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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:11 am 
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downer - Thanx for removing the shit and the... other stuff.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:19 pm 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
In my opinion, I don't really care what Snowden does or what his motivations were for what he did. As long as there are business interests to make profits, gov't interests to help businesses make profits, greed and corruption, there are going to be people and organizations who will do everything within their power to dominate and monopolize. It's human nature. It's always been with us as a species. Snowden reporting his findings changed nothing, and whether he turns himself in or not, still changes nothing.

America isn't the only country in the espionage business.



The state in which I live, has traditionally been a Left leaning Liberal Democrat state for decades, but as soon as soon as Libertarian Republicans gained a majority in one house, they immediately started to rig the system. Now in my state, Democrats can gain millions of more votes than Republicans in elections and still lose. It's become a true dictatorship and oligarchy, something Libertarian Republicans love. Sad thing is that people who live hundreds of miles away and far outside from my district can now dictate what legislation gets passed locally. That's why my state is crumbling. The infrastructure is crumbling. The largest city just went into bankruptcy. It's ranked among the worst for job creation. Gas taxes are the highest in the nation. 3 of my states cities even rank among the top 5 for highest murder rates. Libertarian Republicans even raised taxes on pensions for the elderly, but gave huge tax breaks to billionaires. They've even gone as far as to be able to eliminate positions held by publicly elected officials, all of whom are NOT Libertarians and/or Republicans. It's a power grab.

Libertarianism is a farce and a scam. I live in an area that proves this every minute of every day.

Incidentally, my state also happens to be surrounded by the worlds largest source of fresh water. There's a lot at stake here and the greed factor by Libertarianism is working hard to strip away mineral rights from our citizens in the name of free markets. Steal it and then sell it.


I understand your standpoint and find it reasoned, but have three points to make...

a) The fact that it espionage has been happening since time immemorial does not invalidate the fact that the NSA has put itself in the position of being able to spy on absolutely everyone who uses what has replaced the postal service, the internet and mobile phones. This is pretty unique in the history of humanity and thus surely a matter of public interest. Obviously, the question of whether they would be physically able to process that data is moot. But it is the principle of the thing IMO.

b) I don't think that you really address the question of precedence. You happen to trust Obama. OK. However, Obama is not going to be there forever. How will you feel if, say, Rand Paul becomes President. Will you feel equally comfortable that he and his government have access to the same information?

c) Isn't the question of Snowden's political affiliation in this context irrelevant? Can you really provide concrete proof that there is a connection between Snowden and Ron Paul and then the NSA? All three working together? From an objective point of view this sounds like a conspiracy theory - and I know you don't like conspiracy theories. Did one examine e.g. Woodward and Bernstein's political affiliations before one decided that Watergate happened? Did it change the truth?

BTW the fact that it these facts were revealed shows, once again, what a complete an utter waste time of all intelligence services are: from Gestapo to Stasi to MI5 to KGB to CIA to NSA - they are an utter waste of time, money and lives and totally ineffective in themselves, IMO.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:20 pm 
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If Rand Paul were to become president, todays Supreme court ruling to strip away rights from women is only the tip of the iceberg.

Snowden is an outspoken Ron Paul supporter, who also happened to work for the NSA. Peter Theil happened to be the person who built the spying tools for the NSA and was Ron Paul's top campaign donor and political consultant. Snowden may not have directly worked for or with Ron Paul and/or his campaign, though he was a donor to it. There doesn't have to be a conspiracy or a theory to see the pattern here.

Every government spies and uses the most current technology available to them to do so. The line of precedence regarding the USA was crossed going back to before the Revolutionary War. It was imported from Europe into the continental US hundreds of years ago.

There is an interesting television series that aired earlier in the year called "Turn" about the Culper Ring.

http://www.amctv.com/shows/turn


The more that people become married to technology (Mobile phones, internet, GPS ect), the easier it will be to track their every activity. If a government isn't already doing it, businesses are. Spying also happens to be a profitable industry, and thus the argument for free markets will be made when it is politically beneficial to even Libertarians.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:36 pm 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
If Rand Paul were to become president, todays Supreme court ruling to strip away rights from women is only the tip of the iceberg...




The more that people become married to technology (Mobile phones, internet, GPS ect), the easier it will be to track their every activity. If a government isn't already doing it, businesses are. Spying also happens to be a profitable industry, and thus the argument for free markets will be made when it is politically beneficial to even Libertarians.


Well, exactly - and therefore it's OK???

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:13 pm 
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brainpang wrote:
tweedle-dumb wrote:
Reposting the same picture of your big fat wife, or perhaps your sister or aunt, or most likely a combination of all of the above from the gene pool challenged inner-city region from which you reside only bolsters your lack of credibility, ignorance and denial.


Racist!


ROTF! :mrgreen:

Thanks for that. It perfectly displays how ultra-ridiculous him and his grandiose assumptions that parade as supposed proof, really are.

tweedle-dee wrote:
I understand your standpoint and find it reasoned, but have three points to make...


This is why you're almost as big of a fucking idiot as tweedle-dumb is...


Meanwhile, tweedle-dumb and tweedle-dee still don't realize (amongst a plethora of other things, including Rand Paul's platform) that if the majority of the Republicans were for free market-based economies (which most think would make the 1% richer, despite the FACT it's the complete opposite), then they wouldn't have hired the same lawyer that fucked over Al Gore in Florida in 2000 to change the rules on Ron Paul at the RNC in 2012, since he was otherwise qualified to be on the ballot. And hence, the majority of the Republicans would instead embrace said free market-based economies AND Ron Paul himself...

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:47 pm 
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Caputh wrote:
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
If Rand Paul were to become president, todays Supreme court ruling to strip away rights from women is only the tip of the iceberg...




The more that people become married to technology (Mobile phones, internet, GPS ect), the easier it will be to track their every activity. If a government isn't already doing it, businesses are. Spying also happens to be a profitable industry, and thus the argument for free markets will be made when it is politically beneficial to even Libertarians.


Well, exactly - and therefore it's OK???


I'm not saying that I am ok with having my personal information out there to be stockpiled for any reason, other than hospital/dentistry records and banking statements. Even that information can be used and misused in the wrong hands.

tweedle-douche wrote:
brainpang wrote:
SPACEBROTHER wrote:
Reposting the same picture of your big fat wife, or perhaps your sister or aunt, or most likely a combination of all of the above from the gene pool challenged inner-city region from which you reside only bolsters your lack of credibility, ignorance and denial.


Racist!


ROTF! :mrgreen:

Thanks for that. It perfectly displays how ultra-ridiculous him and his grandiose assumptions that parade as supposed proof, really are.


Of course, the "inner city" line is an embellishment from my original post, but I have no problem calling tweedle douche what he is. White trash.

Also of course, tweedle douche has been proven wrong so often by so many people that I've lost count. His ultra-ignorance and ultra-state-of-denial of the facts has been on disply here in Zappa forum land since the day he started posting. If his brain was as big as his ego, he might be mistaken for somebody that isn't afraid to admit he's wrong.

tweedle-douche wrote:
Caputh wrote:
I understand your standpoint and find it reasoned, but have three points to make...


This is why you're almost as big of a fucking idiot as tweedle-dumb is...


Meanwhile, tweedle-dumb and tweedle-dee still don't realize (amongst a plethora of other things, including Rand Paul's platform) that if the majority of the Republicans were for free market-based economies (which most think would make the 1% richer, despite the FACT it's the complete opposite), then they wouldn't have hired the same lawyer that fucked over Al Gore in Florida in 2000 to change the rules on Ron Paul at the RNC in 2012, since he was otherwise qualified to be on the ballot. And hence, the majority of the Republicans would instead embrace said free market-based economies AND Ron Paul himself...


You've posted this exact same statement on another unrelated thread. What an Isaac move that is. :roll: No wonder why nobody likes you here.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:55 pm 
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Ah - so, according to DB, if I post this...

Caputh wrote:
I understand your standpoint and find it reasoned, but have three points to make...

a) The fact that espionage has been happening since time immemorial does not invalidate the fact that the NSA has put itself in the position of being able to spy on absolutely everyone who uses what has replaced the postal service, the internet and mobile phones. This is pretty unique in the history of humanity and thus surely a matter of public interest. Obviously, the question of whether they would be physically able to process that data is moot. But it is the principle of the thing IMO.

b) I don't think that you really address the question of precedence. You happen to trust Obama. OK. However, Obama is not going to be there forever. How will you feel if, say, Rand Paul becomes President. Will you feel equally comfortable that he and his government have access to the same information?

c) Isn't the question of Snowden's political affiliation in this context irrelevant? Can you really provide concrete proof that there is a connection between Snowden and Ron Paul and then the NSA? All three working together? From an objective point of view this sounds like a conspiracy theory - and I know you don't like conspiracy theories. Did one examine e.g. Woodward and Bernstein's political affiliations before one decided that Watergate happened? Did it change the truth?

BTW the fact that it these facts were revealed shows, once again, what a complete an utter waste time of all intelligence services are: from Gestapo to Stasi to MI5 to KGB to CIA to NSA - they are an utter waste of time, money and lives and totally ineffective in themselves, IMO.



...it shows that I...

Disco Boy wrote:
[...]still don't realize (amongst a plethora of other things, including Rand Paul's platform) that if the majority of the Republicans were for free market-based economies (which most think would make the 1% richer, despite the FACT it's the complete opposite), then they wouldn't have hired the same lawyer that fucked over Al Gore in Florida in 2000 to change the rules on Ron Paul at the RNC in 2012, since he was otherwise qualified to be on the ballot. And hence, the majority of the Republicans would instead embrace said free market-based economies AND Ron Paul himself...


And when I post, in another thread...
Caputh wrote:
That is probably because you are in Canada. I receive the message on 2 of the previous links and the one above: "This video is not available in your country. Learn more." So the video is there, you just can't watch it in Europe, or, it seems, in Canada.


...it also shows that I...
Disco Boy wrote:
[...]still don't realize (amongst a plethora of other things, including Rand Paul's platform) that if the majority of the Republicans were for free market-based economies (which most think would make the 1% richer, despite the FACT it's the complete opposite), then they wouldn't have hired the same lawyer that fucked over Al Gore in Florida in 2000 to change the rules on Ron Paul at the RNC in 2012, since he was otherwise qualified to be on the ballot. And hence, the majority of the Republicans would instead embrace said free market-based economies AND Ron Paul himself...


Disco Boy's powers of logical combination are truly beyond belief!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:37 am 
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5 Reasons Rand Paul Is A Racist Conspiracy Theorist
http://urbanpetersburg.newsone.com/7856 ... -theorist/

Rand Paul’s team has another white supremacist
http://www.salon.com/2013/07/09/rand_pa ... premacist/

Rand Paul's troubling ties to racists
http://theweek.com/article/index/246600 ... to-racists

Rand Paul's Confederacy Scandal Is Not an Anomaly -- Libertarianism Papers Over Deep Racism in America
http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-r ... ers-racism

This is all one needs to realize about Rand Paul. Like racist father, like racist son. Tweedle-douche is proven wrong yet again...and again...and again...


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:15 pm 
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Yet even MORE extremely manipulative misquotes, misinterpretations and downright LIES from tweedle-dumb and tweedle-dee.

No surprises here, folks. :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:26 pm 
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Thing is, tweedle douche, there are no lies, misquotes and misinterpretations here, except for the ones you have spewed all over the forum. Just because the proven facts make you uncomfortable, doesn't change the facts from being FACTS. The people you choose to prop up and worship happen to have serious character flaws and sketchy backgrounds and alliances. You ARE the Trendmonger of the Libertarian movement. Just read one of your own posts sometime, then ask yourself why almost everybody on the forum dislikes you...that is, if you are even capable of looking at your own self objectively.


On the other hand, you may be perfectly happy and content to prop up and worship known racists and scam artists.


Your racist friends and fellow Libertarian Tea Party kool-ade drinkers are now targeting women and children with their racism...

Quote:
Protesters in California Block Buses Carrying Immigrants

Buses carrying migrant families arrived at a U.S.-Mexican border station Tuesday after they were blocked by flag-toting protesters and were rerouted earlier in Murrieta, California.

The immigrants, mainly children and their families who had fled violence in Central America, arrived earlier in the day in San Diego after being transferred from a facility in Texas.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/pro ... ts-n146066



...and how does that relate to Rand Paul?

Quote:
Jan. 2011: Paul issues a press release after co-sponsoring a constitutional amendment to end birthright citizenship for the children of illegal immigrants.

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013 ... eform?lite



...and he claims to be a Constitutionalist?...

Quote:
Citizenship in the United States is a matter of federal law, governed by the United States constitution.

Since the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment to the constitution on July 9, 1868, the citizenship of persons born in the United States has been controlled by its Citizenship Clause, which states:


"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright ... t_U.S._law



That's an unconstitutional point of view for a Libertarian who is supposedly a Constitution purist. Rand Paul's racism is very transparent with this legislation he co-sponsored to strip away a Constitutional amendment that has been around since shortly after the Civil War.

Pro-Confederacy - like father like son. Ron and rand Paul are 100% racist.

Facts are facts and tweedle-douche simply refuses to accept them. No surprises here folks. :P


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:38 am 
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Disco Boy wrote:
Yet even MORE extremely manipulative misquotes, misinterpretations and downright LIES from tweedle-dumb and tweedle-dee.

No surprises here, folks. :roll:


Isn't funny how when one quotes Disco Boy, often whole posts, word for word, one is somehow misquoting him?
Perhaps the answer lies in the possibility that Disco Boy is, in fact, misquoting himself.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:36 pm 
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tweedle-dee wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Yet even MORE extremely manipulative misquotes, misinterpretations and downright LIES from tweedle-dumb and tweedle-dee.

No surprises here, folks. :roll:


Isn't funny how when one quotes Disco Boy, often whole posts, word for word, one is somehow misquoting him?
Perhaps the answer lies in the possibility that Disco Boy is, in fact, misquoting himself.


Isn't it funny, when you claim to not misquote me, but of course do so in almost EVERY single case, then randomly insert them in your posts to reinforce your points that have no legs to them whatsoever, that you actually think you're somehow correct?

Perhaps you are so far in denial about not being able to even remotely come close to proving your points, that resorting to the above is ALL you can do?


Meanwhile, tweedle-dumb doesn't realize the difference between immigrants, illegal immigrants and US citizens, amongst very many other things...

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:11 pm 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGGVy4RkUs0
Travel like a king
Listen to the inner voice
A higher wisdom is at work for you
Conquering the stumbling blocks come easier
When the conqueror is in tune with the infinite
Every ending is a new beginning
Life is an endless unfoldment
Change your mind, and you change your relation to time

You can find the answer
The solution lies within the problem
The answer is in every question
Dig it?
An attitude is all you need to rise and walk away
Inspire yourself
Your life is yours
It fits you like your skin

The oak sleeps in the acorn
The giant sequoia tree sleeps in its tiny seed
The bird waits in the egg
God waits for his unfoldment in man
Fly on, children
Play on

You gravitate to that which you secretly love most
You meet in life the exact reproduction of your own thoughts
There is no chance, coincidence or accident
In a world ruled by law and divine order

You rise as high as your dominant aspiration
You descend to the level of your lowest concept of your self
Free your mind and your ass will follow

The infinite intelligence within you knows the answers
It's nature is to respond to your thoughts
Be careful of the thought-seeds you plant in the garden of your mind
For seeds grow after their kind

Every thought felt as true
Or allowed to be accepted as true by your conscious mind
Take roots in your subconscious
Blossoms sooner or later into an act
And bears its own fruit
Good thoughts bring forth good fruit
Bullshit thoughts rot your meat
Think right, and you can fly
The kingdom of heaven is within
Free your mind, and your ass will follow

~Eddie Hazel and George Clinton 1974


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:17 pm 
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Meanwhile Disco Douche a/k/a Tweedle-Douche goes so far out of his way defending known racists like Ron & Rand Paul that he obviously is one himself.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:01 pm 
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tweedle-dumb wrote:
Meanwhile Disco Douche a/k/a Tweedle-Douche goes so far out of his way defending known racists like Ron & Rand Paul that he obviously is one himself.


Meanwhile, tweedle-dumb still can't prove a god damn THING.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:32 am 
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Meanwhile, tweedle-douche is incapable of admitting that I, as well as everybody else here has proven him wrong countless times and on a daily basis.


“I wouldn’t vote against getting rid of the Jim Crow laws.” ~ Ron Paul

Quote:
Ron Paul Would Have Avoided The Civil War By Buying All The Slaves

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/ron-pa ... he-slaves/


Quote:
Correcting Ron Paul: Buying the Southern Slaves Was Not an Option

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2010/04 ... an-option/


Quote:
Ron Paul Advocates Government Slave Purchasing

http://wonkette.com/337340/ron-paul-adv ... purchasing


"Why didn’t the north just buy the south’s slaves and free them that way?" ~ Ron Paul

tweedle-douche - proven wrong again...and again...and again...and again...and again...


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:07 am 
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How pandering to people's prejudices works...
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:00 pm 
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Meanwhile, tweedle-dumb still can't prove a god damn THING.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:24 am 
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oh snap

Quote:
Ron Paul Is Supporting Russia’s Illegal Occupation of Crimea

In the Crimea crisis, it seems Ron Paul thinks that libertarianism stops at water’s edge.

The former Republican congressman and libertarian icon has long enjoyed a mixed reputation in the United States. While many admire Paul for his small government views on civil liberties, other shy away from a politician who has criticized the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and allowed a series of racist and conspiratorial news letters to be published under his own name.

However, the former congressman whose presidential bids in 2008 and 2012 helped elevate libertarians from a political afterthought to a key constituency in the Republican Party and whose son, Rand Paul is poised for a 2016 bid for the White House, has now started a new chapter of his career. He's defending the chauvinist and imperialist Russian regime of President Vladimir Putin.

Over the past several weeks, Paul has become one of the most vocal American supporters of Russia’s invasion and occupation of Crimea, a semi-autonomous region of Ukraine. In the aftermath of a revolution that drove out its ally in Kiev, Viktor Yanukovych, Moscow is attempting to annex the province by holding a “referendum” Sunday in hopes that it will provide a patina of legality to its blatantly illegal land grab. Paul, long a foe of military action and democracy promotion efforts overseas, has not been content to limit himself to criticisms of American policies in Eastern Europe. He has gone out of his way to legitimize and justify the actions of Putin.
...
A crucial element of Paul’s worldview and that of his paleoconservative brethren is that America began to go to hell in a hand-basket with the Union victory in the American Civil War. Abraham Lincoln’s firm use of executive power to crush the slaveholding states’ attempt to secede initiated, in their view, the centralization of federal government power that continues to this day. The 1992 issue of the Ron Paul Survival Report (the name of which was a deliberate appeal to the then burgeoning far-right “survivalist” movement preparing for racial apocalypse) stated that “the right of secession should be ingrained in a free society” and that “there is nothing wrong with loosely banding together small units of government. With the disintegration of the Soviet Union, we too should consider it.” Ironically, while Paul was applauding Ukrainian independence 20 years ago, he is now cheering the Crimea’s forcible reintegration into Russia.

In addition to whitewashing Russian aggression, Paul depicts some of the most benign elements of America’s overseas involvement as nefarious and illegitimate. “The evidence is pretty clear that the NGOs [non-governmental organizations] financed by our government have been agitating with billions of dollars, trying to get that government changed,” he told The Guardian. “Our hands are not clean.”


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... rimea.html




...so much for Ron Paul being anything that resembles an anti-war candidate. This ought to make tweedle-douche and a couple of other peoples heads spin with denial of the FACTS.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:26 pm 
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Meanwhile, tweedle-dumb STILL doesn't realize Ron Paul's position on the above matter... :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:35 pm 
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Meanwhile, tweedle-douche supports a man who supports a Communist dictator who is illegally occupying a sovereign foreign nation. So much for Ron Paul being the "anti-war" candidate. It's no wonder that he also has a boner for Snowden who is seeking asylum in the very same Communist country that is illegally occupying another country.


Quote:
Ron Paul defends Putin over Crimea referendum

Former US congressman Ron Paul has defended Russian President Vladimir Putin...

http://presstv.com/detail/2014/03/14/35 ... er-crimea/




Ron Paul sure likes to associate himself with the pro-Confederacy movement, White Supremacist Neo-Nazis, terrorist militias, wacko conspiracy theorists and now Communist Dictators.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:57 pm 
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Meanwhile, tweedle-dumb STILL doesn't realize Ron Paul's position on the above matter... :roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:27 pm 
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You fuckers do realize that none of this is going to matter if Hillary throws her hat in the ring next time. Right?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:05 am 
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Image


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:33 am 
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That's funny, but it doesn't change the truth in my statement. Guess we'll have to wait and see.


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