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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:22 pm 
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Caputh wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
FZ rejected some of their platform...


And he accepted some of their platform...


But he accepted most of it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flsh-vcWqf4

:53 - :57...

"...I'm absolutely a Libertarian on MANY issues..."

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"...I'm absolutely a Libertarian on MANY issues..." ~ Frank Zappa, Rochester, NY, March 11, 1988


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:40 pm 
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Great. Now what?

Let's argue about how Italian Frank was. Are his views ever Italian- based? Did he like pasta with garlic sauce and some crusty bread?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:46 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Great. Now what?

Let's argue about how Italian Frank was. Are his views ever Italian- based? Did he like pasta with garlic sauce and some crusty bread?

I remember one quote from Frank where he said that "even though I am Italian I have no desire to retire and grow tomatoes". I believe he did like pizza though.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:50 pm 
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Pizza?? Can you get me a quote?? And a source? Did he ever watch The Godfather? I just knew his beliefs were Italian-based! As sure as that pizza sauce is garlic-based.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:40 am 
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Like Pizza? You must be joking - he had his own pizzeria!
I've got the link to prove it!
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Zappas-P ... 2028474527

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:19 am 
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Its true Caputh. I have more PROOF! That restaurant is a couple miles from where I work. Here are a few pics of the catering menu. Who knew FZ liked potatoes in so many ways? I included my ipod in each pic for 1st person verification in case anyone hints that you are incorrect.

Image

Image

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:01 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Great. Now what?

I think we should discuss the difference between libertarians, conservatives and socialists.
Should be pretty straight forward...
TT

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:04 pm 
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"...but then you turn a page and it says if a guy owns a lunch counter, but he doesn't want to have a black man eating at his lunch counter, he can turn him away. It's hard to balance that stuff out and be, you know, a doctrinaire Libertarian candidate if their own platform doesn't quite add up..." ~ Frank Zappa - Interview & Chunga's Revenge, NY 1988


Frank Zappa slamming Libertarians. Looks like Disco Douche gets it wrong once again. ROTMFFLMMFAO :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:20 pm 
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:53 - :57...

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:13 am 
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Glad to see that you admit that you're are in denial...

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:59 pm 
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tweedle-dumb wrote:
Glad to see that you admit that you're are in denial...

Image


And how do these quotes detract from Ron Paul's consistency or integrity? :roll:

tweedle-dumb wrote:
Image


If that's true (which, of course, it's not), then why didn't he accept lobbyist bribes? And why did he return $500,000 of his operating budget that his office never spent to the US Treasury? :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:48 am 
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Disco Boy wrote:
tweedle-dumb wrote:
Glad to see that you admit that you're are in denial...

Image


And how do these quotes detract from Ron Paul's consistency or integrity? :roll:



I'm honestly not taking sides and perhaps I'm completely wrong, but I think the accusation here is that Ron Paul says it has nothing to do with their skin color and then goes on to use skin pigmentation in order to classify said group. In addition, the statement is made that "Libertarians... see people in [a] group", not in terms of skin pigmentation and as "individuals"; he then goes on to distinguish between different (ethnic) groups.
Tip: the words in italics are possibly a giveaway of the author's intent.

Perhaps you should confront it head on?

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Last edited by Caputh on Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:27 am 
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The term "Collectivism" and its variations are making the rounds lately since Charles Koch sent a letter to Congress.

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/04/05/charles-koch-advocates-freedom-conform-kochism.html

Upon receiving the letter, Senator Moran (R-Kansas) quickly gave him a coupon for unlimited blowjobs and then read his letter on the Senate floor:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/03/1289398/-Sen-Moran-performs-ultimate-in-constituent-services-by-reading-Charles-Koch-s-op-ed-on-Senate-floor#

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:26 am 
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Seems there is an even more aggressive want to buy politicians and ideology , with the dems, and progressive candidates receiving HUGE dollars for reelection from unions, far out spending the koch bros. By a long shot and evidence of that corruption is found every where, from special waivers to unions for the aca, and law changing. Obama makes no bones about it either this along with Mr sorous and media matters and the like are shameful. This administration is the most corrupt I have seen in my 65 years. Interesting how the low information voters of today have been duped. How does every one like the government trying to organize health care, damn glad i'm not between 25 and 40 as pertains to the aca.
Simply put these guys not only are buying votes but lying about their policies , just keep promising crap and having no regard for real economic development could any one here run up a debt like the us has now and survive?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:12 pm 
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http://hollywoodlife.com/2014/04/06/jay ... re-devils/



Thought he was bigger than that.
:roll:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:15 pm 
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Who is Jay Z, and why should anybody care?



signed the Devil :twisted:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:46 pm 
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Exactly, but you know damn well he represents and influences a rather large chunk of society.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:55 pm 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
Exactly, but you know damn well he represents and influences a rather large chunk of society.


True that YO.......as they say

been watching too much Breaking Bad :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:26 pm 
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Caputh wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
tweedle-dumb wrote:
Glad to see that you admit that you're are in denial...

Image


And how do these quotes detract from Ron Paul's consistency or integrity? :roll:



I'm honestly not taking sides and perhaps I'm completely wrong, but I think the accusation here is that Ron Paul says it has nothing to do with their skin color and then goes on to use skin pigmentation in order to classify said group. In addition, the statement is made that "Libertarians... see people in [a] group", not in terms of skin pigmentation and as "individuals"; he then goes on to distinguish between different (ethnic) groups.
Tip: the words in italics are possibly a giveaway of the author's intent.

Perhaps you should confront it head on?


Uhhh...according the to second quote, unless Ron Paul is oddly referring to himself, it isn't his quote. In fact, according to the above, there is NO person associated with the second quote. And regardless if it was his quote or not, if someone really wants to semantically entangle themselves in a thorough debate over this, then depending on the context of the FULL statement which isn't provided, it appears the speaker is discussing black people specifically as a collective and probably wouldn't be able to make their point without referring to them any other way...

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:33 pm 
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I think he is pretty obviously, even from this source, "oddly" referring to himself. It says: "Two minutes later..."

Here is the original CNN source and he is...
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... om.02.html
"BLITZER: All right. Let's talk about it. How could this happen? Because I have gone through some of these old Ron Paul newsletters. It has your name bannered on the top. And some of these comments as we've just heard from Brian's piece are pretty shocking.

PAUL: It is. And of course it's been rehashed for a long time and it's coming up now for political reasons. But everybody in my district knows I didn't write them. And I don't speak like that. Nobody has ever heard me say anything like that. I've been reelected time and time again. So everybody knows I don't participate in that type of language.

But the point is when you bring the question up you're really saying, you're a racist or are you a racist? And the answer is no. I'm not a racist. As a matter of fact Rosa Parks is one of my heroes. Martin Luther King is a hero. Because they practiced the libertarian principle of civil disobedience, nonviolence.

Libertarians are incapable of being a racist because racism is a collectivist idea. You see people in group. A civil libertarian like myself see everybody as an important individual. It's not the color of their skin that is important. As Martin Luther King said. What is important is the character of the people. What's really interesting, though, and this might be behind it because as a Republican candidate I'm getting the most support from black voters and now that has to be undermined.

And I do this because I attack two wars that blacks are suffering from. One, the war overseas. And all wars minorities suffer the most. So they join me in this position I have against the war in Iraq. And what about the war on drugs? What other candidates will stand up and say I will pardon all blacks, all whites, everybody who were convicted for non-violent drug acts and drug crimes.

And this is where the real discrimination is. Let me finish this. Because I've got to get my message back because you put the other message out. I got to get my message back. Now, if you want to look for discrimination, it's the judicial system. Fourteen percent of the inner city blacks commit drug crime. Sixty seven percent of blacks are in prison. That's discrimination. That's the judicial code that I'm attacking. That's not racism.

What I defend the principle of libertarianism where we never see people who belong to a group, and every individual is defended and protected because they're important as an individual, not because of the color of their skin, but because of their character. So I am the antiracist because I am the only candidate, Republican or Democrat who were protect the minority against these vicious drug laws.

BLITZER: Congressman, there's a lot of material there. Let me just try figure out, how did this stuff get in these Ron Paul newsletters? Who wrote it?

PAUL: I have no idea. Have you ever heard a publisher of a magazine not knowing every single thing? The editor is responsible for the daily activities. People came and gone. And there were people who were hired. I don't know any of their names. I absolutely honestly do not know who wrote those things. But I do know they was a transition, there were changes around and, to me, it's been rehashed. This is the politics of it all. If it were important enough, why didn't the people in my district who have heard this for these 10 years or so that this came up and people believe me. Why don't you believe me and just say look, it's in there. It's bad. I recognize that. I had a moral responsibility.

But that doesn't mean that you can indirectly charge me as being a racist. That's what is being done, and yet, I am the most anti- racist because I don't see people in collective groups. And I practice. Right now, even before this thing broke, guess when our next fundraising day, our next super day, we raised four million one day, six on the next, the next one is on Martin Luther King holiday. I mean, this is it. Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, Gandhi, they are the heroes in practice of civil disobedience to try to get the burden of government off our backs.

And that's why I am the one that protects the individual blacks who are in the city who are so unfairly being treated and thrown in prison. That's the message that needs to be heard and I appreciate somebody help and bring that out rather than nitpicking over something done many years ago which I did not write.

BLITZER: Did you used to read these newsletters? Congressman?

PAUL: Not back then. There may have been at times that I would. At times. I was in a medical practice. I traveled a lot. I was doing speeches around the country. Very frequently I never did see these. A lot of the things you just read, I wouldn't have recognized them.

And the point is it's not part of my character. The point also is when people get charged they usually have a clip. They have a clip of somebody saying something. A slip of the tongue or something. And then they're blasted to kingdom come. Nobody has ever heard me say that. They know those are not my thoughts. Therefore the people have not rejected me in Texas.

In a way this is a bit of a witch hunt. I know there is reason, I don't say you are unjustified in asking the question but you also have to think of the motivation behind this. Maybe this is part of the anti Ron Paul deal. I got excluded from the debates the other night. Maybe this is knock down on Ron Paul because he's gaining grounds with the blacks. I'm getting more votes right now and more support from the blacks because they understand what I'm talking about and they trust me."

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Last edited by Caputh on Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:18 pm 
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So there it is in it's full context, right out of Ron Paul's mouth...

...discussing his newsletters...
Image
Image
Image
Image

...cavorting and accepting money from this guy...
Image

Image

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:03 pm 
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So , is Jay Z a racist as well as Ron Paul ??


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:49 pm 
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Caputh wrote:
I think he is pretty obviously, even from this source, "oddly" referring to himself. It says: "Two minutes later..."

Here is the original CNN source and he is...
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... om.02.html
"BLITZER: All right. Let's talk about it. How could this happen? Because I have gone through some of these old Ron Paul newsletters. It has your name bannered on the top. And some of these comments as we've just heard from Brian's piece are pretty shocking.

PAUL: It is. And of course it's been rehashed for a long time and it's coming up now for political reasons. But everybody in my district knows I didn't write them. And I don't speak like that. Nobody has ever heard me say anything like that. I've been reelected time and time again. So everybody knows I don't participate in that type of language.

But the point is when you bring the question up you're really saying, you're a racist or are you a racist? And the answer is no. I'm not a racist. As a matter of fact Rosa Parks is one of my heroes. Martin Luther King is a hero. Because they practiced the libertarian principle of civil disobedience, nonviolence.

Libertarians are incapable of being a racist because racism is a collectivist idea. You see people in group. A civil libertarian like myself see everybody as an important individual. It's not the color of their skin that is important. As Martin Luther King said. What is important is the character of the people. What's really interesting, though, and this might be behind it because as a Republican candidate I'm getting the most support from black voters and now that has to be undermined.

And I do this because I attack two wars that blacks are suffering from. One, the war overseas. And all wars minorities suffer the most. So they join me in this position I have against the war in Iraq. And what about the war on drugs? What other candidates will stand up and say I will pardon all blacks, all whites, everybody who were convicted for non-violent drug acts and drug crimes.

And this is where the real discrimination is. Let me finish this. Because I've got to get my message back because you put the other message out. I got to get my message back. Now, if you want to look for discrimination, it's the judicial system. Fourteen percent of the inner city blacks commit drug crime. Sixty seven percent of blacks are in prison. That's discrimination. That's the judicial code that I'm attacking. That's not racism.

What I defend the principle of libertarianism where we never see people who belong to a group, and every individual is defended and protected because they're important as an individual, not because of the color of their skin, but because of their character. So I am the antiracist because I am the only candidate, Republican or Democrat who were protect the minority against these vicious drug laws.

BLITZER: Congressman, there's a lot of material there. Let me just try figure out, how did this stuff get in these Ron Paul newsletters? Who wrote it?

PAUL: I have no idea. Have you ever heard a publisher of a magazine not knowing every single thing? The editor is responsible for the daily activities. People came and gone. And there were people who were hired. I don't know any of their names. I absolutely honestly do not know who wrote those things. But I do know they was a transition, there were changes around and, to me, it's been rehashed. This is the politics of it all. If it were important enough, why didn't the people in my district who have heard this for these 10 years or so that this came up and people believe me. Why don't you believe me and just say look, it's in there. It's bad. I recognize that. I had a moral responsibility.

But that doesn't mean that you can indirectly charge me as being a racist. That's what is being done, and yet, I am the most anti- racist because I don't see people in collective groups. And I practice. Right now, even before this thing broke, guess when our next fundraising day, our next super day, we raised four million one day, six on the next, the next one is on Martin Luther King holiday. I mean, this is it. Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, Gandhi, they are the heroes in practice of civil disobedience to try to get the burden of government off our backs.

And that's why I am the one that protects the individual blacks who are in the city who are so unfairly being treated and thrown in prison. That's the message that needs to be heard and I appreciate somebody help and bring that out rather than nitpicking over something done many years ago which I did not write.

BLITZER: Did you used to read these newsletters? Congressman?

PAUL: Not back then. There may have been at times that I would. At times. I was in a medical practice. I traveled a lot. I was doing speeches around the country. Very frequently I never did see these. A lot of the things you just read, I wouldn't have recognized them.

And the point is it's not part of my character. The point also is when people get charged they usually have a clip. They have a clip of somebody saying something. A slip of the tongue or something. And then they're blasted to kingdom come. Nobody has ever heard me say that. They know those are not my thoughts. Therefore the people have not rejected me in Texas.

In a way this is a bit of a witch hunt. I know there is reason, I don't say you are unjustified in asking the question but you also have to think of the motivation behind this. Maybe this is part of the anti Ron Paul deal. I got excluded from the debates the other night. Maybe this is knock down on Ron Paul because he's gaining grounds with the blacks. I'm getting more votes right now and more support from the blacks because they understand what I'm talking about and they trust me."


AGAIN, it doesn't matter. Regardless, if someone really wants to semantically entangle themselves in a thorough debate over this, considering the FULL context of the statement, RP is discussing black people specifically as a collective and probably wouldn't have been able to make his point without referring to them any other way...

This is splitting hairs to the max. :roll:

Meanwhile, tweedle-dumb still needs to read this entire thread over again. Here's the link to the 1st page:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19887

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:13 am 
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Sorry, but this just needs to be here. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:06 am 
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Disco Boy wrote:

AGAIN, it doesn't matter. Regardless, if someone really wants to semantically entangle themselves in a thorough debate over this, considering the FULL context of the statement, RP is discussing black people specifically as a collective and probably wouldn't have been able to make his point without referring to them any other way...

This is splitting hairs to the max. :roll:

Meanwhile, tweedle-dumb still needs to read this entire thread over again. Here's the link to the 1st page:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19887


Dearie me, DB, that's the last time I try and help you.

1. A post is made by SB including a supposedly racist comment by Ron Paul.

2. You fail to see how this is racist.

3. I reply, explaining what I think the accusation is and pointing out that I think you could, if you wanted, form a coherent argument against said accusation - I knew where the quote was from, because I googled it; it took me around 20 seconds.

4. Instead of googling the quote to see what the context is, you deny that Ron Paul said the second statement at all and still fail to fully engage in the accusation.

5. Just for you, I post the whole quote; a spirited and, from your point of view, convincing defence by Ron Paul of the accusations on his newsletter and supposed racism made against him. This is also probably the longest, uninterrupted Ron Paul quote on this thread.

6. Ironically enough, immediately afterwards, SB post sections from the newsletters.

7. You then post that it doesn't matter whether Ron Paul said both statements or not anyway as you still fail to see how they are racist, repeating exactly the same argument you made in 4)

8. Then, instead of noticing that Ron Paul himself offers fairly good arguments for your point view, you refer people back to the beginning of this thread, providing a link, to read your arguments all over again.

My knowledge of human nature is as limited as the next man's but I think there are a number of reasons why this is inadvisable.

a) Most people know what the number "1" looks like and can do it themselves.

b) This thread is very long and, at times, boring.

c) Many people can remember that you didn't always cover yourself with glory in this thread.

d) Take no offence, but Ron Paul puts his position better than you do.

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