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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:50 pm 
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To no-one in particular. If you want to argue about this, do it here instead of poxing up everyone else's threads.

Also to no-one in particular but to anyone who believes this period in history is really special, beyond the fact that you just happen to exist right now. Think of a serf in a field somewhere in England 500 years ago, working his arse off to feed the local Landlord or King or whatever and the little bit of time he has left in which to feed his family, day dreaming about the possibility that the world will change for the better. In what way shape or form could he have had any idea what life would be like today? Zip.

So what makes you think this, now, is it? What makes you think we've reached the pinnacle of human civilisation? What makes you think we've already figured out the best possible way to live? You've got little or no idea what life could be like in 500 years time and for all you know, people will look back on your life with the same kind of pity we can view the miserable life of a serf at the height of Feudalism.

Humans are basically a bunch of jumped up apes with an opposed thumb and forefinger, with way too many big ideas and are largely fucking catastrophes waiting to happen.

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The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:56 am 
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Location: Billy, the mountain...
I agree.

Capitalism isn't moving the project foward!

Capitalism (at least in its hegemonic neoliberal form spread around the world today) is a form of predatory ideology, as opposed to economic system, which is akin to an animal eating itself from the tail...

Unlce Z started a thread no one seemed to care about:
Wealth Inequality

BTW, we started a discussion almost 4 years ago, so you will find some ideas there:
Rise and Fall of the Capitalist System

Some trailers of documentaries on the theme and some small clips:

Four Horsemen - Official Trailer I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLoB1eCJ93k


Economy is not science...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NiauhOCfsk


Overdose: The Next Financial Crisis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ECi6WJpbzE
[I didn't see this one yet... Full doc]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NiauhOCfsk

Global Financial Meltdown
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4XfNiqwQDo


There are others around. I also recommend (as usual) Oliver Stone's The Untold Story of the US, although it is more poetically focused, has some important post-modern colonial history facts that should be considered in this equation.

The buzz word is Resource Based Economy...

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:26 am 
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polydigm wrote:
To no-one in particular. If you want to argue about this, do it here instead of poxing up everyone else's threads.

Also to no-one in particular but to anyone who believes this period in history is really special, beyond the fact that you just happen to exist right now. Think of a serf in a field somewhere in England 500 years ago, working his arse off to feed the local Landlord or King or whatever and the little bit of time he has left in which to feed his family, day dreaming about the possibility that the world will change for the better. In what way shape or form could he have had any idea what life would be like today? Zip.

So what makes you think this, now, is it? What makes you think we've reached the pinnacle of human civilisation? What makes you think we've already figured out the best possible way to live? You've got little or no idea what life could be like in 500 years time and for all you know, people will look back on your life with the same kind of pity we can view the miserable life of a serf at the height of Feudalism.

Humans are basically a bunch of jumped up apes with an opposed thumb and forefinger, with way too many big ideas and are largely fucking catastrophes waiting to happen.

other than that it's fucking great to be alive !

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:46 pm 
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I wonder if David Beckham would accecpt a wheelbarrow of gourds as payment for his 'job'.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:01 pm 
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Joke Warning!!!!

[joke]David Beckham can go fuck himself, that should be payment enough, there are plenty of people out there wishing he'd do it to them.[/joke]

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The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:50 pm 
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No criticism :mrgreen: :D

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:40 pm 
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I like it Poly and I also agree…

The Sci Fi guys usually have the best track record for guessing the future and they lean to a Star Trek no money everyone participates kind of thing, who knows Gene Roddenberry was pretty freaking accurate... :idea:

What I do know is if the Anarchists get their way we would see death and diseases on a scale like none other in history, they have no clue the delicate balance of our infrastructure... :!:

What I like about our age are simple things dentistry (huge), communications (huge), and Transportation (huge)... :D

What I don’t like Crowds (sucks), Ignorance (sucks), Want (sucks) and a society that has sanitized itself in to boarder line anemia... :(

Bottom line Capitalism has out lived its usefulness, the boys with the money have run amuck, they gave the keys to the Kingdom to a bunch of bean counters with pie charts and graphs... :arrow:

Their companies are making multi billion dollar quarterly profits and they are still trying to cut a work force that has been depleted beyond bare bone. Everyone is doing the work of two or three and they will never replace those who left. They want to crush the Union that they see as their enemy because they are the only thing that stops them from cutting pay even more...trikle down job creators, I think not... :|

They justify their own existence by putting other peoples jobs out of existence, and they create nothing... :smoke:


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:16 pm 
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Most of you lefties here (especially polydigm, since he doesn't even know the definition of the word "capital") don't even understand what Capitalism is, not to mention that many countries you think are Capitalist economies (the US hasn't been one since 1929) technically aren't but are actually Mixed Economies (a mixture of Socialism/Capitalism policies) - which is part of the problem and is one of the primary reasons why the Housing Bubble Crisis happened. Too many people throw Capitalism in the same pile as Mixed Economies, Corporatism, Imperialism and/or the Military Industrial Complex, which currently have a stranglehold on Capitalism. But they are NOT the same thing. And it's important people realize this.

As long as its allowed to fully function and despite there admittedly being some problems embedded within it, Capitalism works fine and always has. History PROVES this. The Industrial Revolution, the Roaring Twenties, Mussolini's Italy of the early-mid '20s and more recently with Chile, are the best examples. The massive amount of technological developments, innovations, productivity and jobs created in the marketplace would NOT have occurred without Capitalism. Time and time again, Socialism/Communism has FAILED and FAILED HARD. But whenever countries introduce Capitalism principles to their economic systems, they see immediate economic booms. China & Russia are the best recent examples of this.

So please stop acting like you actually know what you're talking about. You're severely embarrassing yourselves.

I can assure you, if Frank were still alive and read this thread, he'd be laughing his ass off...

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:41 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
Most of you ...blah blah blah... I can assure you, if Frank were still alive...blah blah



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:10 am 
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Funny how some on here are so quick to dismiss ' capitalism ' and , at the same time , so eager to embrace the serfdom that Obama has planned for here in America.

Looks at over 50 % of the population here in the USA receiving some type of government assistance. Then look at the 30,000 + people that have joined the gov't payroll in the past 5 years.( Bringing the total direct gov't workers to 2,804,000 ) Then look at how many more people Obama wants to suck into his camp via ' public unions ' and gov't contracts to the private sector.

Then ask yourself this question. If you benefit from the gov't handouts and / or work for the gov't , are you going to vote against that gov't and bite the hand that feeds you ?

Hell no you're not. So you become a drone for the gov't .
Just like any good socialist kid . :wink:

I'll take free enterprise and ' capitalism ' over being an indentured servant any day.

Remember , a government big enough to give you stuff , is also big enough to take it away , too. :wink:

no republican talking points here , just opinion and fact


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:52 am 
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It truly is a pipe dream, but I would love to see the resource based economy idea that the Venus Project has been doing research into. Capitalism is subject to many layers of corruption and can easily bring corruption into other systems, like democracy, communism, etc...

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:42 am 
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Capitalists on average have better rock concerts.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:22 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
...
Think of a serf in a field somewhere in England 500 years ago, working his arse off to feed the local Landlord or King or whatever and the little bit of time he has left in which to feed his family, day dreaming about the possibility that the world will change for the better.
...

Very nice description of every day live of probably the majority of people living on this planet TODAY.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:40 pm 
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Sebastiao Salgado
Serra Pelado, Gold Mine
1989

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god, what a cheap bubble machine!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:56 pm 
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pedro2 wrote:
Funny how some on here are so quick to dismiss ' capitalism ' and , at the same time , so eager to embrace the serfdom that Obama has planned for here in America.

Looks at over 50 % of the population here in the USA receiving some type of government assistance. Then look at the 30,000 + people that have joined the gov't payroll in the past 5 years.( Bringing the total direct gov't workers to 2,804,000 ) Then look at how many more people Obama wants to suck into his camp via ' public unions ' and gov't contracts to the private sector.

Then ask yourself this question. If you benefit from the gov't handouts and / or work for the gov't , are you going to vote against that gov't and bite the hand that feeds you ?

Hell no you're not. So you become a drone for the gov't .
Just like any good socialist kid . :wink:

I'll take free enterprise and ' capitalism ' over being an indentured servant any day.

Remember , a government big enough to give you stuff , is also big enough to take it away , too. :wink:

no republican talking points here , just opinion and fact


Too bad most here either don't understand this or deny it... :wink:

phydeaux3 wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Most of you ...blah blah blah... I can assure you, if Frank were still alive...blah blah



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Yet another excellent rebuttal...and this time, with misquotes! The law firm of Gang Tyre and Brown have you scheduled for a second interview tomorrow...

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:56 pm 
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BRAVO SIERRA wrote:
polydigm wrote:
To no-one in particular. If you want to argue about this, do it here instead of poxing up everyone else's threads.

Also to no-one in particular but to anyone who believes this period in history is really special, beyond the fact that you just happen to exist right now. Think of a serf in a field somewhere in England 500 years ago, working his arse off to feed the local Landlord or King or whatever and the little bit of time he has left in which to feed his family, day dreaming about the possibility that the world will change for the better. In what way shape or form could he have had any idea what life would be like today? Zip.

So what makes you think this, now, is it? What makes you think we've reached the pinnacle of human civilisation? What makes you think we've already figured out the best possible way to live? You've got little or no idea what life could be like in 500 years time and for all you know, people will look back on your life with the same kind of pity we can view the miserable life of a serf at the height of Feudalism.

Humans are basically a bunch of jumped up apes with an opposed thumb and forefinger, with way too many big ideas and are largely fucking catastrophes waiting to happen.

other than that it's fucking great to be alive !

If there's anybody here who doesn't believe that it is fuckin' great to be alive, I wish they would go now!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:02 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
Yet another excellent rebuttal...and this time, with misquotes! The law firm of Gang Tyre and Brown have you scheduled for a second interview tomorrow...


That's rich, coming from someone who claims he speaks for the dead!

The psychic firm of Seers, Mystery Man, and Psychotic Arsehole....but I'm sure you've already intuited the rest of the sentence with that massive analytical thingamabobbity of yours.

It's not even the politics that you're interested in, it's WINNING the FIGHT! - count me out, I'm one of The Easybeats...

Disco boy! run to toilet and comb your hair.
Disco boy! pucker your lip, and check your shoulders,
Cause some dandruff might be hiding there.

Dicsore boy, you're the disco king!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:05 pm 
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pedro2 wrote:
over 50 % of the population here in the USA is receiving some type of government assistance
I'll take free enterprise and ' capitalism ' over being an indentured servant any day.


Take?
It was the government that handed the capitalist system to you. They spoon fed it to you. If you sing the praises of capitalism then you sing the praises of government assistance. Or do you think you seized capitalism all on your own?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:38 pm 
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You really are a downer , aren't ya . :|

Capitalism has been going on since on since the first clam was traded for something else.

What government was in place then ? :?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:50 pm 
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Everybody uses blanket statements all the time.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:59 pm 
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Yet every blanket does not use a body all the time.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:25 pm 
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pedro2 wrote:
Capitalism has been going on since on since the first clam was traded for something else.


Is that a fact?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:40 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
Yet every blanket does not use a body all the time.


You can't blanket all of the people all of the time.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:41 pm 
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downer mydnyte wrote:
It was the government that handed the capitalist system to you.



I maintain bullshit.

Capitalism evolved as a result of the free enterprise system. It was not the cause of the free market and ever since one cave man uttered sounds , that we now call words , to another cave man that he might have something he might like .... for a price , the seeds of the free market were spread.

So , again , what government are you talking about ? :?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:37 pm 
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This is what happens when people insist on using the word capitalism to apply to economic activity like a lot of people these days use classical to apply to music. It's lost it's essential meaning from when it was first coined. Capitalism becomes possible when the ability to produce surplus value significantly exceeds the social need to immediately consume it, in hand with a well established form of money wealth. Capitalism may thrive on trade, but trade in itself does not equal capitalism. Trading a sheep for some wheat does not make you a capitalist. A true, fully fledged capitalist is an entity that has accumulated enough capital in order to privately own and independently run a slice of the means of production and thereafter expand it's net worth purely from the production and accumulation of surplus value.

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