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 Post subject: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:40 am 
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This isn't a thread about whether Ron Paul is racist or not. It deals with a discussion on Libertarian (mostly economic) beliefs.

The following post is the last one in a discussion that took place on the "Breaking News" thread...



Caputh wrote:
DB! First of all, apologies for taking taking so long in replying to your post - I've had lots of work to do.

One thing, however, should be noted. What I think you're doing is providing a prediction of what things would be like, if a truly Libertarian economic policy were instituted. Actually, I think this puts you at a unfair disadvantage, as it could make it very easy for oneself to just say "Ha, ha - there's no way this is ever going to happen! Human beings don't behave in that way! The markets don't work that way etc."
This means I'm well aware that you are positing an ideal that it would be all too easy to unfairly criticize. I'm going to attempt to avoid doing that.

Disco Boy wrote:
Libertarians believe in smaller Government and how it should be less intrusive in our lives by basically only protecting our rights, liberties, upholding non-coercive policies (with very few exceptions), defending the homeland against foreign enemies and not much else. So I don't see how an economic or political power could take control of the system on the scale they have now, especially since the virtual non-existence of lobbyists through lack of Government interference would mean coercive monopolization and related controls would be next to impossible to establish.


I would argue that the same people (or the 1%, if you like) would probably still have the economic power. The lack of restrictions on their modus operandi would grant them increased political power. If it's the same people - what incentive do they suddenly have for behaving in ethical fashion? Wouldn't they just exploit their new-found freedom? The only counter-measure viable, IMO, would be a press that had total access to the workings of each and every company i.e. total transparency.

Disco Boy wrote:
Again, mostly the opposite would happen. Since the market would be larger and free-er, as well as unemployment being much lower, demand for goods and services would be generally as high or higher for many products because competition would be aplenty. So consequently prices would HAVE TO be lower for the consumer or else businesses would either HAVE TO lose business or go out of business. And if crappier products were sold, many, if not all of them wouldn't last very long since the consumer wouldn't continually have to buy them in most cases, as there would be too many other similar purchasable options in the marketplace available.


I disagree, at least in the short term, that it is likely that unemployment would be lower. As you, yourself, point out many firms would go out of business, as they would no longer be competitive. The unemployed workers from these firms and companies would then be forced to accept lower pay in order to gain unemployment from a smaller amount of firms.
It might be true, in the long-term, that an ideal market would be created but it would have to weather the discontent of those laid off employees -whether the introduction of such a policy would therefore enable thos politicians who intrioduced to survive politically seems debatable.

Disco Boy wrote:
Well, remember, we technically don't live in a free market. So coercive monopolies are much more likely to exist and perpetuate. But you can bet your ass if we were to establish a free-er market economy, that even though Apple and Microsoft would probably still hold the lion's share of the profits in their particular market, a free-er marketplace would ensure more competitors a much better chance at success and/or the likelihood of even more innovations.

As for them doing less if we regulate them less...again...they'd HAVE TO manufacture and sell what the consumer demands, otherwise they'd lose or go out of business and as a result, other all other smart competitors would pick up the slack to meet the consumer demand for that product, or they'd lose or go out of business too...


I'm not sure here how far your Libertarianism goes. In how far would you envisage government interference in the creation of cartels or secret agreements between firms and companies? The major danger to me appears to be agreements within industries to produce products of a particular quality at a particular, thus bypassing any demand or criticism by the consumer (this film on the topic is pretty good IMO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfbbF3oxf-E).

On the other hand, I have heard of Libertarians who say that a measure of control of cartels/price fixing etc, is one economic policy tool that should be retained by government. Where do you stand here?

Lastly, I'm very much aware that many might not consider this "Breaking News". So I've stared a new thread with the hopefully neutral title of "The Libertarians". Perhaps you and anyone else interested could post there?

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Last edited by Caputh on Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:43 am 
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Hopefully this is where the stuff that's not breaking news will go.
:mrgreen:
TT

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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:16 am 
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Hopefully. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:16 pm 
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Actually, I learned [about] something new, yesterday:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_School

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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:10 pm 
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That link turned my brain to paste.

Platform of the Libertarian Party in America:

http://www.lp.org/platform


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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:54 pm 
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thx for doing this Caputh.
I'm pretty convinced after decades of experience that libertarians don't really have anything to offer for me,
or for any other living things that aren't them. And if they have nothing to offer - like oxygen or interesting ideas -
why would I want to spend my time with people like that?

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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:15 pm 
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Their basic premise is that government should not exist except as a conduit or mechanism for commerce, justice, and defense. Other than that, it shouldn't be "doing" anything.

I'm sure that kills a lot of people because a lot of people have all sorts of wonderful ideas about what government ought to be "doing".

I say let people do those wonderful things and keep government out of it. That's another difficult concept for folks to embrace.

Of course, it's silly to think that even if many Libertarians were elected that suddenly all their ideals would come to be. But I think some Libertarian influence would be very helpful in maintaining our republic. The US Government has become a sick monster, and needs to be cut back severely. It will never happen with the "fast-track TPP" crowd, which is also the War Party, which is also the fuckers that sold us out. We have to break that grip somehow, so why not add a few Libertarians?

Communists ain't gonna make it.


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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:38 pm 
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Caputh wrote:
DB! First of all, apologies for taking taking so long in replying to your post - I've had lots of work to do.


Not a problem at all.

Caputh wrote:
One thing, however, should be noted. What I think you're doing is providing a prediction of what things would be like, if a truly Libertarian economic policy were instituted. Actually, I think this puts you at a unfair disadvantage, as it could make it very easy for oneself to just say "Ha, ha - there's no way this is ever going to happen! Human beings don't behave in that way! The markets don't work that way etc."
This means I'm well aware that you are positing an ideal that it would be all too easy to unfairly criticize. I'm going to attempt to avoid doing that.


Well, human beings behave in many ways. But, for the most part, if constructed properly, markets HAVE TO cow-tow to demand. And hence they definitely don't work in the way the left think they do. Anyone who understands basic economics knows this to be true.

Caputh wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Libertarians believe in smaller Government and how it should be less intrusive in our lives by basically only protecting our rights, liberties, upholding non-coercive policies (with very few exceptions), defending the homeland against foreign enemies and not much else. So I don't see how an economic or political power could take control of the system on the scale they have now, especially since the virtual non-existence of lobbyists through lack of Government interference would mean coercive monopolization and related controls would be next to impossible to establish.


I would argue that the same people (or the 1%, if you like) would probably still have the economic power. The lack of restrictions on their modus operandi would grant them increased political power. If it's the same people - what incentive do they suddenly have for behaving in ethical fashion? Wouldn't they just exploit their new-found freedom? The only counter-measure viable, IMO, would be a press that had total access to the workings of each and every company i.e. total transparency.


How could you successfully argue that when I've already gone above over why your summary would be next to impossible? It simply couldn't be all the same people that would have control. Possibly some, though.

Caputh wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Again, mostly the opposite would happen. Since the market would be larger and free-er, as well as unemployment being much lower, demand for goods and services would be generally as high or higher for many products because competition would be aplenty. So consequently prices would HAVE TO be lower for the consumer or else businesses would either HAVE TO lose business or go out of business. And if crappier products were sold, many, if not all of them wouldn't last very long since the consumer wouldn't continually have to buy them in most cases, as there would be too many other similar purchasable options in the marketplace available.


I disagree, at least in the short term, that it is likely that unemployment would be lower. As you, yourself, point out many firms would go out of business, as they would no longer be competitive. The unemployed workers from these firms and companies would then be forced to accept lower pay in order to gain unemployment from a smaller amount of firms.
It might be true, in the long-term, that an ideal market would be created but it would have to weather the discontent of those laid off employees -whether the introduction of such a policy would therefore enable thos politicians who intrioduced to survive politically seems debatable.


Competitors would only go out of business under those conditions if they a) sold inferior products, b) the products sold became so unpopular that they couldn't sell them any longer or c) all of the above.

Caputh wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Well, remember, we technically don't live in a free market. So coercive monopolies are much more likely to exist and perpetuate. But you can bet your ass if we were to establish a free-er market economy, that even though Apple and Microsoft would probably still hold the lion's share of the profits in their particular market, a free-er marketplace would ensure more competitors a much better chance at success and/or the likelihood of even more innovations.

As for them doing less if we regulate them less...again...they'd HAVE TO manufacture and sell what the consumer demands, otherwise they'd lose or go out of business and as a result, other all other smart competitors would pick up the slack to meet the consumer demand for that product, or they'd lose or go out of business too...


I'm not sure here how far your Libertarianism goes. In how far would you envisage government interference in the creation of cartels or secret agreements between firms and companies? The major danger to me appears to be agreements within industries to produce products of a particular quality at a particular, thus bypassing any demand or criticism by the consumer (this film on the topic is pretty good IMO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfbbF3oxf-E).


Bypassing demand or criticism by the consumer?! If there's no demand (= consumers voting with their wallets), a market economy CANNOT exist.

That was an interesting documentary, though. And while that probably is happening to a degree, what we're discussing is what happens or is projected to happen in a free-er market economy. Most worldwide markets are heavily over-regulated Mixed Economies.

And again, since there would be hardly any Government interference at all, that would also be next to impossible, at least on the scale you're talking about.

Caputh wrote:
On the other hand, I have heard of Libertarians who say that a measure of control of cartels/price fixing etc, is one economic policy tool that should be retained by government. Where do you stand here?


IF needed, this could be useful.

Caputh wrote:
Lastly, I'm very much aware that many might not consider this "Breaking News". So I've stared a new thread with the hopefully neutral title of "The Libertarians" http://zappa.com/messageboard/viewtopic ... bertarians. Perhaps you and anyone else interested could post there?


Fine by me. And thank you for starting this thread.

punknaynowned wrote:
thx for doing this Caputh.
I'm pretty convinced after decades of experience that libertarians don't really have anything to offer for me,
or for any other living things that aren't them. And if they have nothing to offer - like oxygen or interesting ideas -
why would I want to spend my time with people like that?


Excellent response to my previous post. :roll:


Btw, we're discussing these ideas deep within the greatest free market of our time...






















...the internet.

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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:19 pm 
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...except for minorities...especially blacks. :roll: Racism overshadows all other Libertarian issues. The Klan ain't flocking to the Libertarian party because of economic models or the size of gov't.


A little research goes a long way at calling out these misinformed brainwashed Libertarians...

http://www.businessinsider.com/exposing ... rd-2011-10

http://www.businessinsider.com/peter-sc ... an-2011-10

http://thedailybanter.com/2013/06/the-m ... d-racists/


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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:41 am 
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A comment from one of the Business Insider articles linked to above^.

Brian Gates on Oct 3, 10:02 PM said:
Opponents of individualism often use racism as a red herring to evade the philosophical argument for individual rights and capitalism. I think that's what you're doing here. The claim that "libertarianism" is a fundamentally racist ideology is a false, malicious generalization about "libertarians." Unless you have evidence of a racist statement or action on my part, you don't have a valid complaint against me, and are really just obstructing the desperately-needed debate about the proper role of government by defaming your opponents. I also think your strategy will ultimately backfire on you as more young people realize that this kind of crap is all that the left really has.


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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:42 am 
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O yeah that's a good one...


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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:59 am 
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SPACEBROTHER wrote:
...except for minorities...especially blacks. :roll: Racism overshadows all other Libertarian issues. The Klan ain't flocking to the Libertarian party because of economic models or the size of gov't.


A little research goes a long way at calling out these misinformed brainwashed Libertarians...

http://www.businessinsider.com/exposing ... rd-2011-10

http://www.businessinsider.com/peter-sc ... an-2011-10

http://thedailybanter.com/2013/06/the-m ... d-racists/


My dear SB. As you might have noticed from my first post this is not intended to be a thread about racism and Libertarianism. Rather, it was created for critics and proponents of Libertarianism to discuss other aspects of this credo, mainly economic.
If you want to discuss racist aspects of Libertarianism, real or unreal, please feel free to do it on the Voting Ron Paul Wars thread or maybe create another one yourself on which I might very well post.

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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:16 am 
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A rope leash, quoting Brian Gates, wrote:
I also think your strategy will ultimately backfire on you as more young people realize that this kind of crap is all that the left really has.
That brush stroke is about as broad as this planet. Typical libertarians may or may not be racists, but there's way more to this issue than that. This guy criticises a certain type of attack against his own, possibly justifiably, and comes back with something at least equally, if not way more pathetic in response. The entire left movement of the world (and let's not forget it's not a single coherent movement) cannot be so easily brushed aside.

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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:34 am 
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In the USA, the so-called "left" have held executive power for several years. I don't really think there's all that much difference between the "left" and "right" in this country, it's all just a show for the bread and circuses crowd.

But, what has nearly eight years of Obama done for us? Of course, it depends on who is judging, but it's plainly clear to me that healthcare has been fucked over, the Empire War Machine has reached new and appalling heights of global misbehavior, local police forces have been militarized to a deadly extent, and now a new secretive trade deal is being pushed through that will apparently fuck us all for good. How do we know? We don't for sure, because nobody is allowed to read it, but who wouldn't suspect it to contain awful shit if it's classified?

So, what the "left" is left with is distractive slurs against it's so-called opponents. They are desperate to portray the "opposition" as racist pedophiles, when in fact they are racist themselves, and have their own share of pedos. Race-baiting, innuendo, and slander is all they have left, because they must distract the populace from the fucked-up mess they have created.

It's all bullshit. People are racist in the USA...no shit sherlock...when did you figure that one out? Does anyone really think the African race is innocent of this? Obama and the corporate media have pushed this race button to the point where tensions are once again brought to the boiling point, which is what they want, so they will have an excuse for more federal interference in local affairs.

Attachment:
1.jpg


Fired.

http://refreshingnews99.blogspot.in/201 ... wrote.html


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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:46 am 
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About the TPP trade deal, now being called "Obamatrade".

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... agreed-to/

This is not how it is supposed to work in our country. Libertarians would never think to act in such a manner, because it is the antithesis of democracy and our Constitution. But, modern "lefties" don't care. They apparently want dictatorial control, so they can rid us of all the "racists" and "bigots", none of whom they will admit exist in their own party.

The reason they have the power to do so is largely because of Republican GW Bush, who signed the USA PATRIOT Act, giving himself and future pResidents unheard of powers so long as war continues, and of course, it will.


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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:00 am 
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A rope leash wrote:
The reason they have the power to do so is largely because of Republican GW Bush, who signed the USA PATRIOT Act, giving himself and future pResidents unheard of powers so long as war continues, and of course, it will.


And would you describe him as a typical "leftie"?


IMO as much as Obama is "left", as he appears to have continued Bush's policies in a "milder" form.

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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:21 am 
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I have said from the start that Obama amounts to the third and fourth terms of GWB. Watching the Republicans jump on the TPP fast-track bandwagon is only further evidence that the Democrats and Repulicans are simply two sides of the same corporate war-profit coin. Elections are just a show, the policies of the two parties are virtually the same when it comes to trade and war.

Republicans are all for the secret TPP deal, and most of them haven't even read it...

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... agreed-to/

According to this link, the new trade agreement includes a rider that will cut medicare to help fund "trade assistance":

http://theinternetpost.net/2015/06/11/o ... ssistance/

If you ask me, Obama is worse than GWB when it comes to war...a killer with drones, practically inventing ISIS, the destruction of Libya, new wars in Yemen and Ukraine, saber rattling at China and Russia.

We need something like the Libertarian Party to become successful, to drive a wedge into the Democrat-Republican War Party.

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/11/iraq_is ... it_anyway/


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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:51 am 
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So why is it that the Klan and other white power hate groups identify themselves as Libertarian? You think acts of lynchings, church bombings, draggings, intimidations and murders are merely exercises in free speech when committed by Libertarian White Supremacist Neo-Nazi groups?

Libertarian is just another term for fascist. Even Disco Boy expressed his admiration for Mussolini's policies, if that tells you something. :P


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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:44 pm 
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Calm down. Lynchings and bombings are crimes that carry severe penalties. That would not change under Libertarian rule.

Did you read the Libertarian Party platform I linked to? Does it say anywhere in there that lynchings and bombings should be legal?

Supremacists of all kinds just want to be free to be who they are. Libertarians are all about individual freedom, so long as it does not infringe on another person's freedom. People should be free to think and believe and say anything they wish, but of course they cannot break a serious law.

I'm sure the SPACEBROTHER forum entity is aware of this logic, but has few straws to grasp for at this point, so it's more of the same old hyperbolic slander they have been trained to spew out when their stance is challenged by superior minds.

Fascism is the joining together of corporate and government powers to lead a nation according to the will of business by establishing a nationalistic fervor. The USA, with all it's bluster about the "homeland" and "patriotism", is pretty much fascist already. Libertarians would like to cut the government back by about 90%, so I fail to see how they are fascists, except in the little minds of the fascists already in office.

What did they say about Mussolini? "At least he made the trains run on time."

Murdered by his own people, anyway, right? Hitler also brought his country back from the brink of starvation and made it into an economic powerhouse. Of course, according to the current Western corporate media dictators, we can't talk about the good things they did. They were evil, evil, evil...but somehow loved by their countrymen?

They were not Libertarians. Libertarian rule would have never given them the power to be fascists.


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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:27 pm 
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Platforms are nothing but words. They can't live up to their platform. They want to put a puppet in the Whitehouse.

Fuck 'em.


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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:36 pm 
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A rope leash wrote:
In the USA, the so-called "left" have held executive power for several years. I don't really think there's all that much difference between the "left" and "right" in this country, it's all just a show for the bread and circuses crowd.
You are only talking about possible US governments, I am talking about the left in whatever form, I am talking about the human race as a whole. All you are talking about is the US and one of it's so called legitimate parties, the Democrats. And I agree they're about as left as right. I'm talking about the left on the outside, that actually can be on the left because it is on the outside. If you can imagine an infinite scale with zero in the middle, leftness pointing left from zero and rightness pointing right from zero, then establishment US has an impassable boundary not very far to the left and a sliding boundary that goes a lot further to the right.

Your problem is that you're embedded in a moment in history.

First think about the revolution from slavery based societies like the Roman Empire to feudalism. This was not a conscious revolution. When the Roman Empire collapsed and the barbarians returned to roost, the entire landscape had been changed radically and their lives did not return to how they'd been before they were forced out. Feudalism evolved out of that. Towards the end of the Roman Empire who would have seen or understood that that was possible? No-one.

Then think about the revolution from feudalism to capitalism. In Britain for example it goes back before the twelfth century when (putting it very loosely) various pressure groups began battling with royalty to have an increased rôle in the running of the country. This led progressively back and forth to an eventual revolution in England under Oliver Cromwell when parliament is finally, fully introduced and the role of royalty reduced to a rubber stamp. Could anyone alive in early seventeenth century Britain have seen that completely freeing themselves from the last vestiges of feudalism would lead to the rapid development possible under capitalism and the eventual explosion of the industrial revolution? No.

Far too many people here are banging on about US politics and swinging it one way or the other within very limited established confines and are just missing the point. In the face of history, we're all pretty insignificant as individuals. How this will eventually sort itself out - if we don't blow ourselves up or poison ourselves to death first - is probably beyond the imagination of anyone alive today.

Edit: Removed last paragraph. Can be read quoted in the following post and in my next post along.

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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:46 pm 
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tweedle-dumb-diane wrote:
Libertarian is just another term for fascist. Even Disco Boy expressed his admiration for Mussolini's policies, if that tells you something. :P


That's NOT what I stated, fuckhead. I said after a certain point in his career, Mussolini adopted free-market principles and applied them to the Italian economy in order to gain public support because he knew that economy would be enhanced. And he was correct. But once he gained that support and control, then did a switcheroo and everything went back to shit. But I NEVER stated that I supported his generally fascist BS...

Do NOT ruin this thread.

It's time to fuck off.

polydigm wrote:
The libertarian belief that a pure idea, the idea of a free market, will be a magic fix of everything that ails the world today is beyond laughable. It's no different in principle than the leap of faith required to believe in a non existent god. By handing yourself over to such an ideal principle you can save yourself the trouble of really having to try and use your imagination and ingenuity to figure out what's going on.


It's perfectly ok if you disagree...but you're not doing a good job of telling us why or how it's laughable. Not only that but you're one of the ones in the, "Capitalism, the way forward or not?", thread a few years back who couldn't admit and/or didn't even think FZ was a Capitalist. So, to be perfectly honest, as of yet, almost nothing you say above holds, especially since you don't understand the Libertarian platform...

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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:09 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
polydigm wrote:
The libertarian belief that a pure idea, the idea of a free market, will be a magic fix of everything that ails the world today is beyond laughable. It's no different in principle than the leap of faith required to believe in a non existent god. By handing yourself over to such an ideal principle you can save yourself the trouble of really having to try and use your imagination and ingenuity to figure out what's going on.
It's perfectly ok if you disagree...but you're not doing a good job of telling us why or how it's laughable.
Quite correct, I'm working on it and I'll get back to this thread with more detail. I was making a completely separate point to the rest of my post with that last paragraph and should have made it in a separate post.

Disco Boy wrote:
Not only that but you're one of the ones in the, "Capitalism, the way forward or not?", thread a few years back who couldn't admit and/or didn't even think FZ was a Capitalist.
Of course he was. I am not a fan of FZ's political leanings.

Disco Boy wrote:
So, to be perfectly honest, as of yet, almost nothing you say above holds, especially since you don't understand the Libertarian platform...
All you've done is make a showy point about my last paragraph and then used that to excuse yourself from addressing the rest of my post. So I'll leave the quote of that paragraph here for context, but I'll go back and delete it from my original post.

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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:11 pm 
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Disco Boy wrote:
you don't understand the Libertarian platform

You don't understand my platform.

Platforms don't work. That's number one.
2. Market demand used to mean something. Now, they can create a demand for any worthless, cheap, overpriced piece of plastic shit they want. They manipulate demand by force feeding children, via the media, worthless crap that suddenly no one can live without. Market demand is just an excuse now. They create demand like they print money.

Fuck 'em.


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 Post subject: Re: The Libertarians
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:34 pm 
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polydigm wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
Not only that but you're one of the ones in the, "Capitalism, the way forward or not?", thread a few years back who couldn't admit and/or didn't even think FZ was a Capitalist.


Of course he was. I am not a fan of FZ's political leanings.


Oh...so NOW you admit it. :roll:

polydigm wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
So, to be perfectly honest, as of yet, almost nothing you say above holds, especially since you don't understand the Libertarian platform...


All you've done is make a showy point about my last paragraph and then used that to excuse yourself from addressing the rest of my post. So I'll leave the quote of that paragraph here for context, but I'll go back and delete it from my original post.


Horse-shit. I've explicitly gone over the details of Libertarianism, Capitalism and related oppositional beliefs/platforms now for 3 years on this forum in a variety of threads. You're fooling no one who's paying attention by stating the above.

downer mydnyte wrote:
Disco Boy wrote:
you don't understand the Libertarian platform

You don't understand my platform.


That's because you've never stated one.

downer mydnyte wrote:
Platforms don't work. That's number one.
2. Market demand used to mean something. Now, they can create a demand for any worthless, cheap, overpriced piece of plastic shit they want. They manipulate demand by force feeding children, via the media, worthless crap that suddenly no one can live without. Market demand is just an excuse now. They create demand like they print money.

Fuck 'em.


ROTFL! :mrgreen:

Your knowledge of the basic laws of supply & demand is so far beyond comical, that we'll need a new word for it...

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