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 Post subject: Re: Courrier's book
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2003 8:02 am 
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Across the board (zappa.com, D.Walley, B.Watson, G. Russo), Burnt Weeny Sandwich is listed as being released in 1970. In addition, the publishing and copyright notices on the CD are dated 1970.

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 Post subject: Re: Courrier's book
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2003 8:45 am 
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I also believe Lumpy Gravy was released after We're Only In it For The Money; my best information tells me that Capitol Records had originally planned to release a version of the album in 1967. It assigned a number to the record and created a cover for it, but its release was prevented, as Verve Records threatened a lawsuit (as we all know, FZ was under contract with Verve).<br><br>The matter was resolved when Verve bought the masters from Capitol and Frank took some of this material and combined it with new contributions from Motorhead, Roy Estrada and others to create Lumpy Gravy as we know it. <br><br>Neil Slaven states that Lumpy Gravy was released after "Money," and Greg Russo has it released in May of 1968.  I think the ZFT and Ryko have this one wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Courrier's book
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2003 8:53 am 
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[quote author=Chris_Federico link=board=general;num=1043687122;start=0#2 date=01/27/03 at 10:24:18]<br>Welcome back, Them! I hope everything's going okay for you!<br><br>The release dates you're talking about are all U.K. In Miles's 2 books with discographies in them (one of them being the Illustrated History), as well as Amazon and MY ORIGINAL VINYL RECORD COVER, the copyright date is 1969.<br><br>The reason for the contradictions is that the album was released in the US in December of 1969.<br><br>If it's that close, however, I guess I shouldn't be too worried about whatever Courrier says. The rest of my points stand, though.<br><br>It's nice to see you back -- and correcting me, just like old times!  ;)[/quote]<br><br>Hmm; very interesting!<br><br>Is it publishing dates that are listed as being from 1969? How does your copyright information read?<br><br>It's a near-certainty that the material was copyrighted and published prior to its release; of course and as you know release dates don't always coincide with the copyright info.<br><br>Nice to "see" you too...

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 Post subject: Re: Courrier's book
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2003 1:08 pm 
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Slaven and Russo agree with Courrier about Clapton.

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 Post subject: Re: Courrier's book
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2003 6:19 pm 
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Roman Garcia's website chronology mentions 'WAOIIFTM' release before 'LG':<br><br>http://globalia.net/donlope/fz/chronology/1965-1969.html<br><br>And I guess it has been reviewed and corrected so many times by alt.fan.frank-zappers that you can safely trust it... <br>'Hang up' and 'God' voice sounds the same to me (whether it is Clapton or not, and frankly I wouldn't care less).<br>


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 Post subject: Re: Courrier's book
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 8:01 am 
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Chris, "Are You Hung Up" sounds so much like Eric Clapton I could swear he's standing over my shoulder giving me cues.<br><br>

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 Post subject: Re: Courrier's book
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 8:18 am 
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I think Chris F is deaf....<br><br>this also goes for his incorrect assumption that Manny the Camper wants to buy some white FISH.<br>It's GAS not FISH!!! Why would a guy be buying fish at a gas station anyway???

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 Post subject: Re: Courrier's book
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 8:25 am 
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[quote author=Chris_Federico link=board=general;num=1043687122;start=0#0 date=01/27/03 at 09:05:22]<br>See, that's why I'm getting Zappology published. A book has yet to appear that just deals with the music, song by song, and points out all the nifty connections and cross-references. I don't have any interest in reading the same biographical stuff over and over -- focus on the music, dammit! And get your release dates in order!<br>-- Peaceful Chris<br>.[/quote]<br><br>The problem with doing that is your book will still be incorrect and non-factual because you are using your opinions on alot stuff not the real facts so it still holds no merit and is just as bad as giving a wrong date.<br><br>JP - Self proclaimed ZAPPA know it all!!

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 Post subject: Re: Courrier's book
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 10:05 am 
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[quote author=Chris_Federico link=board=general;num=1043687122;start=0#14 date=01/28/03 at 10:36:16]<br><br>Jay: I'M deaf? There's no way Davey is shouting anything other than "fish" -- it's not like I'm the only one who thinks that. Pull your head out, man. Do you want me to apologize that you're not always right?<br><br>I run questionable things by forum members exactly BECAUSE I don't want my book to be inaccurate.<br><br>It's funny that a group of such snotty know-it-alls could accuse ME of trying to be a know-it-all. <br><br>I swear, no matter how often I walk on eggshells, some of you guys just immediately jump to the conclusion that I think I know more than you do, and you don't even weigh the opinions in my posts -- you don't wonder, "Well, could he be right?" or "Well, if he's wrong, what alternative should I offer?" It's always "ad hominum" -- attacking the man with the opinion, rather than contesting the opinion itself.<br>[/quote]<br><br>Yes you are deaf and dumb all over!!<br><br>Here once again are 2 examples of the FACTS about the WHITE GAS!!! From the mouth of the composer!!!!<br>You need to learn to seperate facts from your opinion.<br><br>What do You mean no facts You must have been on the O.J. jury. your opinions are wrong... flat out. <br>LOL These quotes are straight from FZ. Facts by the writer of the song and simple ones at that <br> <br>#1  <br>Eric Buxton: Who was the original Manny the camper? I know he wanted white gas, but who was he?     <br>   <br>Frank Zappa: Just anybody named Manny who had an RV, y'know.  <br>  <br>>>>Don't ya think FZ would have corrected him I think so.  <br>  <br>#2 - Interview on knon Dallas, TX 08/19/89   <br>   <br>Interviewer: Manny the Camper really wants to buy some White what??  <br>FZ: Some White Gas.   <br>Interviewer: And what is that?   <br>FZ: White Gas? That's what they call Kerosene.  <br>  <br>Nuff said...... I believe FZ.  <br>Yeah I know FZ was sometimes vauge but he was very detail oriented when speaking in interviews about songs. I have a ton of interviews on tape and he always corrected miss-leading info about whatever subject, songs, band members, dates etc. If they said something wrong he would always correct them.<br><br>You are wrong all over and maybe a little too sensetive on the side!!!!<br>

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 Post subject: Re: Courrier's book
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 11:11 am 
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[quote author=jaypfunk link=board=general;num=1043687122;start=0#12 date=01/28/03 at 10:18:48]I think Chris F is deaf....<br><br>this also goes for his incorrect assumption that Manny the Camper wants to buy some white FISH.<br>It's GAS not FISH!!! Why would a guy be buying fish at a gas station anyway???[/quote]<br><br>Manny The Camper wants to buy some whitefish.<br><br>Davey Moire sings that on the Zoot Allures version of "Wind Up Workin' In A Gas Station," plain as day. If Zappa claims he's talking about white gas, (and in some versions I've heard, "fish" is indeed left off) he's invoking ambiguity, not an uncommon tactic from him.<br><br>(Some gas stations stock whitefish, by the way.)<br>

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 Post subject: Re: Courrier's book
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 11:29 am 
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Once again.... <br>THE FACTS<br>(facts=an interesting concept... Chris and Them should try it sometime)<br><br>These quotes are straight from FZ. Facts by the writer of the song and simple ones at that  <br>  <br>#1   <br>Eric Buxton: Who was the original Manny the camper? I know he wanted white gas, but who was he?      <br>    <br>Frank Zappa: Just anybody named Manny who had an RV, y'know.   <br>   <br>>>>Don't ya think FZ would have corrected him I think so.   <br>   <br>#2 - Interview on knon Dallas, TX 08/19/89    <br>    <br>Interviewer: Manny the Camper really wants to buy some White what??   <br>FZ: Some White Gas.    <br>Interviewer: And what is that?    <br>FZ: White Gas? That's what they call Kerosene.   <br>   <br>Nuff said...... I believe FZ.   <br>Yeah I know FZ was sometimes vauge but he was very detail oriented when speaking in interviews about songs. I have a ton of interviews on tape and he always corrected miss-leading info about whatever subject, songs, band members, dates etc. If they said something wrong he would always correct them.

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 Post subject: Re: Courrier's book
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 11:40 am 
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jaypfunk,<br><br>So you are hereby claiming that Davey Moire isn't singing "whitefish" on Zoot Allures?<br><br>Because all that Chris and I are saying is that he is.<br><br>We aren't saying that Frank didn't state that Manny the Camper wanted white gas in an interview. We are discussing what was sung on Zoot Allures.<br><br>

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 Post subject: Re: Courrier's book
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:29 am 
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[quote author=Them link=board=general;num=1043687122;start=15#18 date=01/28/03 at 13:40:06]jaypfunk,<br><br>So you are hereby claiming that Davey Moire isn't singing "whitefish" on Zoot Allures?<br><br>Because all that Chris and I are saying is that he is.<br><br>We aren't saying that Frank didn't state that Manny the Camper wanted white gas in an interview. We are discussing what was sung on Zoot Allures.<br>[/quote]<br><br>Yes THEM... I am hereby claiming that Davey Moire is NOT singing "whitefish" on Zoot Allures<br><br>In the interviews what other than the song Wind up Working In A Gas Station from Zoot would Frank be talking about?? Without a doubt they were discussing the song.<br><br>The questions to Frank were clearly asked to find out what was being said in WUWIAGS. Frank answered the questions quickly and to the point, no run-around. There is no big mystery here or stupid made up continuity crap like Chris Fed was saying that Manny was a Jew name and because of that it had to be fish that he wants. That shit is plain stupid. Frank wasn't always that deep. <br><br>My original intention in all this was....<br>I read Chris' book online and found some things to inaccurate based on what came out of Frank Zappa's mouth.<br>I told Chris about these things and he decided that his opinions were worth more than what FZ said.<br>He claimed he wanted to write a book that was differant than all the other ones that had inaccuracy in them but his book is going to be filled with nothing but wrong shit and one mans point of view... HIS and that sucks. His book will be filled nothing but his lame ass assumptions. Another lame book. I was only trying to help him and he got defensive. So fuck him. He can go away for all I care.<br><br>Hey Chris F...<br><br>[img]mywebpages.comcast.net/jaypfunk/ShutTheFuckUp.jpg[/img]

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 Post subject: Re: Courrier's book
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:17 am 
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yep, and the longest dicky betts trill in the midst of elizabeth reid is 44 secs... <br><br>mungo

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