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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 9:24 am 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Rope is unbeatable when he's focused and on point. Even DB can't fuck with him and I hope Rope agrees that U2 sucks donkey balls.


Does it count if I think U2 sucks donkey balls?


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 10:00 am 
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I think they suck aardvark balls, but I might be wrong...

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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 2:49 pm 
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Philostopher wrote:
downer mydnyte wrote:
Rope is unbeatable when he's focused and on point. Even DB can't fuck with him and I hope Rope agrees that U2 sucks donkey balls.


Does it count if I think U2 sucks donkey balls?

Of course!
Caputh wrote:
I think they suck aardvark balls, but I might be wrong...

You are not wrong. They suck all kinds of balls.


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 3:27 pm 
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Wow! 3 members of the Zappa forum agreed on something. What a glorious day this is. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 3:31 pm 
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Caputh wrote:
If I am libelling Farage then so is Dr Alan Sked (the founder of UKIP), who claims that Farage made the above statement. I wonder why Farage is not pursuing a libel case against him? As this is Sked's version of a private conversation and he did not tape it, this is purely a question of whom you believe.


And since it's a question of whom you believe, is exactly why Farage doesn't pursue legal action. Since it's his word against Sked's, genius. :roll:

Caputh wrote:
I tend to believe Sked- particularly in the context of Farage's own personal history and the context of his party.

Want some more racist UKIP candidates in the local elections last Thursday? (Spelling and punctuation does not appear to be one of their strong points, btw.)

Ken Chapman (UKIP candidate in Amber Valley, Derbyshire), referred to "Pakis", "Zulus" and "Darkies" and also stated: “Islam is a cancer that needs eradicating ­multiculturism does not work in this country clear them all off to the desert with their camals that’s their way of life.”

Joseph Quirk, UKIP candidate in S Tyneside has claimed that Jewish bankers financed Hitler, Soviet Communism, 9/11 and Israel, and says: “This doesn’t even scratch the surface...”

Aiden Benoit, UKIP candidate in Barnsley claimed: “Islam makes money on everything that is Halal certified which goes to their courses so everything you buy your giving money to Islam. so your paying for them and you don’t even no because they do not tell us!”
He also posted: “makes me sick the foreigners are lazy no every time how to get out of work cry rasits when it doesent go their way. they fill up houses, and the NHS and bring criminals here.
We dont need them! theirs lots of Enlish people that wont a job… send them all back."


ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

The above does NOT prove that ANY current members of UKIP are racist.

Caputh wrote:
Robert Brown, UKIP town councillor in Ramsey, Cambridgeshire wrote of "evil" Muslims, who "...need to become christians and I will do all that I can to help them to do so.”


I don't necessarily see anything wrong with that quote, since he's apparently referring to "evil" Muslims (terrorists types, etc.), and not Muslims in general.

Caputh wrote:
Source:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tr ... z32c9NFAgm
(17th of May 2014) (Includes a number of all new homophobic remarks too!)



I wonder when Farage is going to throw them all out?


Why don't you ask him?

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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 11:20 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
The above does NOT prove that ANY current members of UKIP are racist.

Ken Chapman... ("Pakis", "Zulus" and "Darkies", “Islam is a cancer that needs eradicating ­multiculturism does not work in this country clear them all off to the desert with their camals that’s their way of life.”)
... stood as a candidate for UKIP on Thursday, 22nd of May 2014 in Langley Mill and Aldercar, Amber Valley.
http://www.englishelections.org.uk/engl ... hp#langley

Joseph Quirk... (Jewish bankers financed Hitler, Soviet Communism, 9/11 and Israel, and says: “This doesn’t even scratch the surface...”)
...stood as a candidate for UKIP on Thursday, 22nd of May 2014 in Bolden Colliery, S. Tyneside.
http://www.englishelections.org.uk/engl ... neside.php

Aiden Benoit... (“makes me sick the foreigners are lazy no every time how to get out of work cry rasits when it doesent go their way. they fill up houses, and the NHS and bring criminals here.
We dont need them! theirs lots of Enlish people that wont a job… send them all back.")
...stood as a candidate for UKIP on Thursday, 22nd of May 2014 in Royston, Barnsley.
http://www.englishelections.org.uk/engl ... rnsley.php

So they are all current members and candidates of UKIP.

Or perhaps you think their statements are not racist?

Or perhaps you don't think that three days ago is "current" enough?

On the balance of probabilities, I tend to the opinion that Robert Brown (wrote of "evil" Muslims who "...need to become christians and I will do all that I can to help them to do so.”) was referring to all Muslims since he apparently includes Islam in his claims as well. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tr ... ay-3558058
But you're entitled to your opinion.
He's still a UKIP councillor in Cambridgeshire, btw.

Let's hope Farage takes a firm stand on them, anyway, eh?

At least, firmer than the stand than he did in his role as a co-President of the group Europe of Freedom and Democracy. His fellow co-President Francesco Speroni from the Lega Nord, "...described multiple murderer Anders Breivik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik, in case anyone has forgotten) as someone whose “ideas are in defence of western civilisation."
Mario Borghezio, another member of the group, declared in a radio interview that Breivik had some "excellent" ideas. Farage’s reaction was to write a strongly-worded letter to Borghezio, asking him to withdraw his comments or Ukip would pull out of the EFD. Borghezio not only did not apologise, but responded with an extraordinary speech in which he raged: "Long live the Whites of Europe, long live our identity, our ethnicity, our race… our blue sky, like the eyes of our women. Blue, in a people who want to stay white."
Nigel Farage did not withdraw from the EFD. He continues to co-preside over it, along with the leader of the Lega Nord." http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... k-evidence

Disco Boy wrote:
And since it's a question of whom you believe, is exactly why Farage doesn't pursue legal action. Since it's his word against Sked's, genius. :roll:


Actually, British libel law (in contrast to US libel law) makes it quite easy on the litigant. If Farage accused him, or, indeed, Cameron of libel, the burden of proof would be on Sked or Cameron (c.f. Irving vs Lipstadt, Sutcliffe vs "Private Eye", Wilde vs Queensberry). Sked would have to concretely prove in court either that...

a) he never said that Farage said: "We will never win the nigger vote. The nig-nogs will never vote for us” ...

or...

b) that Sked saying that Farage said: "We will never win the nigger vote. The nig-nogs will never vote for us,” was not intended to be defamatory...

or...

c) Farage said: "We will never win the nigger vote. The nig-nogs will never vote for us.”

Farage has denied that he said it, but he has not brought a libel case against Sked, even though if he really didn't say it, he would have very good chances of winning substantial damages and a withdrawal of Sked's claims. Thus, I tend to believe Sked.

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 8:12 pm 
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Caputh wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
The above does NOT prove that ANY current members of UKIP are racist.

Ken Chapman... ("Pakis", "Zulus" and "Darkies", “Islam is a cancer that needs eradicating ­multiculturism does not work in this country clear them all off to the desert with their camals that’s their way of life.”)
... stood as a candidate for UKIP on Thursday, 22nd of May 2014 in Langley Mill and Aldercar, Amber Valley.
http://www.englishelections.org.uk/engl ... hp#langley

Joseph Quirk... (Jewish bankers financed Hitler, Soviet Communism, 9/11 and Israel, and says: “This doesn’t even scratch the surface...”)
...stood as a candidate for UKIP on Thursday, 22nd of May 2014 in Bolden Colliery, S. Tyneside.
http://www.englishelections.org.uk/engl ... neside.php

Aiden Benoit... (“makes me sick the foreigners are lazy no every time how to get out of work cry rasits when it doesent go their way. they fill up houses, and the NHS and bring criminals here.
We dont need them! theirs lots of Enlish people that wont a job… send them all back.")
...stood as a candidate for UKIP on Thursday, 22nd of May 2014 in Royston, Barnsley.
http://www.englishelections.org.uk/engl ... rnsley.php

So they are all current members and candidates of UKIP.

Or perhaps you think their statements are not racist?

Or perhaps you don't think that three days ago is "current" enough?

On the balance of probabilities, I tend to the opinion that Robert Brown (wrote of "evil" Muslims who "...need to become christians and I will do all that I can to help them to do so.”) was referring to all Muslims since he apparently includes Islam in his claims as well. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tr ... ay-3558058
But you're entitled to your opinion.
He's still a UKIP councillor in Cambridgeshire, btw.

Let's hope Farage takes a firm stand on them, anyway, eh?

At least, firmer than the stand than he did in his role as a co-President of the group Europe of Freedom and Democracy. His fellow co-President Francesco Speroni from the Lega Nord, "...described multiple murderer Anders Breivik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik, in case anyone has forgotten) as someone whose “ideas are in defence of western civilisation."
Mario Borghezio, another member of the group, declared in a radio interview that Breivik had some "excellent" ideas. Farage’s reaction was to write a strongly-worded letter to Borghezio, asking him to withdraw his comments or Ukip would pull out of the EFD. Borghezio not only did not apologise, but responded with an extraordinary speech in which he raged: "Long live the Whites of Europe, long live our identity, our ethnicity, our race… our blue sky, like the eyes of our women. Blue, in a people who want to stay white."
Nigel Farage did not withdraw from the EFD. He continues to co-preside over it, along with the leader of the Lega Nord." http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... k-evidence


You MIGHT have a point with Chapman's supposed quote. BUT...

ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

The above does NOT prove that ANY current members of UKIP are racist.

Caputh wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
And since it's a question of whom you believe, is exactly why Farage doesn't pursue legal action. Since it's his word against Sked's, genius. :roll:


Actually, British libel law (in contrast to US libel law) makes it quite easy on the litigant. If Farage accused him, or, indeed, Cameron of libel, the burden of proof would be on Sked or Cameron (c.f. Irving vs Lipstadt, Sutcliffe vs "Private Eye", Wilde vs Queensberry). Sked would have to concretely prove in court either that...

a) he never said that Farage said: "We will never win the nigger vote. The nig-nogs will never vote for us” ...

or...

b) that Sked saying that Farage said: "We will never win the nigger vote. The nig-nogs will never vote for us,” was not intended to be defamatory...

or...

c) Farage said: "We will never win the nigger vote. The nig-nogs will never vote for us.”

Farage has denied that he said it, but he has not brought a libel case against Sked, even though if he really didn't say it, he would have very good chances of winning substantial damages and a withdrawal of Sked's claims. Thus, I tend to believe Sked.


You also tend to believe, "Socialism is the way of the future!"

ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

And since it's a question of whom you believe, is exactly why Farage doesn't pursue legal action. Since it's his word against Sked's, it's impossible to prove either way. :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 8:47 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
The above does NOT prove that ANY current members of UKIP are racist.


As
Ken Chapman... ("Pakis", "Zulus" and "Darkies", “Islam is a cancer that needs eradicating ­multiculturism does not work in this country clear them all off to the desert with their camals that’s their way of life.”)

Joseph Quirk... (Jewish bankers financed Hitler, Soviet Communism, 9/11 and Israel, and says: “This doesn’t even scratch the surface...”)


Aiden Benoit... (“makes me sick the foreigners are lazy no every time how to get out of work cry rasits when it doesent go their way. they fill up houses, and the NHS and bring criminals here.
We dont need them! theirs lots of Enlish people that wont a job… send them all back.")

and...
Robert Brown...(wrote of "evil" Muslims who "...need to become christians and I will do all that I can to help them to do so.”)

...are all current members and candidates of UKIP...

you obviously think their statements are not racist.

Another current member of UKIP, Redditch councillor "...Dave Small referred to gay people as perverts and African immigrants as scroungers". But don't worry- UKIP is investigating him. I wonder why they waited 'till now? He made this comment in June 2012: "I visiting the city of Birmingham recently and felt like a foreigner in the city of my birth, all around me I could hear the sound of jabbering in an alien voice … we also have the Pakistani' and the Somali's. Tell me Mr Cameron Why? the men wear their Pyjamas." http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... k-comments
It reminds me of comments somebody else made quite recently...

Believe what you want to believe, DB - I'm not stopping you.

I, on the other hand, am applying to change my nationality after last night.
http://www.bbc.com/news/events/vote2014 ... on-results

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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 6:54 pm 
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Caputh wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
The above does NOT prove that ANY current members of UKIP are racist.


As
Ken Chapman... ("Pakis", "Zulus" and "Darkies", “Islam is a cancer that needs eradicating ­multiculturism does not work in this country clear them all off to the desert with their camals that’s their way of life.”)

Joseph Quirk... (Jewish bankers financed Hitler, Soviet Communism, 9/11 and Israel, and says: “This doesn’t even scratch the surface...”)


Aiden Benoit... (“makes me sick the foreigners are lazy no every time how to get out of work cry rasits when it doesent go their way. they fill up houses, and the NHS and bring criminals here.
We dont need them! theirs lots of Enlish people that wont a job… send them all back.")

and...
Robert Brown...(wrote of "evil" Muslims who "...need to become christians and I will do all that I can to help them to do so.”)

...are all current members and candidates of UKIP...

you obviously think their statements are not racist.

Another current member of UKIP, Redditch councillor "...Dave Small referred to gay people as perverts and African immigrants as scroungers". But don't worry- UKIP is investigating him. I wonder why they waited 'till now? He made this comment in June 2012: "I visiting the city of Birmingham recently and felt like a foreigner in the city of my birth, all around me I could hear the sound of jabbering in an alien voice … we also have the Pakistani' and the Somali's. Tell me Mr Cameron Why? the men wear their Pyjamas." http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... k-comments
It reminds me of comments somebody else made quite recently...

Believe what you want to believe, DB - I'm not stopping you.

I, on the other hand, am applying to change my nationality after last night.
http://www.bbc.com/news/events/vote2014 ... on-results


Like I said, you MIGHT have a point with Chapman's supposed quote. And with Small's supposed quote, you also MIGHT have a point. But that's only IF they did indeed state those things. You need to stop jumping to conclusions so quickly.

However...

SON. OF. ONE. MORE. TIME. FOR. THE. WORLD.:

The above does NOT prove that ANY current members of UKIP are racist.

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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 7:08 pm 
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And if it did prove that ANY current members of UKIP are racist, then what?

"everyboby love everbody"- Jackie Moon


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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 8:43 pm 
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One sees the results when one visits my home country, DM. Within 25 minutes of arrival in Bath, Great Britain, the Polish bus driver who accompanied my last school trip had been beaten up by two people who felt "uncomfortable" by him speaking Polish. Two years ago, one of my pupils, a fifteen year old boy, was attacked on a school trip at an ice rink on the grounds that he was speaking German. This atmosphere is cultivated, exploited and implicitly condoned by parties such as UKIP and Farage. Particularly when they indulge in racial stereotyping in claiming that all foreigners are lazy, are only in Britain to leech off the British in order to specifically take Britons' jobs off them and thus should be expelled. Also that it is socially acceptable to feel "uncomfortable" when other people speak a foreign language on a train, when they should all be speaking English.
For the first and hopefully last time in my life I find myself in agreement with the self-confessed racist, Nick Griffin, of the openly fascist BNP. Explaining losing his seat in the European election, he said: "They’ve voted for Ukip’s racist policies instead". http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... losing-his

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 6:36 pm 
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Caputh wrote:
One sees the results when one visits my home country, DM. Within 25 minutes of arrival in Bath, Great Britain, the Polish bus driver who accompanied my last school trip had been beaten up by two people who felt "uncomfortable" by him speaking Polish. Two years ago, one of my pupils, a fifteen year old boy, was attacked on a school trip at an ice rink on the grounds that he was speaking German. This atmosphere is cultivated, exploited and implicitly condoned by parties such as UKIP and Farage. Particularly when they indulge in racial stereotyping in claiming that all foreigners are lazy, are only in Britain to leech off the British in order to specifically take Britons' jobs off them and thus should be expelled. Also that it is socially acceptable to feel "uncomfortable" when other people speak a foreign language on a train, when they should all be speaking English.
For the first and hopefully last time in my life I find myself in agreement with the self-confessed racist, Nick Griffin, of the openly fascist BNP. Explaining losing his seat in the European election, he said: "They’ve voted for Ukip’s racist policies instead". http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... losing-his


There you go AGAIN, with rash & UNPROVEN accusations.

Typical lefty... :roll:


Nigel Farage explains the UKIP platform, politics, some of its candidates comments, as well as similar comments made by opposing party candidates/members...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfTMRCaH0Mc

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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 9:41 pm 
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Perhaps not quite so "rash" and "unproven" as the statement: "makes me sick the foreigners are lazy no every time how to get out of work cry rasits when it doesent go their way. they fill up houses, and the NHS and bring criminals here. We dont need them! theirs lots of Enlish people that wont a job… send them all back."
Or UKIP's claim in their election posters that 26 million out of work Europeans want to take Britons' jobs off them.

Also interesting how similar accusations of racism have been made from such "typical lefties" as the leader of the neo-Fascist BNP and a number of former members of UKIP, including Sanja-Jeet Thandi and the party's euro-skeptic founder, Dr. Alan Sked, who, in an interview in the Guardian on Monday, repeated his claim that Farage had said to him: "We will never get the nigger vote. The nig-nogs will never vote for us" and went on to say:"The de facto leader of Ukip since 1999 has been a racist political failure.. He wanted ex-National Front [effectively the British Nazi party] candidates to run... If you elect a Ukip MEP, you're just going to elect another incompetent charlatan that you're going to turn into another millionaire. They go native in Brussels, take the expenses and the perks and do fuck all."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ns-monster

Some evidence for the Sked's last claim is provided by the following clip...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj2_ZdRjkBc

Also, a chance to meet some of UKIP's team of "competent" MEPS...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 35149.html

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 5:07 pm 
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Got a question for you news and debate addicts:

If someone was NOT racist, why the fuck would they be so deeply entwined in the sleazy world of big business and politics?

All the rest is bullshit until you answer that question.


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 6:22 pm 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
There seems to be no limits to the level and frequency of denial by the Libertarian Right in regards to blatant racism and fascism.

Meanwhile, Denial Boy is still avoiding the question...

What specific social policies, votes and platforms of Ron Paul, Rand Paul and the Libertarian party attracts white supremacist groups, terrorist militia groups and kooky conspiracy theorists?

or the version by Caputh...

"What specific social policies, votes and platforms of Ron Paul, Rand Paul and the Libertarian party attracts people of segregationist, non-conformist, anti-establishment and possibly subversive viewpoints?"


A rope leash wrote:
You are dumb as fuck, SPACEBROTHER forum entity. Your inquiry has been answered more than once. The policy is FREEDOM. The freedom to be a segragationist, a non-conformist (like Frank Zappa), anti-establishment (like Frank Zappa), and subversive (like Frank Zappa).

If you want to see a fascist, look in the mirror. There's a racist there, too. Freedom means being what you are, and endeavoring to be what you want to be, even if you want to be a non-conformist, racist, Nazi asshole. That's freedom, dumbass...you have to let people be what they are and what they wish. Conforming to YOUR narrow view of how things should be is not freedom, it's fascism.

I'm not a segregationist, but I know some folks who are. They have not been arrested. Racism is not illegal, nor is non-conformity, nor is antiestablishmentarianism, nor is subversion, unless it is pinned as sedition. I for one would not like to be known as a government bootlick, or a person that cheers on the Federal government as it continues to destroy the nation.

Freedom is the policy that attracts voters to Ron Paul. Is that specific enough for you, or do you think there is some hidden agenda to bring back slavery or segregation?

Your problem, SPACEBROTHER forum entity, is that you see an older white guy and you automatically think "racist". That's racist.

Ron Paul is not a racist. His policies do not include racism. There is no large movement toward racism or oppression of "minorities" in this country, and you know it...but you kind of wish there was, don't you? Then you could express your hatred in more forceful ways.

The fact is, the ball has been in your court for several years now, and what do we have? More of the same old bullshit wars and "programs". It's the same as it ever was, and it has nothing to do with conservative or liberal policies, but everything to do with big money controlling everything.

The way I see it, you would love to have all the old white guys oppressed and punished...maybe put them in camps, eh?

You don't have a clue as to what freedom is...your all full of doublespeak...war is peace, conformity is freedom. If conformity means being a government-loving shrill little asswipe, then give me death.


You really don't have an understanding of what true fascism is, do you?

This is for you and your other co-denial cohort, Denial Boy...

Quote:
Ron Paul's Skeleton Closet: Scandals, Quotes, and Character

By far the oldest candidate in the race at 75, Ron Paul is suddenly a top contender. He has a lot of younger supporters, mostly because he favors legalizing pot, and adopts the sort of extreme intellectual positions that have also drawn college age kids to "pure" philosophies like Communism and Ayn Rand's Positivism for generations. You know, "clean" uncompromising positions that get rid of all those messy human feelings and complexities.
Ron Paul loves to brag about being a straight-talker who doesn't change his positions. He says he would have voted against the 1964 Civil Rights Act (on property rights grounds, not to defend racism natch.) He wants to legalize all drugs, including heroin, withdraw all US troops from other countries immediately, end government flood control efforts and return to the gold standard.

And speaking as someone who has been researching candidate scandals for many years now, he's pretty darn squeaky clean. Sorry to disappoint you haters, but (like Obama) Ron Paul shows no sign of screwing around on his wife (unlike Newt or Bill Clinton), or doing favors for special interests who then put money in his pocket (unlike Newt or Rick Santorum). That's admirable. He's also one of the few politicians who did not evade the draft (unlike Gingrich and Romney. Santorum and Obama were too young to be drafted, and did not volunteer.)

But Congressman Paul does has a paranoid, fringey side that he does NOT like to admit. Paul has written and spoken a lot about hidden conspiracies of bankers, diplomats, the Trilateral Commission, secret plans to merge the US with Mexico and Canada, etc. (He calls it the North American Union.) If that sounds like the kind of stuff that John Birchers and right-wing militia racists say, well, he's very popular in that crowd too. (Read the Stormfront and other neo-Nazi websites if you dare, and you'll see.)

Ever since he began running for Congress again in 1996, Ron Paul has tried to downplay or deny responsibility for some incredibly racist newsletters he sold to that conspiracy crowd. But it's hard for him to deny responsibility for a publication called "The Ron Paul Survival Report", edited by Ron Paul, when it says stuff like "When I was in Congress....." He had no problem cashing the checks certainly. And if it wasn't paranoid militia conspiracy, why was it called the Survival Report?

The sad truth is that Ron Paul is a consummate politician. He's just better at tailoring his message to his different audiences than, say, Mitt Romney, whose adjustments are painfully obvious. Ron Paul is the cool grandpa pothead to college kids, the prophet of racial fear to neo-Nazis, an opponent of public schools to Christian home-schoolers, and a crusader against the coming One World Government to the anti-flouride conspiracy crowd. And each group thinks he's their own, special warrior.

Quotes

"I think it's a theory, the theory of evolution and I don't accept it as a theory." - Ron Paul, CBS-TV, 2007
"illegal immigrants enter the country for the express purpose of giving birth. But illegal immigrants also use emergency rooms, public roads, and public schools. In many cases they are able to obtain Medicaid, food stamps, public housing, and even unemployment benefits. ... We must end the perverse incentives that encourage immigrants to come here illegally, including the anchor baby incentive." - Ron Paul, (on his congressional website, not the infamous newsletters)

"You know, the greatest hoax I think that has been around in many, many years if not hundreds of years has been this hoax on the environment and global warming. You notice they don't call it global warming anymore. It's weather control." - Ron Paul, on Fox

"The public school now is a propaganda machine. They start with our kids even in kindergarten, teaching them about family values, sexual education, gun rights, environmentalism, and they condition them to believe in so much that is totally un-American.” - Ron Paul, to Christian home-schoolers, March 2011

"The ultimate goal is not simply a superhighway, but an integrated North American Union--complete with a currency, a cross-national bureaucracy, and virtually borderless travel within the Union. Like the European Union, a North American Union would represent another step toward the abolition of national sovereignty altogether." - Ron Paul, 2006 (on his congressional website, not the infamous newsletters)

"Critics of NAFTA and CAFTA warned at the time that the agreements were actually a move toward ... an eventual merging of North America into a border-free area. Proponents of these agreements dismissed this as preposterous and conspiratorial. Now we see that the criticisms appear to be justified." - Ron Paul, 2006 (on his congressional website, not the infamous newsletters)

"This new [UN Peackeeping] commission will create the beginning of a global UN army. It will claim the right to intervene in any conflict anywhere on the globe, bringing the World Bank and the IMF formally into the picture as well. It is a complete new world order..." Ron Paul, 2006 (on his congressional website, not the infamous newsletters)

Racist Newsletter

Starting in 1984, Ron Paul published a series of related newsletters, called the Ron Paul Political Report, Ron Paul Freedom Report, Ron Paul Survival Report, etc. He had over 100,000 subscribers at one point and is said to have made over a million dollars a year. (Subscriptions cost $100 a year for a magazine usually 8 pages long.)

Over nearly 20 years, the newsletters published a bunch of hateful and inflammatory racist, anti-gay and conspiratorial columns. You can read 50 of the originals on this website. Warning -- it's pretty raw stuff.

One article said Martin Luther King Jr. “seduced underage girls and boys” and “replaced the evil of forced segregation with the evil of forced integration.” Another offers this strategy against "urban youth":

"If you have to use a gun on a youth, you should leave the scene immediately, disposing of the wiped off gun as soon as possible. Such a gun cannot, of course, be registered to you, but one bought privately (through the classifieds, for example).”

Speaking of AIDS, one article said homosexuals “enjoy the attention and pity that comes with being sick,” and another said “I miss the closet. Homosexuals, not to speak of the rest of society, were far better off when social pressure forced them to hide their activities.” -- A June, 1990 article

In 2001, as Paul moved to the mainstream and rejoined the Republican party, he disavowed these comments and blamed them on an unnamed ghostwriter. He said he didn't know about them until ten years later -- a statement easily proved false -- and that he had lied in 1996 when he didn't say he didn't write them.

You see, when Paul ran for Congress in 1996, as a Libertarian, his opponent brought these newsletters up to show that Paul had fringe ideas. At that time, they were still being published, and Paul didn't deny writing them. He said that the inflammatory quotes his opponent gave were taken out of context, and that his commentaries about blacks came in the context of "current events and statistical reports of the time." (You can check the context of the inflammatory quotes yourself on the link above, but they look pretty representative to me.)

In fact, Dr. Paul defended some of these racist statements in an interview with the Dallas Morning News in 1996. One newsletter said that young Black men are "unbelievably fleet of foot." Dr. Paul confirmed this opinion by telling the newspaper "If you try to catch someone that has stolen a purse from you, there is no chance to catch them." Another article in the newsletter (from 1992, just 4 years before this controversy first erupted) said:

"Given the inefficiencies of what DC laughingly calls the criminal justice system, I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal."

When the Dallas reporter asked Ron Paul about that quote, he said "These aren't my figures. That is the assumption you can gather from" the report.

Paul and his supporters claim that he moved to Texas, the newsletters stayed in Washington, and he was too busy to even look at the 8 page newsletter that earned him a million dollars a years. (So much for Texas straight talk.) We have direct evidence that he's lying. Renae Hathaway, Paul's former secretary who still supports him, says that Paul was a very hands-on owner of the newsletters: "He always got to see the final product. He would proof it." (Another longtimeemployee, Eric Rittberg, confirms that he saw Ron Paul proofing, editing and signing off on the newsletters.) Hathaway said the newsletter company had an office in Houston and another one in Clute, very near Paul's house, and that he came to Houston -- 50 miles from his home -- at least weekly.

Ed Crane, the longtime head of the Cato Institute, recalls meeting Paul in the 1980s and discussing mail solicitation lists for the newsletters. Paul agreed that “people who have extreme views” responded best, and said he got his best response from the mailing list for the conspiratorial, anti-Semitic newspaper "The Spotlight." Rittberg says that Paul put the racist material in the newsletters simply to make money -- "the real big money came from some of that racially tinged stuff -- and it seems to have worked very well.

The President manages millions of people. Even if you take Ron Paul at his word, he couldn't manage a staff of 10 without them suddenly printing extreme racist progaganda FOR TEN YEARS. I just don't believe him, but if you do, he's a piss-poor manager. More likely he happily trafficked in the racist material to make money. And it worked. In 1984, Paul reported dept of up to $765,000; by 1995, most of the debt was gone and his net worth was up to $3.3 million. The question remains, does he believe any of this stuff himself?

The thing is, Ron Paul has published a lot of similar (but milder) material since then, and much of it is still on his congressional website, under his name. (Read any of his "Texas Straight Talk" columns from 2005 or 2006, and you'll see what I mean.) He rails against "anchor babies," warns of conspiracies to impose a "North American United Nations," complains about secret cartels of international bankers -- all big parts of the racist right-wing's world-view. (See quotes, above.) So far he hasn't claimed that someone else wrote these "Texas Straight Talk" columns, but I haven't seen any reporters ask him about them, either.

But there's plenty more. Ron Paul defenders claim Martin Luther King Jr. is a hero of his, but Paul voted against the Martin Luther King Day holiday -- both times - and it fell 5 votes short the first time. (It passed the second time despite his opposition.)

He said on MSNBC that the Civil War was not necessary, and gave a rave review to a pro-Confederacy revisionist book called "The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History" by Thomas E. Woods. Ron Paul said Wood's book "heroically rescues real history from the politically correct memory hole.” Woods, who founded the secessionist group "League of the South," and Ron Paul both teach at the Ludwig Van Mises Institute in Alabama, which was founded by Lew Rockwell -- Ron Paul's former chief of staff. In fact, many Paul supporters claim Lew Rockwell wrote the racist newsletter columns under Ron Paul's name, but Rockwell denies that.

The fact is, Ron Paul has said a lot of things similar to (but milder than) the shocking newsletter quotes, things he does not dispute. In 2007, Dr. Paul republished his 1987 book "Freedom Under Siege" which has a lot of choice passages, such as calling the AIDS sufferer "a victim of his own lifestyle [who] victimizes innocent citizens by forcing them to pay for his care"; saying sexual harassment victims bear some responsibility because they didn't quit their jobs; and complaining that whites would be called bigots if they formed a white caucus in Congress, but minority caucuses are OK.

Ron Paul is firmly enmeshed in the right-wing, conspiracy subculture. He has appeared on the Alex Jones radio show 40 times over 12 years, and given extensive interviews to the John Birch Society newsletter. So whether or not he wrote any one particularly nasty racist sentence of a given issue, he is behind all of it. He has been living in that world for years, building connections with the people in it, spreading its ideas, and making money off of doing so. It's cowardly of him to deny it all now.

Quote Sources -- Back

evolution - Updated:Ron Paul Doesn’t “Accept Evolution as a Theory” by Jon Winsor, Discover Magazine, August 29, 2011

climate change -- Ron Paul Interview`, by David Asman, Fox Business Channel, November 4, 2009

home school - "Trio of presidential contenders woo evangelicals over home schooling," by Shannon Travis, CNN, March 23, 2011

college loans - Ron Paul on MSNBC, Cenk Uygur interview, March 3, 2011

NAFTA superhighway - "The NAFTA Super Highway," by Ron Paul, Texas Straight Talk, October 31, 2006

North American Union conspiracy - "A North American United Nations?" by Ron Paul, Texas Straight Talk, August 28, 2006

Anchor babies - Rethinking Birthright Citizenship, by Ron Paul, Texas Straight Talk, October 2, 2006

UN New World Order - NeoCon Global Government, by Ron Paul, Texas Straight Talk, June 13, 2005



Racist Newsletter Sources -- Back

Game Over: Scans of Over than 50 Ron Paul Newsletters, Et Tu Mr. Destructo (blog), December 21, 2011 (this source has actual scans of many of the newsletters.)

Ron Paul signed off on racist newsletters in the 1990s, associates say, By Jerry Markon and Alice Crites, Washington Post, January 27

1996 Ron Paul interview - Candidate's comments on blacks questioned, by Catalina Camia, Dallas Morning News, May 22, 1996

Angry White Man: The Bigoted Past of Ron Paul by James Kirchick, The New Republic, January 8, 2008

"A Collection of Ron Paul’s Most Incendiary Newsletters", The New Republic, December 23, 2011

More Selections From Ron Paul’s Newsletters, The New Republic, January 17, 2012

Ron Paul's Texas Straight Talk (archive), on his Congressional Web site.

"In Book, Ron Paul Opposed Workplace Harassment Protections," by Pema Levy, Talking Points Memo, December 30, 2011

MLK Day Fact Check, by Ta-Nehisi Coates, The Atlantic, January 8, 2012

"Congress > Roll Call Votes > 98th Congress >House Vote #289 (Aug 2, 1983)" (Martin Luther King Day holiday), GovTrack.US website

"Congress > Roll Call Votes > 98th Congress >House Vote #578 (November 13, 1979)" (Martin Luther King Day holiday), GovTrack.US website

Ron Paul and the racist newsletters (Fact Checker biography), by Josh Hicks, The Washington Post, 12/27/2011


http://www.realchange.org/ronpaul.htm

Fully documented and fully proven fact.

Bottom line - Ron Paul, Rand Paul and the Libertarian Right cater to white supremacists....period.


If you are an isolationist, segregationist and pro-Confederacy, you ARE a racist. There is no gray area there.



...oh...and by the way....

meanwhile, the question is still unanswered....

What specific social policies, votes and platforms of Ron Paul, Rand Paul and the Libertarian party attracts white supremacist groups, terrorist militia groups and kooky conspiracy theorists?


hint - free speech and expression is NOT the answer. Past voting records, public speeches and mountains of print expose these Klansmen for who they really are.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 8:25 pm 
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tweedle-dee wrote:
Perhaps not quite so "rash" and "unproven" as the statement: "makes me sick the foreigners are lazy no every time how to get out of work cry rasits when it doesent go their way. they fill up houses, and the NHS and bring criminals here. We dont need them! theirs lots of Enlish people that wont a job… send them all back."
Or UKIP's claim in their election posters that 26 million out of work Europeans want to take Britons' jobs off them.


That's not necessarily what they claimed and there is NOTHING racist about those statements, nor is there necessarily anything wrong with them. You are fucking delusional.

tweedle-dee wrote:
Also interesting how similar accusations of racism have been made from such "typical lefties" as the leader of the neo-Fascist BNP and a number of former members of UKIP, including Sanja-Jeet Thandi and the party's euro-skeptic founder, Dr. Alan Sked, who, in an interview in the Guardian on Monday, repeated his claim that Farage had said to him: "We will never get the nigger vote. The nig-nogs will never vote for us" and went on to say:"The de facto leader of Ukip since 1999 has been a racist political failure.. He wanted ex-National Front [effectively the British Nazi party] candidates to run... If you elect a Ukip MEP, you're just going to elect another incompetent charlatan that you're going to turn into another millionaire. They go native in Brussels, take the expenses and the perks and do fuck all."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ns-monster


Speculative nonsense. Mudslinging at its worst or finest - depending on how you interpret it.

tweedle-dee wrote:
Some evidence for the Sked's last claim is provided by the following clip...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj2_ZdRjkBc


Evidence? LOL! Almost nothing he stated about Nigel was true.

tweedle-dee wrote:
Also, a chance to meet some of UKIP's team of "competent" MEPS...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 35149.html


Almost nothing quoted in the link above you provided was racist...


Now, since you're intent on perpetually providing us with grandiose speculative nonsense, misinterpretive quotes and at best, half-truths about some of the UKIP members, all the while pissing in the wind and proving almost nothing, I hereby re-bestow you the title of tweedle-dee - you definitely deserve the title back.

Meanwhile, let's hope that tweedle-dumb eventually figures out that EVERY claim he's made against Ron Paul, I've either thoroughly disproven and/or have provided very strong evidence showing Ron Paul isn't racist. Oh...and yeah, RP is NOT an isolationist either, among other things. But at least tweedle-dumb spelled Ron Paul's correctly. 1 point for him!!!

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 9:19 pm 
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...meanwhile, Disco Douche (and his pal, a rope douche) are avoiding directly answering the question....

What specific social policies, votes and platforms of Ron Paul, Rand Paul and the Libertarian party attracts white supremacist groups, terrorist militia groups and kooky conspiracy theorists?


hint - free speech and expression is NOT the answer.


I'll help you out, because you are both obviously in a severe state of denial....one answer is along the lines of Ron Paul being the lone vote against MLK Day. There's also the racist newsletters in his name. See how easy that was?

Surely, two people such as yourselves with immense superior intellect are capable of directly answering a simple straightforward question without being serial denialists, right?


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 10:38 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:

That's not necessarily what they claimed and there is NOTHING racist about those statements, nor is there necessarily anything wrong with them. You are fucking delusional.

So there is nothing racist about the claim that all foreigners are lazy scroungers who should all be sent back and that the "enlish" people, are in contrast, willing to work, or that 26 million Europeans want to take Britons' jobs off them?
Quote:
Racism: The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races
Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior:

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... ish/racism


Disco Boy wrote:
Speculative nonsense. Mudslinging at its worst or finest - depending on how you interpret it.

A statement by somebody who knew and has worked with Farage for years. But as you obviously live in his underpants, I'm sure your statements on him are far less speculative, O Delver of the Underworld.

Disco Boy wrote:
Evidence? LOL! Almost nothing he stated about Nigel was true.

You have not provided the evidential basis for that statement (as usual), O Master of the Hosannahs. So far, you have posted two clips by Farage, one a selection of soundbites, the other a debate with the utterly feeble Nick Clegg. Neither of them go any way to supporting anything you have said or indeed, disproving anything I said; "Nigel" thinks he himself is fantastic and you think he's fantastic and you both don't "think" he's a racist - great!

In any case, the last point was referring to Sked's statements on Farage's value for money as an MEP (you can tell this by my use of words "last claim", O Interpreter of the Scrolls.)

"Nigel Farage and his deputy, Paul Nuttall, had the worst attendance ratings of any UK politician in Brussels but still managed to cost the taxpayer over £600,000 each in salary and allowances.

Over the last parliament Mr Farage has not drafted or amended a single report and voted just 42 per cent of the time. Mr Nuttall spoke in parliament on average just 10 times a year and asked 24 parliamentary questions"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 13702.html


Disco Boy wrote:
Almost nothing quoted in the link above you provided was racist...

Where did I say it was mainly concerned with that, O Wise One? I was talking about their competence, hence my use of the word "competent".

Disco Boy wrote:
Now, since you're intent on perpetually providing us with grandiose speculative nonsense, misinterpretive quotes and at best, half-truths about some of the UKIP members, all the while pissing in the wind and proving almost nothing, I hereby re-bestow you the title of tweedle-dee - you definitely deserve the title back.

Proving once again that your level of invention in insults, like your understanding of politics, history, and economics is severely limited. Call me whatever you like, O Father of Adam. Fare thee well and Amen.

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Last edited by Caputh on Thu May 29, 2014 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 11:18 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Got a question for you news and debate addicts:

If someone was NOT racist, why the fuck would they be so deeply entwined in the sleazy world of big business and politics?

All the rest is bullshit until you answer that question.


If one accepted your premise to be correct, I still think it would be important to distinguish between those who actively instrumentalize racism to gain votes and power and those who do not. I don't believe there is any way one can nullify racist thoughts in someone's head. It is, however, entirely possible to encourage, nurture and confirm such thoughts.

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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 9:36 am 
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The Republican/Libertarian Right has effectively mastered the use of "dog whistle" racism to fire up their base.


Quote:
Dog Whistle Politics: How Politicians Use Coded Racism to Push Through Policies Hurting All
Ian Haney López talks about how politicians have used coded racial appeals to win support for cuts like these and similar efforts since the 1960s. López is the author of the new book, "Dog Whistle Politics: How Coded Racial Appeals Have Reinvented Racism and Wrecked the Middle Class." A senior fellow at Demos and law professor at the University of California, Berkeley, López argues that "this is about race as it wrecks the whole middle class. This sort of racism is being used to fool a lot of whites into voting for Republicans whose main allegiance is to corporate interests."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqKHc8Fmaxg


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 6:55 pm 
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tweedle-dumb wrote:
What specific social policies, votes and platforms of Ron Paul, Rand Paul and the Libertarian party attracts white supremacist groups, terrorist militia groups and kooky conspiracy theorists?


hint - free speech and expression is NOT the answer.


Yes, it is, you complete fucking idiot. It's just not the answer you want to hear. :roll:

tweedle-dee wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
That's not necessarily what they claimed and there is NOTHING racist about those statements, nor is there necessarily anything wrong with them. You are fucking delusional.

So there is nothing racist about the claim that all foreigners are lazy scroungers who should all be sent back and that the "enlish" people, are in contrast, willing to work


No, because that's NOT exactly what he stated. You're misquoting him. But it's certainly what you want us to interpret it as what he stated.

tweedle-dee wrote:
...or that 26 million Europeans want to take Britons' jobs off them?


That's NOT racist either. Especially since there are MILLIONS of Europeans that are white, genius.

tweedle-dee wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Speculative nonsense. Mudslinging at its worst or finest - depending on how you interpret it.

A statement by somebody who knew and has worked with Farage for years. But as you obviously live in his underpants, I'm sure your statements on him are far less speculative, O Delver of the Underworld.


You don't seem to realize the difference between accusations and proof, do you?

tweedle-dee wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Evidence? LOL! Almost nothing he stated about Nigel was true.

You have not provided the evidential basis for that statement (as usual), O Master of the Hosannahs. So far, you have posted two clips by Farage, one a selection of soundbites, the other a debate with the utterly feeble Nick Clegg. Neither of them go any way to supporting anything you have said or indeed, disproving anything I said; "Nigel" thinks he himself is fantastic and you think he's fantastic and you both don't "think" he's a racist - great!


Almost the complete opposite has occurred. And remember, since YOU are the one doing the accusing, the burden of proof is on YOU, not me. But I'm not surprised you'd interpret the above as that.

tweedle-dee wrote:
In any case, the last point was referring to Sked's statements on Farage's value for money as an MEP (you can tell this by my use of words "last claim", O Interpreter of the Scrolls.)

"Nigel Farage and his deputy, Paul Nuttall, had the worst attendance ratings of any UK politician in Brussels but still managed to cost the taxpayer over £600,000 each in salary and allowances.

Over the last parliament Mr Farage has not drafted or amended a single report and voted just 42 per cent of the time. Mr Nuttall spoke in parliament on average just 10 times a year and asked 24 parliamentary questions"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 13702.html


Did it ever occur to you that maybe UKIP didn't have the pull it did during that time. And that now since they are much more prominent because they've just won the most seats in the European Parliament, it will drastically change the above?!

tweedle-dee wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Almost nothing quoted in the link above you provided was racist...

Where did I say it was mainly concerned with that, O Wise One? I was talking about their competence, hence my use of the word "competent".


If UKIP weren't competent, their popularity wouldn't have sky-rocketed in the past few years, like it has. People are SICK AND TIRED of not only over-immigration destroying their countries but being unemployed for long durations of time. And they want a change for the better. Nigel Farage (along with Ron Paul) is one of the most sincere politicians I've seen in a very long time. And the people who voted for UKIP agree.

tweedle-dee wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Now, since you're intent on perpetually providing us with grandiose speculative nonsense, misinterpretive quotes and at best, half-truths about some of the UKIP members, all the while pissing in the wind and proving almost nothing, I hereby re-bestow you the title of tweedle-dee - you definitely deserve the title back.

Proving once again that your level of invention in insults, like your understanding of politics, history, and economics is severely limited. Call me whatever you like, O Father of Adam. Fare thee well and Amen.


You can indulge in all the verbosity-ridden rants you want. But it doesn't change the FACT that, for the most part, you make MASSIVELY rash, uneven decisions and misinterpret, misquote and accuse others of things that are so far from proven, that it's utterly laughable.

More perfectly logical explanations about the above from Nigel Farage...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynq_KqlmHIY


Meanwhile, tweedle-dumb STILL doesn't realize that the quotes in his previous post are NOT actual Ron Paul quotes, nor can he PROVE they are... :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 8:27 pm 
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Sorry, Caputh. There is to be NO meaningful discussion on this thread. Just the vomit of SB and DB. They are incapable of evolving.

SB buries posts as if he is getting paid to do so. Rope already destroyed him.

I get the feeling DB would shut up if everyone else (SB) did.

This thread shows why there will be war for a long, long time to come. The genetic defects on display here are alarming. Demented fuckers, really. Hopeless cases of drooling imbeciles.


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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 8:55 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
SB buries posts as if he is getting paid to do so. Rope already destroyed him.

I get the feeling DB would shut up if everyone else (SB) did.


Wow. You actually might be correct about something! There is hope for you after all...

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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 10:52 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Sorry, Caputh. There is to be NO meaningful discussion on this thread.


I tend to agree...One quality that unites both SB and Disco Boy is persistance and repetition; often it doesn't matter what of.

If you'd care for a civilized conversation on this topic somewhere else, PM me.

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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 11:46 pm 
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Caputh wrote:
So there is nothing racist about the claim that all foreigners are lazy scroungers who should all be sent back and that the "enlish" people, are in contrast, willing to work

Disco Boy wrote:
No, because that's NOT exactly what he stated. You're misquoting him. But it's certainly what you want us to interpret it as what he stated.

It's very difficult to summarize him effectively, as a basic grasp of the English language does not seem to be one of his strengths.
Tell me what he means then, O Translator of the Garbage:
“makes me sick the foreigners are lazy no every time how to get out of work cry rasits when it doesent go their way. they fill up houses, and the NHS and bring criminals here. We dont need them! theirs lots of Enlish people that wont a job… send them all back." (Aiden Benoit, UKIP councillor)
Caputh wrote:
...or that 26 million Europeans want to take Britons' jobs off them?

Disco Boy wrote:
That's NOT racist either. Especially since there are MILLIONS of Europeans that are white, genius.

I really don't think you understand very much about racism and its history, O Disco Deity. Have you noticed how most Jews are white? In fact, most of the Germans Jews were pretty indistinguishable from Germans. Equally, your average Slav (Bulgarians, Russians, Czechs, Slovaks, Poles etc.) is white, too. It didn't stop Hitler from bumping off millions of Jews and Russians in a conflict which he described as "racial war". Racism does not necessarily have anything to do with the colour of one's skin.
Disco Boy wrote:
You don't seem to realize the difference between accusations and proof, do you?

Ah, I see. When you and Farage deny accusation made against him that is "proof", O Ye of Little Evidence. When I post lots of statements that oppose your position from left to right that's an "accusation".

Disco Boy wrote:

...remember, since YOU are the one doing the accusing, the burden of proof is on YOU, not me. But I'm not surprised you'd interpret the above as that.

From the person who said: "It's Sked's word against Farage's." In case you haven't noticed, O Flagellant of the Lampost, this is an internet forum, not a British libel court. We exchange information and attempt to reach a conclusion. The information that you put on offer consists so far mainly of utterly unexplained denials by you, bereft of any factual basis and speeches by Farage. I have quoted Farage himself, members of UKIP, ex-members of UKIP, the leader of the BNP, the British PM, a number of members of the Labour and Conservative parties, historical comparisons, evidence from my own personal experience and various news stories and opinions from all sides of the political spectrum. The conclusion I would draw, O Daydream Believer, is that you just can't accept the views expressed because you have a preconceived view of Farage and are thus incapable of or not prepared to give a cogent reason for rejecting said "accusations".

Caputh wrote:
In any case, the last point was referring to Sked's statements on Farage's value for money as an MEP (you can tell this by my use of words "last claim", O Interpreter of the Scrolls.)

"Nigel Farage and his deputy, Paul Nuttall, had the worst attendance ratings of any UK politician in Brussels but still managed to cost the taxpayer over £600,000 each in salary and allowances.

Over the last parliament Mr Farage has not drafted or amended a single report and voted just 42 per cent of the time. Mr Nuttall spoke in parliament on average just 10 times a year and asked 24 parliamentary questions"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 13702.html


Disco Boy wrote:
Did it ever occur to you that maybe UKIP didn't have the pull it did during that time. And that now since they are much more prominent because they've just won the most seats in the European Parliament, it will drastically change the above?!

Ah, I see. So Farage basically didn't do any work in the European Parliament because hardly anybody voted for him and his party before. Now I'm supposed to trust you and believe that because he got more votes he's bound to attend more often? That is almost the most illogical argument I've ever heard. But hope springs eternal...

Disco Boy wrote:
If UKIP weren't competent, their popularity wouldn't have sky-rocketed in the past few years, like it has.

Ah, I see. So because people vote for UKIP, UKIP is per se a competent party, led by a competent leader? That is the most illogical argument I've ever heard. And another clip featuring Farage doesn't make it any better. The number of incompetents who have been voted into power is rather high in my experience. The converse argument would thus logically prove Ron Paul's incompetence, as he failed to get elected, even by his own party. I think Benoit's quote above is a fairly accurate guide as to how competent they are. The only field in which they have proved severely competent is their ability to tap into peoples' lowest instincts, prejudices and fears. Quite a few people who were otherwise totally incompetent have managed that in the past. Their success in the EU election has been compounded by the fact that all 3 other major parties are led by incompetents.

As well as heading a party that is fundamentally incompetent and racist IMO, Farage is also the worst kind of hypocrite. A man who complains about EU foreigners taking British jobs while putting his own German wife on the payroll, thus, according to his own terms, depriving a British person of a job.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-27115043


Disco Boy wrote:
...with Small's supposed quote, you also MIGHT have a point. But that's only IF they did indeed state those things. You need to stop jumping to conclusions so quickly.

And UKIP has also obviously "jumped" to the same conclusion. Over one and a half years after he started making racist and homophobic comments, they've decided David Small's statements are too obviously racist and homophobic...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 42466.html
When he made the comments he was a member and candidate for UKIP.
He is now being investigated by the police.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-here ... r-27644684
He denies being racist, but admits to being homophobic. Sound familiar?

BTW. Jeremy Zeid, the chairman of UKIP’s branch in Harrow claimed yesterday "...that parts of London are being “ethnically cleansed” of white people." Apparently he is worried by "the almost [sic] absence of white faces in Ilford".
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05 ... 09141.html

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