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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:58 am 
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Rand Paul is not Ron Paul.

Rand is more of a Republican partisan than his father, willing to go along with party policies much more than his father is or was.

He is being groomed for a presidential run in 2016, which means he must cow-tow to party power, which means he must conform to his party's desires. He is riding his father's popularity, but he is not the anti-war, freedom loving Libertarian his father is...because he can't be, and still be "elected".


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:10 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:17 am 
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Caputh wrote:
I still think it is doubtful whether Ron Paul is a racist, or at least any more racist than many other politicians, both democrat and republican are. Equally, I don't think he is any more or less religious than many other politicians in the US. It also now appears that both the Republicans and the Democrats have been involved in perpetuating and increasing the power of the NSA, so I would criticize them all for it.
What I personally find distasteful (and it's just my opinion) is the economic policy he proposes. It just so happens that this economic policy is what makes him attractive for the right of the Republican party and what is interesting is the way what I would term the extreme right of the Republican party is increasingly beginning to embrace him and his son.

Ron Paul says to Laura Ingraham ( :!:) that "Rand and I are very close on the issues, he's a little bit better at presenting things"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnsbryJL ... e=youtu.be

(I seem to remember somebody suggesting that Rand and Ron did not share the same platform. It appears that they do and Ingraham approves).

And I'm afraid Sarah Palin has declared that she is now on "team [Rand] Paul" versus Chris Christie-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHQ1xCTs ... e=youtu.be (at around 4.45 if you can't be bothered to hear the rest of Sarah's gabbling).

With friends like that, who needs enemies?


He definitely is racist, and more-so than most people. He has his newsletters - http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/ ... wsletters/, flip-flopping about racist newsletters - http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/pol ... 52147878/1, his public racist statements - In 1996, Paul told TheDallas Morning News that his comment about black men in Washington came while writing about a 1992 study by the National Center on Incarceration and Alternatives, a criminal justice think tank in Virginia. Paul cited the study and wrote: "Given the inefficiencies of what DC laughingly calls the criminal justice system, I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.", his ties to a leader of a white supremacist leader - http://www.wnd.com/2007/12/45152/ and - http://ronpaulsupporters.com/white-power-groups/.


In other words....If the hood fits.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:23 am 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal

Racist!!!!


I think we can safely assume that 95% of the people in government are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.

Oh yeah, and Ron Paul is a puppet. Just like Obama.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:29 am 
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A rope leash wrote:
Rand Paul is not Ron Paul.

Rand is more of a Republican partisan than his father, willing to go along with party policies much more than his father is or was.

He is being groomed for a presidential run in 2016, which means he must cow-tow to party power, which means he must conform to his party's desires. He is riding his father's popularity, but he is not the anti-war, freedom loving Libertarian his father is...because he can't be, and still be "elected".


The question is - who is doing the grooming?
I think his father approves of Rand (honestly) and considers this the correct way to bring a "Libertarian" into a position of power. Like you, I support Ron's anti-war stance, but think that his support of the Austrian school of Economics (it's a mantra - listen to the Ingraham interview) is blind and Social-Darwinist.

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Last edited by Caputh on Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:31 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
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Ho, ho, ho, Downer.
Swastikas=Nazis=Germany=Funny

I assume this is all your own work?

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Last edited by Caputh on Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:35 am 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:

He definitely is racist, and more-so than most people.


In other words....If the hood fits.


He is possibly more racist than most people - but not more so than most politicians; remember e.g. Wallace?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:52 am 
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I'm not going to once again explain why the accusations of Ron Paul's racism are incorrect. That's old hash...he is a fervent supporter of the Declaration of Independence, including the phrase "all men are created equal".

I just watched the movie Lincoln. A good one everyone should watch. The Democrats of the day opposed the 13th Amendment abolishing slavery.

Ironic, I suppose, but it just provides evidence that labels can be misleading.

Let's say for a moment that Ron Paul is indeed a racist. He isn't an overt racist, and he is not rallying white people to engage in efforts against blacks. That would be a true racist.

But, even if he was a racist, there's no law against it. He would be free to be any sort of person he wishes, because that is what freedom is about. This is what many people including "free" Americans don't understand about freedom. A person is free to express himself and to be whatever he desires.

Taken in balance, if we pulled out from the wars, ended the drug war, reduced the size of the Federal government, stopped trying to police the entire world and started concentrating on our own country by building our own economy instead of sending our opportunities overseas...in essence, if our country was given back to the people and taken out of the hands of the few elite power brokers that now control it, it would not matter one jack shit to me if the person that made it happen was a racist.

Period.

Not one jack shit.

Because human beings are human beings. They are not perfect. If Ron Paul's alleged racism were to ever manifest itself in some sort of Nazi-like state that he controlled as a dictator, I would be very much surprised...because that is not what he is about, and I doubt he would ever let himself be used by people who are about that.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:59 am 
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Caputh wrote:
Ho, ho, ho, Downer.
Swastikas=Nazis=Germany=Funny

I assume this is all your own work?


This is from an anti war magazine published in 1965. It's not meant to be funny* but if you find humor in it, that's cool.


*It's meant to be thought provoking


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:37 am 
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O.K. - but what's your analysis of the thought provoking message?
Here's mine...
On the right, one has Germania (a symbol for Germany), swathed in a swastika flag. In her hand she holds a sword, dripping with blood. This indicates German/Nazi militarism.
On the left, one has an almost naked, slightly overweight US soldier, who is begging for mercy. This would seem to indicate that the decadent US is making itself subsurvient to German (=Nazi) miltarism. This is accentuated by the collapsing Statue of Liberty in the background.
Thus the caricature would seem to be decrying German/Nazi influence on the US in 1965.


But perhaps I'm completely wrong, as I've never seen the caricature in its context before. It would be interesting to know if there was an accompanying article. Is there an alternative interpretation?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:55 am 
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Caputh wrote:
Thus the caricature would seem to be decrying German/Nazi influence on the US in 1965.


Seems about right. After all, the US learned a lot about social engineering/behavior modification from the Nazis.

If there was any accompanying text I have not seen it.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:28 pm 
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Dr. Hate: A Documentary On Ron Paul - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixia1EOeQCE

Ron Paul Admits Writing Racist Newsletters In 1996 - Dallas Morning News - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dUDDSRKmEw

Ron Paul's Worst Newsletters - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF9KQsi4Cj8

Pathological LIARS Ron Paul & Rand Paul! (Drones/Boston Marathon Bombing) - Lawrence O'Donnell - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jbGIkna ... 30E8322D85

anti-"14th amendment to the constitution" statement made by hypocrite Ron Paul: No Birthright Citizenship (FOX Google Debate) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJgokQYs ... 30E8322D85

Ron Paul thinks Lincoln was a Socialist Communist starting at the 3:18 mark - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz3PZSLjhmA

between the above, and all of this...
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
Peter Thiel Is Ron Paul's Billionaire Sugar Daddy

Ron Paul may have an army of small donors but when it comes to billionaire sugar daddies, PayPal co-founder and early Facebook investor Peter Thiel is the financial stalwart of the campaign. According to campaign finance documents filed with the FEC on Monday, Thiel donated $1.7 million to Ron Paul-supporting super PAC Endorse Liberty in January, which amounted to over 70 percent of the $2.4 million it received for the month. Following donations of $150,000 and $750,000 donations made in December, the billionaire has given the PAC $2.6 million, accounting for 76 percent of its total fundraising.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics ... ddy/48933/


Is This Creepy Facebook-Friendly Startup Behind the NSA PRISM Program?

Palantir says it sells "software that allows organizations to make sense of massive amounts of disparate data," for purposes including "combating terrorism," and offers to bring "Silicon Valley to your doorstep." It's enjoyed early investments from the CIA, which might have something to do with its current napkin-valuation of around $5 billion, and now employs former top spooks like Michael Leiter. Palantir also happens to sell software called "Prism," which shares its namesake with an NSA spy program that also aims to bring Silicon Valley to snoop doorsteps around the Beltway. Palantir's Prism, according to a handy user manual published on TPM, "is a software component that lets you quickly integrate external databases"—exactly the kind of action that the NSA allegedly makes use of to suck up your Facebook browsing, Gmail inbox, and Google searches in realtime...

...Facebook was once a neighbor—directly across the street—of Palantir, at 156 University Avenue in Palo Alto. Peter Thiel, who sits on Facebook's board of directors and has mentored Mark Zuckerberg for close to a decade, is a co-founder of Palantir—though that detail is omitted from his bio on the board's website. Sean Parker, Facebook's notorious first president and another earlier investor, created the VC firm Founder's Fund along with Thiel—and yes, it invests in Palantir. As Facebook has spread into the brains of a billion users and completely saturated the United States, it's become one of the NSA's top targets via PRISM: Federal spies have “continued exponential growth in [surveillance] tasking to Facebook," says the Washington Post, and federal intel analysts enjoy "extensive search and surveillance capabilities against the variety of online social networking services.”...

http://valleywag.gawker.com/is-this-cre ... -511895177




Ron pauls single biggest donor and go to money guy is direstly tied to giving data to the NSA.



Some further reading about Ron Pauls primary donors direct ties to the NSA. -------> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125200842406984303.html


SPACEBROTHER wrote:
Peter Theil, primary Ron Paul money man, is directly implicated with handing your personal data to the NSA -------->


Palantir Technologies

Palantir was founded in 2004 by Peter Thiel, Alex Karp, Joe Lonsdale, Stephen Cohen, and Nathan Gettings. Early investments came in the form of $2 million from the CIA’s venture arm In-Q-Tel and $30 million from Thiel and his firm, The Founders Fund… Palantir’s name comes from the "seeing stones" in the Lord of the Rings.

Palantir was built through collaboration between computer scientists and analysts from intelligence agencies over three years, through pilots facilitated by In-Q-Tel. The software concept grew out of technology developed at PayPal to detect fraudulent activity, much of it conducted by Russian organized crime syndicates. The team realized that computers alone (Artificial Intelligence) could not defeat an adaptive adversary. Palantir allows human analysts to explore data from many sources.(Intelligence Augmentation)…

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/pris ... care-fraud


Big Data’: Bilderberg Firm Palantir Works for NSA Spy Agenda

“Paypal Mafia Don” Peter Thiel brings technocratic control of “big data” to the forefront of Bilderberg’s 2013 agenda via Silicon Valley’s partnership with the NSA and CIA.

The age of “big data” is reluctantly upon us, and it affects almost everything, as Bilderberg’s 2013 talking point suggests. Their secretive closed door discussion on massive stores of data, collected from the biggest portals on the Internet and analyzed in the pursuit of NSA objectives, is being led by Dr. Alexander Karp, the co-founder of Palantir Technologies.

The firm has admittedly been set-up with $2 million in seed money from In-Q-Tel, the private funding arm of the CIA, and the aid of Peter Thiel, Silicon Valley’s so-called “PayPal Mafia” Don who helps direct Bilderberg’s agenda and invitees as a member of its Steering Committee. Nart Villeneuve from Information Warfare Monitor, former Homeland Security chief Michael Chertoff – responsible for bringing full body scanners to airports – and former chess world champion Garry Kasparov, also a Bilderberg attendee, have all been invited to speak at Palantir discussions dubbed “Palantir Night Live.”

http://wchildblog.com/2013/06/10/big-da ... py-agenda/


Is This Mysterious Silicon Valley Company Helping The NSA Spy On Americans?

...Palantir (which, at time of writing, had not responded to requests for comment) was founded in 2004 by, among others, venture capitalist Peter Thiel and CEO Alex Karp. It's a sort of second-party data intelligence company--it's not a public company, but it was founded with early investment from the CIA and is heavily used by the military and the White House.

http://www.popsci.com/technology/articl ... -americans



Stay tuned. Much much more to come... :lol:


Quote:
What’s The Connection: Peter Thiel, Ron Paul, and the Bilderberg Group

Peter Thiel, the billionaire and co-founder of PayPal recently donated 2.5 million dollars to a superPAC that backs presidential candidate Ron Paul. The interesting thing here, and get ready for a shocker, is that Thiel happens to be a part of the Bilderberg Group and its steering committee!

Now, why would Peter Thiel, a seemingly evil investor and tech guru that invested in Facebook and has pushed an NSA spying agenda, donate to the Ron Paul campaign?

...Thiel, in recent weeks, has seemed to show himself to be an advocate for liberty and possibly his support for Ron Paul affirms that...

...Thiel is an insider to the highly secretive group, who uses the position to influence or report on their secret doings. He has had controversial views that have been expressed in talks at Stanford University though – arguing that there is a technological deceleration. “Whether we look at transportation, energy, commodity production, food production, agro-tech, nanotechnology – that with the exception of computers, we’ve had tremendous slowdown,” he says. Technology can be used for good – and bad.

Drones, spyplanes, backscatter imaging machines. They are all being abused, mistreated, and used for the nefarious against Americans and others. GMO too, is controversial...

Thiel may have something here; it’s all about what he advocates though. For this reason, maybe he endorses Ron Paul because of less control and more freedom to invent. That’s good, if it’s true. Yet, we might already know, he has endorsed NSA and has backed many of it’s projects, like Facebook.


http://planet.infowars.com/business/wha ... berg-group


...oh....but thats not all...


Ron Paul Wants to Abolish the CIA; His Largest Donor Builds Toys for It
Why does 76 percent of the civil libertarian’s Super PAC money come from billionaire Peter Thiel, whose Palantir Technologies helps the government spy on citizens?

If there’s one thing that distinguishes Ron Paul from the rest of the GOP field, it’s his principled stand against American empire and his ardent defense of individual liberties. Paul’s opposition to wars, bloated defense budgets and government espionage of US citizens has made him a hero among some young conservatives. His seemingly rock-solid principles and radicalism has even drawn some on the left; unlike even left-wing Democrats, Paul has said he wants to abolish both the CIA and the FBI to protect individual “liberty.”

So it should come as a shock and disappointment to his followers that Ron Paul’s single largest donor—his Sheldon Adelson, as it were—founded a controversial defense contractor, Palantir Technologies, that profits from government espionage work for the CIA, FBI and other agencies, and which last year was caught organizing an illegal spy ring targeting American political opponents of the US Chamber of Commerce, including journalists, progressive activists and union leaders. (Palantir takes its name from the mystic stones used by characters in Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings to spy one another.)

According to recently filed FEC disclosure documents, Ron Paul’s Super PAC has received nearly all of its money from a single source, billionaire Peter Thiel. So far, Thiel has contributed $2.6 million to Ron Paul’s Super PAC, Endorse Liberty, providing 76 percent of the Super PAC’s total intake.

Thiel, a self-described libertarian and opponent of democracy who made his fortune as the founder of PayPal, launched Palantir in 2004 to profit from what the Wall Street Journal described as “the government spy-services marketplace.” The CIA’s venture capital firm, In-Q-Tel, was brought in to back up Thiel as one of Palantir’s first outside investors. Today, Palantir’s valuation is reported to be in the billions.

A recent Businessweek profile explained how Palantir makes its money—and why Ron Paul’s followers should be bothered:

Depending where you fall on the spectrum between civil liberties absolutism and homeland security lockdown, Palantir’s technology is either creepy or heroic. Judging by the company’s growth, opinion in Washington and elsewhere has veered toward the latter. Palantir has built a customer list that includes the U.S. Defense Dept., CIA, FBI, Army, Marines, Air Force, the police departments of New York and Los Angeles, and a growing number of financial institutions trying to detect bank fraud. These deals have turned the company into one of the quietest success stories in Silicon Valley—it’s on track to hit $250 million in sales this year—and a candidate for an initial public offering. Palantir has been used to find suspects in a case involving the murder of a U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement special agent, and to uncover bombing networks in Syria, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. “It’s like plugging into the Matrix,” says a Special Forces member stationed in Afghanistan who requested anonymity out of security concerns. “The first time I saw it, I was like, ‘Holy crap. Holy crap. Holy crap.’ ”

It gets worse: the technologies and know-how acquired over years of spying on suspected foreign terrorists and threats were turned to private, political use against US citizens. In what became known last year as the “Chamber-Gate” scandal, Palantir was outed by Anonymous as the lead outfit in a private espionage consortium with security technology companies HBGary and Berico; the groups spent months “creating electronic dossiers on political opponents of the Chamber through illicit means.”

Thiel’s Palantir and its two intelligence contractor partners—collectively named “Team Themis”after the Roman goddess of law and order—proposed to the Chamber’s lawyers a plan that involved illegal cyber-espionage against the Chamber’s enemies, including targeting activists’ families and children. Among those targeted: ThinkProgress, union leaders, MoveOn, Brad Friedman and Glenn Greenwald, whose support for Wikileaks reportedly rankled Chamber member Bank of America.

Thiel has funded a number of far-right-wing causes over the years: He was an early investor in conservative filmmaker James O’Keefe’s career, funding a video called “Taxpayer’s Clearing House,” which shows O’Keefe duping working-class minorities into believing they’d won a sweepstakes, only to stick them with a tax bill for the bailouts. O’Keefe, of course, later produced the infamous ACORN and Planned Parenthood videos and was also charged with entering a federal building under false pretenses in an attempt to wiretap the offices of US Senator Mary Landrieu. Thiel was a member of the right-wing Federalist Society while at Stanford Law School, and he co-authored an anti–affirmative action book, The Diversity Myth: Multiculturalism and Political Intolerance on Campus—a book that belittles “imaginary oppressors” of minorities...

http://www.thenation.com/article/166421 ... z2WFYNuic6

...the people who believe in the Ron Paul utopian fantasy, but ignore and deny his sordid history are only fooling themselves.


I agree with DM on one point about RP being a puppet, just like the rest of them.

The Ron Paul fantasy is nothing but an illusion of fairies and pixiedust...
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 2:06 pm 
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Wow. A politician that takes money from corporate players? Say it isn't so!

Many people from the south see Lincoln as a dictator. In a lot of ways, he was.

The newsletters are bullshit. He didn't write them, and he has disavowed them...

...and, it doesn't matter. He is anti-establishment, which means he is anti-Washington, which is a-ok with me. These fuckers have been screwing us for decades, so why would any citizen continue to support them?

Ron Paul is pretty much out of politics, as far as elected office goes. So why beat up on him?

Obama promised change and gave more of the same oppressive bullshit. Beat on him.

Ron Paul could not be worse than Obama, no way. At least Ron has the balls to stand by his convictions, and not backpedal. Obama is a hypocrite, and a liar. Big time. His supporters are fools, and his apologists are criminals, war criminals, just like him.

Ron Paul isn't perfect, but his ideas have merit. The change he would have brought would have been real change...end the Fed, end the Empire, end the bullshit.

Start anew.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:20 pm 
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A rope leash wrote:

Ron Paul is pretty much out of politics, as far as elected office goes. So why beat up on him?



I'll see your claim, and up you one. Why waste over 60 pages even discussing him at all? It's ok to talk about him if you support him, but not if you don't? Keep in mind, I have no particular problem with the man, other than the fact that I personally view him as the same as most other politicians. Republican, Democrat, Independent, they are all corrupt. Still, obsolete topic that has become the bloodiest pulp of a dead horse I may have ever seen on the internet. Maybe it's just me.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:58 pm 
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duchamp wrote:
A rope leash wrote:

Ron Paul is pretty much out of politics, as far as elected office goes. So why beat up on him?



Why waste over 60 pages even discussing him at all?


You do know that you're talking about taking Spacer's life away , right ?

:mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:06 pm 
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:mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:15 pm 
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Many pages of this dead horse were spent defending the supporters of Ron Paul from libelous accusations of racism. The title itself implies that supporters of Ron Paul are all keeping Ron Paul's "racist agenda" secret.

It's bullshit and must be challenged and refuted. This thread should have died months ago, but the OP insists on keeping it afloat. It's okay to just ignore it, I suppose, but that's boring.

I keep thinking I can say just one more thing to have the horse buried, or rendered, but I forget that all information is suspect and subject to bias and misguided interpretation, and that arguments not formed in reason cannot be fought with reason.

Let it rot.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:51 pm 
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:smoke:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:05 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Oh yeah, and Ron Paul is a puppet.


There's this thing called proof and backing up claims with evidence. Look into it...

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:28 pm 
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So many points I could repudiate, but I'll just address this one in this post...

A rope leash wrote:
...The newsletters are bullshit. He didn't write them, and he has disavowed them...
...At least Ron has the balls to stand by his convictions, and not backpedal....


SPACEBROTHER wrote:
Ron Paul Admits Writing Racist Newsletters In 1996 - Dallas Morning News - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dUDDSRKmEw


Ron Paul admitted to writing them, and backed every single point made in every one of them, before he back peddled by disavowing or denial of knowing what was in them after the fact, and only when he came under fire for them. It's what politicians do. They lie, and Ron Paul is no different than the rest of the lying sack-o-shit scumbag politicians.


By stating that Lincoln was a dictator is about as un-American of a statement that anybody could make. If Ron Paul was a true Libertarian, he would support ALL of the Constitution. Not just the parts that fit into he and his xenophobic support bases wacky Neo Nazi agenda.


...and yes, Ron Paul supporters want nothing more than to conceal his real agenda, or at the very least, deny the facts because they cling to some non-existent utopian fairy tale. The points I've made about him have all been proven factual beyond any and all reasonable doubt.

Duchamp wrote:
... I personally view him as the same as most other politicians. Republican, Democrat, Independent, they are all corrupt.


Bingo. He is exactly like the rest of them. Crooked lying corrupt scum.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:02 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Caputh wrote:
Thus the caricature would seem to be decrying German/Nazi influence on the US in 1965.


Seems about right. After all, the US learned a lot about social engineering/behavior modification from the Nazis.

If there was any accompanying text I have not seen it.


Actually, having looked at the site where this comes from (although incompetently enough I couldn't find the actual picture), I would guess that this is a French caricature from the 60s. I would speculate that a) that only the French would dare print a drawing in any paper showing a bare breasted woman in 1965 b) that only the French still used Germania as a universal symbol c) that the style is "kind of French".
I might be wrong, but it would appear that this a French criticism of American kowtowing to Germany, possibly in NATO, where there were rumours that France was going to withdraw completely, partly because they didn't like the way the Germans were playing a larger role and partly because they were against US domination of NATO.

So thought-provoking; thanks after all.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:33 pm 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
Bingo. He is exactly like the rest of them. Crooked lying corrupt scum.

WOW...Spacebro admits Obama is crooked, lying, corrupt and even scum !

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:17 pm 
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Caputh wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
Caputh wrote:
Thus the caricature would seem to be decrying German/Nazi influence on the US in 1965.


Seems about right. After all, the US learned a lot about social engineering/behavior modification from the Nazis.

If there was any accompanying text I have not seen it.


Actually, having looked at the site where this comes from (although incompetently enough I couldn't find the actual picture), I would guess that this is a French caricature from the 60s. I would speculate that a) that only the French would dare print a drawing in any paper showing a bare breasted woman in 1965 b) that only the French still used Germania as a universal symbol c) that the style is "kind of French".
I might be wrong, but it would appear that this a French criticism of American kowtowing to Germany, possibly in NATO, where there were rumours that France was going to withdraw completely, partly because they didn't like the way the Germans were playing a larger role and partly because they were against US domination of NATO.

So thought-provoking; thanks after all.


I apologize Caputh, I meant to give you more info but I had people waiting for me as I was making that last post. Plus, I didn't realize how curious you were about the picture. Your first thoughts were actually closer to whatever the artist intended. This is indeed an American magazine. They were indeed gutsy (or perhaps the 'zine was bait put together by the CIA. ha!). I put it up as an American comment on how Nazi-like certain Americans continue to be.


The 'zine was created and published by the Dunker brothers between 1965 and 1969. I referenced this zine a couple of weeks ago. I saw it advertised in an old National Lampoon I found. It's called Horseshit. For real. Issue three came out in 1968. I've since found that the picture was from issue three. I initially thought it was from issue 1. There was one more issued in 1969. 4 total. They sell online for about 100 American dollars a set (all 4). Anyway......Your initial instincts seemed pretty right on. Not surprisingly.

Let me just add that I've never read the magazine and I am not promoting it. I don't really know what it's all about. Seems like it could be a little creepy. I find the fact that it exists fascinating. At first I thought it was a mock Lampoon ad.

Here's the page with the picture in question and a few more thought provoking pics. http://ubupopland.com/ubu_papers/11_01_ ... anzine.htm
Here's an article about the magazine.http://www.vice.com/read/the-offensive-review-802-v18n5


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:10 am 
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Thanks for the info! :) Obviously, if you call your mag "Horseshit", you're not going to shy away from depicting breasts! :oops:
Interesting that the symbol of Germania was used in the US so late. I wonder how many US forumers would recognize her as representing Germany today (without the swastika, of course)?

Actually - the mag looks a bit ahead of its time - and thus interesting!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:51 am 
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A rope leash wrote:
Rand Paul is not Ron Paul.

Rand is more of a Republican partisan than his father, willing to go along with party policies much more than his father is or was.

He is being groomed for a presidential run in 2016, which means he must cow-tow to party power, which means he must conform to his party's desires. He is riding his father's popularity, but he is not the anti-war, freedom loving Libertarian his father is...because he can't be, and still be "elected".


Quite agree with what some are saying about Rand....

As I posted a couple of years ago, Rand said he did not support Bush's full on invasion of Afghanistan, HOWEVER he said he would have supported special ops missions (and if my fallible memory serves, "a few thousand troops"), to get bin Laden.

That breaks my first rule of trading innocents for ones goals.

The next problem is that we were not under attack, nor imminent attack from Afghanistan, therefore such an incursion breaks both International Law, as well as our Constitution which presently by treaty binds us to International Law as "supreme law of the land."

The CLINCHER came near the end of the 2012 election cycle when Rand endorsed Romney. Romney was endorsing bombing kids, so that was the end of Rand for me. It is evil to endorse bombing kids...he wouldn't bomb his own kids, Obama wouldn't bomb his own kids, sb wouldn't bomb his own kids, therefore endorsing bombing other's kids (or endorsing those who do or intend to), is hypocritical.

So unless Rand makes a sweeping statement recognizing a serious mistake (unlikely), then he remains in the evil column for endorsing bombing children.

BTW, it did cause a rift between Rand and his father, he endorsed Romney right before Thanksgiving and it cause family difficulties.

With that said, Rand has done some good things in the areas of fighting the Bush/Obama incursions into privacy, and devaluation of our dollar in favor of taxpayer bailouts for the rich bankers...but it's not worth bombing kids for.

I think Rand will run for prez in 2016, but without a major turnaround in this bombing attitude, (very unlikely), I will not give him a dime, and I will speak against him as I did Bush and do now Obama.

And with all that said... it seems the willingness to bomb innocent children" turns out to be a pretty good litmus test...

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August 12, 2013

The Apple Falls From the Tree

Rand Paul Sells Out


by RALPH NADER


Senator Rand Paul is widening the difference between his father, the long-time former Congressman from Texas whose “no” votes on principle, whether you agree or not, have shaped his place in history. See his lengthy farewell address upon retiring from the House of Representatives Ron Paul has just established the non-profit Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity.

The differences between father and son are ones of personality, policy and opportunism. Since Rand Paul is intent on running for president in 2016, his drift toward the corporatist Republicans is noteworthy.

Senator Rand Paul appears sterner. He is also far less likely to return calls than his father. When he was running for the Kentucky Senate Seat in 2010, I made several calls to ask whether he intended to support the bills his father was proposing in the House, including the legalization of growing industrial hemp in the U.S. for food, energy, clothing, paper lubricants and many other uses. He never responded, even though he was called by the Louisville Courier Journal on this subject. (Senator Paul has now sponsored legalization of industrial hemp cultivation.)

Soon I realized that others had difficulty in reaching him both during his campaign and since then. In 2010, his campaign director did tell me that when Rand Paul becomes Senator, he would go after the overblown military budget.

Remembering that assurance, I was more than surprised to learn how far Rand Paul has moved from his libertarian/conservative base. Here are two recent statements of his that received little coverage.

Last month, the Associated Press reported Senator Paul saying:

“They’re precisely the same people who are unwilling to cut the spending and their “Gimme, gimme, gimme—give me all the Sandy [Hurricane Sandy] money now,’ those are the people who are bankrupting the government and not letting enough money be left over for national defense.”

A few days later on August 6, Senator Paul was at Fort Campbell in Kentucky where he said: “If we were to cut somewhere else in the budget, I would try to restore some money to the military.”

Well, well, the corporatists and crony capitalists may have a new recruit—Rand Paul—who is not heeding President Dwight Eisenhower’s famous caveat about the military industrial complex in his 1961 farewell address to the American people.

Kentucky has numerous military installations and military contractors who must be quite pleased with how Rand Paul has dropped his fathers’ notable opposition to the bloated military budget and the imperial consequences of empire building. Meanwhile, Senator Paul has little trouble on another spending front—namely that Kentucky gets $1.51 back for every tax dollar it sends to Washington D.C.

Newt Gingrich—a military empire builder if there ever was one—is now praising Rand Paul in the Washington Times.

Libertarians do not like sovereignty-shredding authoritarian trade agreements such as NAFTA and the GATT. Rand Paul not only declines to challenge the autocratic systems of transnational governance created by these agreements that drive ‘corporate managed trade,’ but he votes for more drastic bilateral extensions with South Korea and Colombia.

Senator Paul received much deserved publicity in March when he spoke for 13 hours on the Senate floor against drone warfare and the extent of the President’s right to commit homicide. That led some commentators to say he positioned himself ahead of the pack for 2016. The Senator has discovered showhorsing—get all the publicity but hold back from continuing to seriously workhorse the issue.

Mr. Paul did the same last year when he voted against the National Defense Authorization Act which contained a provision that many argue authorizes the president to arrest anyone suspected of terrorist support or activity and jail them without charges. Rand Paul turned down pleas from some of his outside political advisors to put “a hold” on the bill that would have intensified his opposition and aroused the public. That signaled Senator Paul had complied with the demand of the Senate Republican leadership club.

Senator Paul refers often to the Constitution and its preamble that starts with “we the people.” But his votes seem to reflect that he supports big business, including big oil, gaining more power over the people or at the expense of the people. Surely he knows that nowhere in the U.S Constitution do the words “corporation” or “company” appear.

Perhaps political ambition also has deterred physician (ophthalmologist) Rand Paul from applying the Hippocratic Oath (never do harm) in the Senate. He voted with 46 Senators who wished to rollback violent toxic emissions (including mercury) from electric power plants.

There was a time when the corporate state in Washington, D.C. was anxious about candidate Rand Paul. They thought he would defiantly oppose their many corporate welfare benefits, instead of just pitching words. They sensed that he would be the hairshirt and watchdog over the lucrative, wasteful military budget and militarism abroad. The anxiety is gone. The word around the world of corporate lobbying inside the Beltway is that Rand Paul is becoming “bankable.”

So much for his fellow Kentuckians back home who don’t have Inc. after their names. For these people, Rand Paul will continue to voice unlimited free market rhetoric. None of that will help hardworking folks earn a decent livelihood with life-saving full Medicare and free choice of doctors and hospitals—or safer environments. Those are visions that Ophthalmologist Rand Paul did not learn much about in medical school.


On the matters of corporatism, Empire, militarism, the big Wall Street banks, crony capitalism and the unlawful, repressive national security bureaucracy, Rand Paul is being pulled from his father’s positions by the pressure of Republicans who thrive off the corporate state. His libertarian base will have to weigh in before the tipping point of political ambition confronts his first supporters.

Ralph Nader is a consumer advocate, lawyer and author of Only the Super-Rich Can Save Us! He is a contributor to Hopeless: Barack Obama and the Politics of Illusion, published by AK Press. Hopeless is also available in a Kindle edition.

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