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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:46 pm 
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So do you think capitalism as we know it is coming to an end? Where will this crisis eventually lead the world? If the US breaks half the world, if not more, will economically sink as well...

GMs filled for bankruptcy! What was once the biggest corporation on earth is today broken. And let's face it, so is everything else on the wild market...

Next bubble to burst: credit card's debt...

Unfortunately history teaches us that after major economic crisis, generalized war ensues...

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:51 am 
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All nations which have had their currency become the world's reserve (for example, Spain, Great Britan, Rome, Amsterdam, etc), have followed the same cycle, there have been no exceptions...

Agricultural nation
Manufacturing begins
Exporting begins

If nation becomes dominant nation in exports, other nations begin trading in it's currency...allowing...

Financial instuments entering the nations GDP, displacing exports.
Financial instruments displace exports as dominant component of GDP, trade deficit (imports compared to exports), increases (we're up to almost a trillion a year imbalance now), and without export, the currency loses role as worlds reserve.
The economy collapses.

This has typically been followed by 40-50 year period of turmoil before things stablized.

No nation who's has her currency become the world's reserve has ever survived this cycle, (otherwise, they would still be the world's reserve currency/we're not on the British Sterling or Spanish Gallion anymore).

There is one thing different this time as the US reaches the end of this cycle, (financial instruments are about 45% of our GDP, our trade imbalance is about 1 trillion a year, (and other nations are starting to slow lending to the US to float our importing debt))...the thing that's different now is we have the Internet and the people can communicate this time. We do have the ability to pressure our leaders to reverse the trade deficit by returning manufacturing and exporting to the US, displacing financial instruments in GDP. There have been no signs of this happening so far, the people are not pressuring our leaders nor do they seem aware or interested to do so, (and it's presently pedal to the metal with the WTO/NAFTA etc that are still exporting our remaing jobs), and unpressured, there have been no words from our leaders about exiting the imbalanced trade agreements, so the trade deficit will of course continue it's growth(why would it change without a reason)..which is what we see happening now as we put on our Chinese "Fruit of the Loom" underwear.

The posibility exists for the US to become the first nation in history to escape the cycle, but I don't see any signs of that happening. If we don't exit agreements like the WTO, the jobs aren't coming back...if the jobs don't come back the economy doesn't recover.

Either pressure your politicians, and tell yer neighbors to get off the stick and do the same...or...

...Learn to swim :)

It's interesting that every nation that's had it's currency become the world's reserve has followed this cycle, not one has ever escaped....ever.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:20 am 
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

he's right!
a great book on that:
http://www.amazon.com/Great-Wave-Revolu ... 341&sr=1-1

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:11 pm 
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Capitalism has been dead since the invention of the income tax and governments borrowing money from private banking institutions. Too bad, seemed like a great idea that capitalism.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:02 pm 
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FOWL wrote:
Capitalism has been dead since the invention of the income tax and governments borrowing money from private banking institutions. Too bad, seemed like a great idea that capitalism.
Yeah lol, now Capitalism just means we use income taxes and interest to
give all our capital to the central banks :shock:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:22 am 
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My definition of modern American capitalism is all the bad parts of socialism, with none of the good!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:52 pm 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
So do you think capitalism as we know it is coming to an end? Where will this crisis eventually lead the world? If the US breaks half the world, if not more, will economically sink as well...

GMs filled for bankruptcy! What was once the biggest corporation on earth is today broken. And let's face it, so is everything else on the wild market...

Next bubble to burst: credit card's debt...

Unfortunately history teaches us that after major economic crisis, generalized war ensues...


it's world war three, coming right up..., of course...

is that the right answer? what do I win?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:46 am 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
it's world war three, coming right up..., of course...

is that the right answer? what do I win?

Well Lumpy, as our Grand Prize winner on Sooo What, you win the following:

A year's supply of Turtle Wax
A ceramic dalmation repossessed from a Wheel Of Fortune winner who couldn't afford his taxes
30,000 shares of stock in AIG
Lessons in how to use chopsticks (you're gonna need 'em)
A copy the new album of Kim Il Sung singing selections from Oklahoma
A case of "I'm With Stupid" T shirts with the arrow pointing straight down
a free mullet from Bubba's House of Bait and Beauty
A six-pack of new lithium-flavored Pepsi Zero
Season three of Dog: The Bounty Hunter on DVD
A Rush Limbaugh bobble-head doll
An autographed picture of a finalist from Uzbekistan Idol
A genuine DEVO radiation suit
The missing nineteen minutes of the Nixon Tapes, where he argues with Henry Kissinger about whether to order anchovies on their pizza
A tissue sample from the Alien Autopsy
A two-night stay at the Raddisson Inn in El Paso, Texas
Fifty Disney Dollars
Nancy Pelosi's head on a platter
And a (dead) partridge in a (dead) pear tree

Congratulations...

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:08 am 
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karl marx said that capitalism was a necessary stage in the development communism. we couldn't have a truly communist world, withnout first seeing the devastating effects of an unbridled capitalist system. And by communism, i don't mean soviet or chinese communism, which were nothing like marxist communism. Anyway, i don't think it's the end of capitalism, just the end of American financial dominance. And although the chinese have embraced capitalism, they certainly haven't embraced liberal democracy, so unfortunately we may see develop an even worse form of capitalism than we have now, where we have no money and no freedom.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:52 am 
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MentalTossFlycoon wrote:

Congratulations...


THANX MTF! You made me laugh.
Mega-super :o

Scrute's right again, of course. Read a great book a few years ago that for one thing, talked about there being at least three main types of capitalism. Western 'laissez faire', Chinese and Russian style 'Managerial' capitalism and protection rackets like the mafia (tho forms of this exist in all countries). The author puts up the argument that these three forms will continue to go at each other for ascendancy. The next long war with the last one being between forms of government -- Nationalists, Socialists, and Parliamentary-style Constitutional governments. The author Phillip Bobbitt, says the Nationalists lost in WWII, and the western form of Parliamentary Constitutional gov beat out the Soviets with the edge brought by our tech industries. So this is the victory we've won, he says. With the fall of Wall Street and the credit mills and the Chinese holding the money, as Scrute points out, we will see how the 'Managerial' outlook plays itself around the world.
Ex:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =105285844

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:29 am 
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Every government is a mafia protectonist racket, they just manifest the free elements of their economies in different ways. The world only got a taste of free market economics, and it grew the largest middle class the world has ever seen, the moment the Federal Reserve was created and the countries coffers sucked into a black hole of escalating interest, the disparity between rich and poor has been growing, just like everywhere else on Earth.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:46 am 
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FOWL wrote:
Every government is a mafia protectonist racket, they just manifest the free elements of their economies in different ways. The world only got a taste of free market economics, and it grew the largest middle class the world has ever seen, the moment the Federal Reserve was created and the countries coffers sucked into a black hole of escalating interest, the disparity between rich and poor has been growing, just like everywhere else on Earth.


yeh FOWL, I think we basically agree. The difference I was tryin to point out is that where Governments have been an organizing principle of power, more and more it is the corporations and their money around which power revolves, instead of governments or multi-government organizations. Protection racket organizations, from the mob, to Mexican cartels to Al Qaeda (and all of them are not all bad like these) is an old school example of how money and power and 'security' coalesce.
A government at least pretends and sometimes succeeds in doin more. Case in point, Canada's government. It's also why the brits are all up in arms over corruption in Labour party, though obviously it's in both major parties. They're not used to the idea of government officials being nose-led by money and corporate deals.
Americans have known for so long we don't watch the news anymore...
Mafia style security/money/power arrangements as an econ 'model' don't answer to those they protect. Whereas gov't's still try to.
Managerial economies are rather totalitarian bureaucracies. The mafia, just totalitarian, to show a generalized difference.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:00 pm 
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Lumpy Gravy wrote:
it's world war three, coming right up..., of course...

is that the right answer? what do I win?
MentalTossFlycoon wrote:
Well Lumpy, as our Grand Prize winner on Sooo What, you win the following:

A year's supply of Turtle Wax
A ceramic dalmation repossessed from a Wheel Of Fortune winner who couldn't afford his taxes
30,000 shares of stock in AIG
Lessons in how to use chopsticks (you're gonna need 'em)
A copy the new album of Kim Il Sung singing selections from Oklahoma
A case of "I'm With Stupid" T shirts with the arrow pointing straight down
a free mullet from Bubba's House of Bait and Beauty
A six-pack of new lithium-flavored Pepsi Zero
Season three of Dog: The Bounty Hunter on DVD
A Rush Limbaugh bobble-head doll
An autographed picture of a finalist from Uzbekistan Idol
A genuine DEVO radiation suit
The missing nineteen minutes of the Nixon Tapes, where he argues with Henry Kissinger about whether to order anchovies on their pizza
A tissue sample from the Alien Autopsy
A two-night stay at the Raddisson Inn in El Paso, Texas
Fifty Disney Dollars
Nancy Pelosi's head on a platter
And a (dead) partridge in a (dead) pear tree

Congratulations...

sorry, rectal moss buffoon, my attitude is not so much Sooo What, as disappointed and cynical.
but, with your wise-guy, know-it-all-attitude, you'd probably say that's the same thing...

anyway, thanks for the prizes...

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:49 am 
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Do you think that pubic opinion is being duped by western media fronts to prepare people's mindset to go to war against Iran? I don't know myself... I know Iran is a very closed nation and not the exact role on Civil Rights and I wonder if there were International Observers in the election there. But it all seems so biased to me... I mean no one in the media seriously questioned the US 2000 fraud or the 2004 Skull and Bones Election...

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:12 am 
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Mr_Green_Genes wrote:
Do you think that pubic opinion is being duped by western media fronts to prepare people's mindset to go to war against Iran? I don't know myself... I know Iran is a very closed nation and not the exact role on Civil Rights and I wonder if there were International Observers in the election there. But it all seems so biased to me... I mean no one in the media seriously questioned the US 2000 fraud or the 2004 Skull and Bones Election...



i think iran is poorly represented in the western media. 80% of their electorate turned out at the recent presidential election, that's a huge amount and independent observers reported that all 4 candidates were fairly represented in the media and all 4 were given considerable airtime. So the iranian people chose their new president, depsite biased, western reportage to the contrary.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:27 pm 
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Capitalism flawed, says 1989 poll

Twenty years after the fall of the Berlin Wall, a new BBC poll has found widespread dissatisfaction with free-market capitalism.


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The fall of the wall looked like a crushing victory for capitalism

In the global poll for the BBC World Service, only 11% of those questioned across 27 countries said that it was working well.

Most thought regulation and reform of the capitalist system were necessary.

There were also sharp divisions around the world on whether the end of the Soviet Union was a good thing.

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A Frankfurt trader tries to deal during the 2008 banking crisis

Economic regulation

In 1989, as the Berlin Wall fell, it was a victory for ordinary people across Eastern and Central Europe.

It also looked at the time like a crushing victory for free-market capitalism.

Twenty years on, this new global poll suggests confidence in free markets has taken heavy blows from the past 12 months of financial and economic crisis.

More than 29,000 people in 27 countries were questioned. In only two countries, the United States and Pakistan, did more than one in five people feel that capitalism works well as it stands.

Almost a quarter - 23% of those who responded - feel it is fatally flawed. That is the view of 43% in France, 38% in Mexico and 35% in Brazil.

And there is very strong support around the world for governments to distribute wealth more evenly. That is backed by majorities in 22 of the 27 countries.

If there is one issue where a global consensus seems to emerge from the survey it is this: there are majorities almost everywhere wanting government to be more active in regulating business.

It is only in Turkey that a majority want less government regulation.

Opinion about the disintegration of the Soviet Union is sharply divided.

Europeans overwhelmingly say it was a good thing: 79% in Germany, 76% in Britain and 74% in France feel that way.

But outside the developed West it is a different picture. Almost seven in 10 Egyptians say the end of the Soviet Union was a bad thing and views are sharply divided in India, Kenya and Indonesia.

Image

Image

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/8347409.stm

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:05 am 
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Capitalism fell? I'm always the last to find out. Guess I better make some phone calls. Now I have more incentive to travel more than ever. Instead of worthless money I'll pay for my hotel expenses with a couple of pumpkins. :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:16 am 
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No capitalism didn't fall, it just smells funny...

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:07 am 
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Interesting statistics above, as according to Glenn Beck (who I obviously believe in EVERYTHING), the Germans have socialism/communism; for all that, they seem to like capitalism more than the US citizens.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:57 pm 
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Wow, Mr GG this is a tough question.
To be frank the possiblity of a 3rd WW seems very remote because there is an overwhelming power on one side
(to put it roughly the west) that faces only sporadic opposition in the form of isolated countries that are crushed
as soon as they represent the slightest form of threat.
But in a way we could say that since WWII the world has been in a permanent state of war:

China 1945-1946
Israel palestine/Arab neighbours 1948- ?
Korea 1950-1953
China 1950-1953
Guatemala 1954
Indonesia 1958
Cuba 1959-1960
Guatemala 1960
Belgian Congo 1964
Guatemala 1964
Dominica Republic 1964-1966
Peru 1965
Laos 1964-1973
Vietnam 1961-1973
Cambodia 1969-1970
Guatemala 1967-1969
Afganistan 1979- ?
Lebanon 1982-1984
Grenada 1983-1984
Libya 1986
El Salvador 1981-1992
Nicaragua 1981-1990
Iran 1987-1988
Libya 1989
Panama 1989-1990
Iraq 1989-2002
Kuwait 1991
Somalia 1992-1994
Croatia 1994
Bosnia 1995
Sudan 1998
Yugoslavia 1999
Afganistan 2001-2002
Iraq 2003- ?

A few things to mention here:
I am afraid to say that the west took an active part in all those wars.
I left out of the list a great number of revolutions, upheavals and inter-ethnic conficts i could have included
(Iran, Angola, Rwanda, Darfur...)
Compared to the wars of the past that involved a few thousand professional warriors on some fiels and hills,
the present day wars are much more bloody and make a much greater number of civilian casualties.
Scary.
Worth noting also that their number hasn't slow drastically since the fall of the soviet empire and that most of
them were started to crush national movements that wanted to keep or regain sovereignty and didn't want to comply
with the rules imposed by the superpowers.

For me, that's not capitalism or at least not how it should be - call it fachism, corporatism, imperialism whaterver you want.
This is so because the rules of democracy have been corrupted by the economic and financial power and has escaped the people.
(like Baddy said in an earlier post the order of powar is now:
1. Economy/finance
2. Governement
3. the people (who actually don't have any power at all anymore, they just aknowledge the governements that have been
chosen for them through a parody of democracy)

If you add to the picture the problem of peak oil - the growth of the last 2 centuries was due entierely to inventions of
course but mainly to fossil energy, i really think we're heading for a bleak future.
What will it be? I haven't got a clue.
Can something good come out of all this? I hope so.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 12:49 am 
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Excerpt: Michael Moore's 'Capitalism: A Love Story' - Pilots on Food Stamps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKQJx3L_CDQ

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:44 am 
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Here is a clip that explains it pretty well!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2kfAr2h ... re=channel

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:45 am 
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wouldn't want any depressing tube channel for a present. Have just seen the last kid turning into a full-scale businessman whole-time. Wonder what it says when it finds the planet is gone.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:04 am 
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The trouble with the collapse of the system is the loss pretty much of all services, the loss of life will be unheard of, no water, no food, no electricity, no phone, no computer...the unwashed masses will form into marauding hoards, what is left of the military will attempt to keep things caped, but most likely when the infrastructure falls things splinter fast. So unless you want to live in some post apocalyptic world that probably will look more like "The Road" than "The Road Warrior", remember there are a lot of real bad people out there (the criminal element, born & breed), lets just hope the system can be slowly changed.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:19 am 
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a bit of barter is okay, with funny talk along with. Do get obsessed, speak solely-minded occupied with it and ..aliens wouldn't want one phing from the planet anymore. Sombre times? that makes my Thesaurus actually open its eye for a moment. :cry:

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