zappa fans have the air to digest Zappa with their own sensory perception.

I just don't want to get too deep into this. It's just one of these topics that can easily get out of hand where I for one don't want to voice too loudly and in anyway whatsoever be perceived as some authoritative or know it all voice. I participated a little and take my opinion with a grain of salt.

Since that legal document was put out there I would suggest people who have an interest in this to just take the time and read it for themselves.

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Trendmonger's Moment Of Clarity

FZ "Read It And Weep"
April 17,1981

Frank Zappa left the ZFT in Control of his Vaults and Artistic rights.
We the fans are not in control. We have a choice to use our eyes and ears or read it and weep.


Last edited by Trendmonger on Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:28 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:07 pm 
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jimmie d killed the forum wrote:

The same thing happened to me after ZFT fucked me over at The Warner Theater last year. I didn't feel like listening to FZ for a couple months. Even today, things just aren't the same.

:cry:[/quote]

The ZFT fucked you over because they cancelled a show where not enough people bought tickets? Ha :P That's hilarious. I had a ticket for that Erie show too, and wasn't surprised it didn't happen. When it got cancelled, I immediately bought a ticket for Cleveland instead which was better in the long run, being outside in a beautiful ampitheater - and on a weekend. Caught the Buffalo show too in November. Your loss, douchebag.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:17 pm 
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Fred_Zappelin wrote:
jimmie d killed the forum wrote:
The same thing happened to me after ZFT fucked me over at The Warner Theater last year. I didn't feel like listening to FZ for a couple months. Even today, things just aren't the same.

:cry:

The ZFT fucked you over because they cancelled a show where not enough people bought tickets? Ha :P That's hilarious. I had a ticket for that Erie show too, and wasn't surprised it didn't happen. When it got cancelled, I immediately bought a ticket for Cleveland instead which was better in the long run, being outside in a beautiful ampitheater - and on a weekend. Caught the Buffalo show too in November. Your loss, douchebag.

Douchebag? What the fuck? Cancelled show? No, the show wasn't cancelled. Take the hair outta your ass, and take another guess.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:35 pm 
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[/quote]
Douchebag? What the fuck? Cancelled show? No, the show wasn't cancelled. Take the hair outta your ass, and take another guess.[/quote]

I must have missed something. Please fill me in on what actually happened.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:18 pm 
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vince_de_wild wrote:
a-HA!!!! Isaac's the Z-man, they are the egg-men, I AM THE WALRUS!!!


Ed Organus Maximus wrote:
LOL, someone suggested Z-man (who highly likely is Isaac, I still insist)


WHO THE HELL IS "Z-MAN" AND WHY DO YOU THINK THAT I AM HIM???? :?

[size=0]Isaac[/size]

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:45 pm 
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Isaac wrote:

WHO THE HELL IS "Z-MAN" AND WHY DO YOU THINK THAT I AM HIM???? :?

[size=0]Isaac[/size]


Ok,ok.... you're NOT Z-man!! Sheech!

"Lighten up, Fransis."


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:31 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
just plain doug wrote:
feetlightup wrote:
WWTD?

Bore us to death about it, several times, over several days. (weeks, even!)

At the time this question was translated for me, a couple of days ago, I considered replying that he'd learned his lesson and was restraining himself. Well, am I glad that I didn't?


It was only a matter of time. So it goes. :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:43 pm 
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FOWL wrote:
Don't you see? Music comes from the ethos, humans don't create it, we just channel it man.... Once your hands play that note WE ALL OWN IT! Just because god didn't choose me to make Zappa's music, doesn't mean it's not mine man, tap into the cosmic vibe and groove on the oneness of it all!

"Now who you jiving with that cosmic debris?"

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 Post subject: Cosmik with a K
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:32 am 
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edgewaterinn wrote:
"Now who you jiving with that cosmic debris?"

Uhhh.....that would be Cosmik Debris.....and you call yourself a Zappa fan. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:55 am 
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jaypfunk wrote:
Rumor has it that the ROXY DVD is coming in April 2008. Will you crybaby whiners be happy and STFU then?


I hope this comes to pass. I really do.

Incidentally, what's the over/under on how many threads there'll be about how expensive it is. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:59 am 
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BillyDaMt wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
Rumor has it that the ROXY DVD is coming in April 2008. Will you crybaby whiners be happy and STFU then?


I hope this comes to pass. I really do.

Incidentally, what's the over/under on how many threads there'll be about how expensive it is. :mrgreen:


i don't think it's true

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:15 am 
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TheCentralScrutinizer wrote:
BillyDaMt wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
Rumor has it that the ROXY DVD is coming in April 2008. Will you crybaby whiners be happy and STFU then?


I hope this comes to pass. I really do.

Incidentally, what's the over/under on how many threads there'll be about how expensive it is. :mrgreen:


i don't think it's true


April Fools! but it would be cool if it was actually released that day. It would be fitting. Whether I buy it at top dollar is another story...


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:21 am 
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TheCentralScrutinizer wrote:
BillyDaMt wrote:
jaypfunk wrote:
Rumor has it that the ROXY DVD is coming in April 2008. Will you crybaby whiners be happy and STFU then?


I hope this comes to pass. I really do.

Incidentally, what's the over/under on how many threads there'll be about how expensive it is. :mrgreen:


i don't think it's true


I'm choosing, this christmas season, to believe in miracles.
:wink:
Who knows, perhaps the joke will be on me.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:04 am 
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jimmie d killed the forum wrote:
brainpang wrote:
Only Gail Zappa could spoil the enjoyment of listening to her husbands records. I doubt I'll listen to Zappa for months. I hope it won't last long, and I hope I can shake this sour feeling that the Trust has served up for lunch.

The same thing happened to me after ZFT fucked me over at The Warner Theater last year. I didn't feel like listening to FZ for a couple months. Even today, things just aren't the same.

:cry:


Damn, dude...sounds pretty horrific. What happened?


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Batchain1001 wrote:
punknaynowned wrote:
ZFT ought to be fucking thankful as bloody hell that they keep the fucking ZFT alive.

--Bat


That is the funniest thing I've heard all week. And I always thought fan sites were kind of cheesy...I mean, why not devote all your time and energy into your own stuff?


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Giacomelli the Younger wrote:
Batchain1001 wrote:
punknaynowned wrote:
ZFT ought to be fucking thankful as bloody hell that they keep the fucking ZFT alive.

--Bat


That is the funniest thing I've heard all week. And I always thought fan sites were kind of cheesy...I mean, why not devote all your time and energy into your own stuff?


uh, why bother to listen to any music that you yourself did not create?


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brainpang wrote:
Giacomelli the Younger wrote:
Batchain1001 wrote:
punknaynowned wrote:
ZFT ought to be fucking thankful as bloody hell that they keep the fucking ZFT alive.

--Bat


That is the funniest thing I've heard all week. And I always thought fan sites were kind of cheesy...I mean, why not devote all your time and energy into your own stuff?


uh, why bother to listen to any music that you yourself did not create?


Well, if ya follow my analogy, a more logical question would be why play music somebody else had written without their knowledge or request.

I mean, to devote yourself to someone else's enterprises at the possible expense of your own just seems not so great. But if that's what you wanna do instead of creating something of your own to generate your own income and well-being, I guess that's cool.

For me, it's almost a do-something-with-your-lives issue rather than a legal issue.


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Giacomelli the Younger wrote:
brainpang wrote:
Giacomelli the Younger wrote:
Batchain1001 wrote:
punknaynowned wrote:
ZFT ought to be fucking thankful as bloody hell that they keep the fucking ZFT alive.

--Bat


That is the funniest thing I've heard all week. And I always thought fan sites were kind of cheesy...I mean, why not devote all your time and energy into your own stuff?


uh, why bother to listen to any music that you yourself did not create?


Well, if ya follow my analogy, a more logical question would be why play music somebody else had written without their knowledge or request.

I mean, to devote yourself to someone else's enterprises at the possible expense of your own just seems not so great. But if that's what you wanna do instead of creating something of your own to generate your own income and well-being, I guess that's cool.

For me, it's almost a do-something-with-your-lives issue rather than a legal issue.


You do realize that includes Dweezil as well, right?


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Giacomelli the Younger wrote:
Well, if ya follow my analogy, a more logical question would be why play music somebody else had written without their knowledge or request.

I mean, to devote yourself to someone else's enterprises at the possible expense of your own just seems not so great. But if that's what you wanna do instead of creating something of your own to generate your own income and well-being, I guess that's cool.

For me, it's almost a do-something-with-your-lives issue rather than a legal issue.

I really don't get what point you are trying to make. What do you think the ratio of good musicians is to good composers? What does someone do, who's a good musician but has no particular spark for composition, other than play someone else's music? And as for composers, for instance, where would Zappa have been without musicians willing to play other people's music?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:38 pm 
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Hellos,

Thank you each and every one of you who wrote in HERE to express their opinions - informed or otherwise - I really appreciate it. And for the benefit of all who personally wrote to me here is in part, some of what I have to say about all this.

In my own personal way this is my version of acknowledgement of the three holidays that my family is always celebrating that concern FZ - the first is of course, Zappadan which falls between 4 December and 21 December every year - and the other is the festival that falls between 22 December and 30 October with a break (for the third) on the 31st of October through the 2nd of November and then continues on until 4 December.

Apart from any real, new, or naive fans seeing our properties on various sites and somehow having the idea that we are supporting these or authorizing them by virtue of their 'use', among other of the many problems that we continue to face as the rights owners of all things Zappa is how to protect our copyrights and what is the risk of failure to do so. This always means spending dollars to chase virtual pennies. Not a great or rewarding plan.

(Oh yes, and they always claim they are spending so much money to honor FZ. Cacadoody. It is the Music, not gossip and fiction and innuendo that bring fans to Zappa.)

My favorite idea of a good time in these instances would be to be able to authorize these "fan" sites and work with them as part of the education and cooperation process - even though that is time-consuming. Alas, in the main, these people NEVER write or contact us up front to ask permission. (Considerate fans do.) Unfortunately it is not always fans - but rather people who have their own agenda and do not wish it to be interfered with. There are so many that cast themselves as 'god' and then cast FZ in their own image. This is not fun for us. Ignorance is ignorable to a degree. But when you see the abuse level increase with the posting of obviously copyrighted material where no permission was sought or even contemplated and when that expands to include the posting of bit torrents or links to them, including work that we just published, the lines get drawn pretty swiftly. It should be noted that some of this is done on an autopilot basis - in the sense that some of the letters generated by our legal representatives and others happen without being able to advance the possibilities of a resolution. Lately however, as our ability to increase the output from the Vault expands, we are more dismayed than ever at how rude, crude and insensitive these purported "fans" can be. And the proof that they are actually not fans is in their utter disregard for FZ's works and their meanness toward my (FZ's/our) family that they express - along with the considerable abuse of copyrighted materials and trademarks. Real fans do not do that. The idea that these types are doing us any favors is preposterous. The idea that anyone thinks these properties were created for them to use as they wish is preposterous. But the idea that they have the self-appointed right to to so is against the law as protected under the Constitution of the United States of America and enforced by whatever legal means available to us and to Frank Zappa during his lifetime. We did not write these laws but they have made it possible for FZ to make a living and to provide for his family doing the very thing he loved - writing Music. And they have made it possible for us to continue to survive preserving those very works. Consider if we could not do so - there would be no Vault.

Since his death people can (and do) make any claim they wish as to what they think FZ would do - or say or think. But I do not wish to waste my time on this. I still work for FZ. And my promise, my duty and my obligation remains - to protect the integrity of the work and the intent of the Composer and in service to this purpose I will defend his identity and the right for his name (image & likeness) to be associated with his work - and the right for the work to remain unaltered, and unabused by others. I will continue to do this for my grandchildren and my children, for all the people who love the music, for all the potential in all those with the ears and insight to hear it - and first, last and always for Frank Zappa. Long may we all laugh.

Music is the Best!

gz


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